Dr. Doug Matzke, Quantum Computers and Extended Consciousness |487|

#21
I bought the "Deep Reality", and initially enthused over it because here were two hard scientists writing about things like NDE's, altered states of consciousness, etc. However, I have really gone off the book - the best I can say about it is that the cost of the Kindle edition was very cheap! I wrote to Alex first, because I thought perhaps he could see something in the book that I couldn't do. Here is what I wrote to Alex:
I was rather hoping you would shed a bit of light on it all before I went public. This book is meant for a lay audience, and yet neither of us can make much progress with it - it obviously isn't for mathematicians because it doesn't contain any actual equations - so who the hell is it meant for?

To be honest, I suspect the book is not meant to be understood.

The point is I suppose, how can any chunk of math explain qualia on its own? We have endlessly chewed over this conceptual gap. Although he talks about a lot of non-physical concepts, there is no reference to qualia.

Geometric algebra is defined here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_algebra

That doesn't tell me much, but I know there are a series of mathematical structures, of which the simplest is probably the group. A group consists of a finite or infinite number of elements that can be combined by 'multiplication' (only analogous to ordinary multiplication) . Every such multiplication is also a member of the group. A good example is the group of all rotations and reflections of a square. These higher mathematical structures generally have more than one operation - e.g. 'multiplication' and 'addition'.

I think it is clear that a GA is simply a more complicated example of that genre. It can't explain how qualia are created!

The book also contains a lot of references to 'correlithms'. GOOGLE doesn't offer much, except for this:

https://datascience.stackexchange.c...thm-objects-used-for-anything-in-the-industry
Qualia are vital. The pilosopher David Chalmers coined the term, because physicalists need to explain how any chunk of physics (and remember, chemistry and biology are conceptually derived from physics) can cause something to experience anything.

David
 
#24
HA HA MAN! I don't know if quantum is evil or not, but the tooth paste graphic is hilarious!
"Quantum" is not Evil. The term simply means that a thing distills down into specific packets or quantities when measured, instead being analog.

I am so sick of authors slapping the label "quantum !!!" on everything to shield themselves from criticism by Materialists for investigating spooky stuff. It's cowardly

"Quantum" gives them a free pass. It also allows them to posit all manner of absurd B.S. which suddenly becomes immune from criticism because they invoked the anything-goes Quantum!! moniker.

We wind up with this, page after page of this B.S. being legitimized...

https://www.gaia.com/search?q=quantum


 

Alex

Administrator
#25
I bought the "Deep Reality", and initially enthused over it because here were two hard scientists writing about things like NDE's, altered states of consciousness, etc. However, I have really gone off the book - the best I can say about it is that the cost of the Kindle edition was very cheap! I wrote to Alex first, because I thought perhaps he could see something in the book that I couldn't do. Here is what I wrote to Alex:


Qualia are vital. The pilosopher David Chalmers coined the term, because physicalists need to explain how any chunk of physics (and remember, chemistry and biology are conceptually derived from physics) can cause something to experience anything.

David
I think he was going there with this... but I'll see if he'd be willing to join the convo:
Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:29:53] Yeah absolutely, yeah and imagine I mean, my instinct for going and working on my PHD was, what if we could take any algorithm and parallelize it and speed it up using quantum computing, right? And the question is, is that what we’re doing with our mind anyhow? You know and so we only have a limited sense of what algorithms actually speed up. But Gosh, if you’re cheating and you have this infinite dimensional hyperspace that you have tapped into, then and essentially you it’s think of it as both computing and memory. I mean think of it as a computing a simulator big enough to run the entire physical universe in. That’s a pretty powerful computing paradigm and it’s really there because otherwise quantum computing wouldn’t work and quantum computing is the basis of all our physics, including the Big Bang and black holes and everything else. So it’s there, how do we tap into it is the big question.
 

Alex

Administrator
#26
"Quantum" is not Evil. The term simply means that a thing distills down into specific packets or quantities when measured, instead being analog.

I am so sick of authors slapping the label "quantum !!!" on everything to shield themselves from criticism by Materialists for investigating spooky stuff. It's cowardly

"Quantum" gives them a free pass. It also allows them to posit all manner of absurd B.S. which suddenly becomes immune from criticism because they invoked the anything-goes Quantum!! moniker.

We wind up with this, page after page of this B.S. being legitimized...

https://www.gaia.com/search?q=quantum

great one! Yes, I'd like to see if Doug can debunk this fake quantum stuff.
 
#27
The real story may even involve a God, but as I see it, it simply cannot simply be 'standard' Christianity - though to be fair, I am not sure Garry is a 'standard' Christian.

