Dr. Jacques Vallée’s Diaries Reveal What Most Scientists Still Deny |359|

#42
"UFOs do seem to be incursions into, rather than inhabitants of, the status quo.'

Status quo is a chauvinistic rhetorical device. It gives an arbitrary sense of importance to the speaker's frame of reference.