David
You are quite correct, David. There is much about "standard" Christianity I'm not compliant with. I do believe Jesus existed and that he was Jewish. I believe he was sent by The Great Father Spirit otherwise known as God of the Old Testament to live among his Jewish people and to teach them to be less attached to this hard, painful, dangerous, disease infested World. To teach them about a world where everything is perfect all the time; a World created by the same God of the Old Testament that they had already believed in. But then, even though he performed many miracles of healing and providence, telling his followers, "These things and more shall ye do." he went a step too far and proclaimed that he and God are one; that he was also God. This was too much for his people and so they wanted him put to death by crucifixion.

Regarding worship, Jesus merely asked that we believe in him and abide by his sayings (instructions) St. Peter asked, "How should we pray?" And Jesus answered him and began that miracle causing prayer we are all familiar with, "Our Father, who art in Heaven..." I don't think I've read anywhere that he personally demanded worship from us. Adherence to His sayings in the Gospels are very important. He said, "Call ye no man on Earth, "Father" Ye have only one Father and He is in Heaven." The Roman Catholic church disobeyed Jesus when they insisted we call their priests, "Father" Combine this with that darned confessional that Jesus never asked for and you soon understand all the problems now facing that denomination.

I believe Jesus did leave us each with a lifelong comforter and protector we refer to as Guardian Angel or Holy Spirit provided we abide by his instructions, especially in our treatment of others. However, this Angel will flee us if we choose instead the dark side of selfish apathy in our behavior toward our brothers and sisters under God. Let me conclude by saying this is only my form of being Christian. We are each entitled to our own or none if we prefer. ~g
 
#28
You are quite correct, David. There is much about "standard" Christianity I'm not compliant with. I do believe Jesus existed and that he was Jewish. I believe he was sent by The Great Father Spirit otherwise known as God of the Old Testament to live among his Jewish people and to teach them to be less attached to this hard, painful, dangerous, disease infested World. To teach them about a world where everything is perfect all the time; a World created by the same God of the Old Testament that they had already believed in. But then, even though he performed many miracles of healing and providence, telling his followers, "These things and more shall ye do." he went a step too far and proclaimed that he and God are one; that he was also God. This was too much for his people and so they wanted him put to death by crucifixion.

Regarding worship, Jesus merely asked that we believe in him and abide by his sayings (instructions) St. Peter asked, "How should we pray?" And Jesus answered him and began that miracle causing prayer we are all familiar with, "Our Father, who art in Heaven..." I don't think I've read anywhere that he personally demanded worship from us. Adherence to His sayings in the Gospels are very important. He said, "Call ye no man on Earth, "Father" Ye have only one Father and He is in Heaven." The Roman Catholic church disobeyed Jesus when they insisted we call their priests, "Father" Combine this with that darned confessional that Jesus never asked for and you soon understand all the problems now facing that denomination.

I believe Jesus did leave us each with a lifelong comforter and protector we refer to as Guardian Angel or Holy Spirit provided we abide by his instructions, especially in our treatment of others. However, this Angel will flee us if we choose instead the dark side of selfish apathy in our behavior toward our brothers and sisters under God. Let me conclude by saying this is only my form of being Christian. We are each entitled to our own or none if we prefer. ~g
For me, Christianity is nonsense. I know that sounds disrespectful, but I find it funny how we are expected to have reverence for a "belief system" just because many, many people believe in it. This is a belief that has perpetuated from one part of the world; the middle east. There are many other belief systems, especially from the same region, that are just as much nonsense, but don't have the same traction. That being said, just because one mode of nonsense gathers the most traction doesn't make it more true than any other mode of nonsense. Furthermore, if somebody is steadfast in their belief of nonsense, that doesn't make their nonsense any more true.
 
#29
"Quantum" is not Evil. The term simply means that a thing distills down into specific packets or quantities when measured, instead being analog.

I am so sick of authors slapping the label "quantum !!!" on everything to shield themselves from criticism by Materialists for investigating spooky stuff. It's cowardly

"Quantum" gives them a free pass. It also allows them to posit all manner of absurd B.S. which suddenly becomes immune from criticism because they invoked the anything-goes Quantum!! moniker.

We wind up with this, page after page of this B.S. being legitimized...

https://www.gaia.com/search?q=quantum

I am pretty sure you are right about things being legitimized that are absolute nonsense, especially because they bring in government grants and so forth. Also, nonsense sells! Also, I am speculative about a popularity contest involving PhD certified lickspittles who are paid to spin our minds for government money. We must keep our bullshit meter charged, or at least use the right batteries.
 
#30
Absolutely!

I don't think the standard Christian story makes sense. I was a Christian until I went to university, and got in with a crowd known as the "God Squad". They took the Bible really seriously and particularly the idea that not only did Jesus die for our sins, but a just God could have it no other way!

I realised afterwards, that most churches - such as the ones I attended as a boy - fudge over the awkward bits of the Bible.

The real story may even involve a God, but as I see it, it simply cannot simply be 'standard' Christianity - though to be fair, I am not sure Garry is a 'standard' Christian.

David
The standard Christian story is nonsense, and people have to have the guts to say it is so. I grew up as a Christian, and secretly hated the entire belief system throughout my childhood. The people that create these belief systems are all about collecting money and popularity. That is the harsh truth. Anybody that has an inquisitive mind will not persist in such systems.
 
#31
I want to discuss this "double slit" experiment. How is it possible that we know a single electron was going through both slits, at the same time, as a wave? First of all, it is admitted that we cannot measure or quantify a single electron, so how do you know that it went through both slits, at the same time, as a single electron?
 
#32
if somebody is steadfast in their belief of nonsense, that doesn't make their nonsense any more true.
Very well, Shane. I guess it is then by my steadfast belief in Nonsense that I am obtaining desired, often impossible results. Henceforth I could refer to my God respectfully as Nonsense. It is this among many other names such as Yahweh or Jehovah. Important only is that I am addressing a Great Conscious Entity from which I came and desire to return at life's end. Meanwhile I will remain in contact through prayer. Difficult situations may arise. By the way, have you read this story?
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1star_e_nde.html
 
#33
I want to discuss this "double slit" experiment. How is it possible that we know a single electron was going through both slits, at the same time, as a wave? First of all, it is admitted that we cannot measure or quantify a single electron, so how do you know that it went through both slits, at the same time, as a single electron?
I think it has been done with both photons and electrons. The answer is you attenuate the beam so much that the particles are well separated. Obviously it takes a while before the pattern builds up!

Actually, if the result were not the way it is - i.e. single electrons could not interfere with themselves - , the whole of QM and the Schroedinger wave equation would be blown to bits!

David
 
#34
Very well, Shane. I guess it is then by my steadfast belief in Nonsense that I am obtaining desired, often impossible results. Henceforth I could refer to my God respectfully as Nonsense. It is this among many other names such as Yahweh or Jehovah. Important only is that I am addressing a Great Conscious Entity from which I came and desire to return at life's end. Meanwhile I will remain in contact through prayer. Difficult situations may arise. By the way, have you read this story?
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1star_e_nde.html
I will read it now bud, and get back to you.
 
#35
he went a step too far and proclaimed that he and God are one; that he was also God. This was too much for his people and so they wanted him put to death by crucifixion.
Saying "I and my father are one" doesn't necessarily mean Jesus is saying he is God. By analogy, one can say an alter is one with the individual affected by Dissociated Identity Disorder, but that's not the same as being identical to that individual. It's more that an alter is but one aspect of that individual, with a certain amount of apparent autonomy.

Likewise, not only Jesus, but each and every one of us could be taken to represent a "dissociated" aspect of Mind At Large/"God". Maybe Jesus (and many another like him throughout the ages) was more aware of his true nature than most, but that could be taken as more a matter of degree than anything.

It's said by Hindus that Brahman and Atman are one and the same, and maybe that's another way of saying what Jesus said. Even in popular culture, there are hints of this, as in this song:


Or this one:


Note the lyrics about half way through:

See that man on the street?
He's a human too
If you can look without your eyes
All you'll see is you

If each of us is an "alter" of MAL, we're all aspects of the One. And once we recognise that, love becomes obvious, a necessity, because harming apparent others is obviously only harming ourselves.
 
#36
"Quantum" is not Evil. The term simply means that a thing distills down into specific packets or quantities when measured, instead being analog.

I am so sick of authors slapping the label "quantum !!!" on everything to shield themselves from criticism by Materialists for investigating spooky stuff. It's cowardly

"Quantum" gives them a free pass. It also allows them to posit all manner of absurd B.S. which suddenly becomes immune from criticism because they invoked the anything-goes Quantum!! moniker.

We wind up with this, page after page of this B.S. being legitimized...
So just to be clear, are you advising me to listen to the 12 episodes of Haramein's stuff, or not? He seems too interested in collecting money for my liking.

David
 
#37
I think he was going there with this... but I'll see if he'd be willing to join the convo:
Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:29:53] Yeah absolutely, yeah and imagine I mean, my instinct for going and working on my PHD was, what if we could take any algorithm and parallelize it and speed it up using quantum computing, right? And the question is, is that what we’re doing with our mind anyhow? You know and so we only have a limited sense of what algorithms actually speed up. But Gosh, if you’re cheating and you have this infinite dimensional hyperspace that you have tapped into, then and essentially you it’s think of it as both computing and memory. I mean think of it as a computing a simulator big enough to run the entire physical universe in. That’s a pretty powerful computing paradigm and it’s really there because otherwise quantum computing wouldn’t work and quantum computing is the basis of all our physics, including the Big Bang and black holes and everything else. So it’s there, how do we tap into it is the big question.
My point is that Chalmers clearly worked to come out with the idea of qualia. It is a great idea, and it is the crucial question - what generates an actual experience - and it is pretty obvious that you can computer like crazy and that can only be of any use at all if it is coupled with something else that actually causes the experience.

David
 
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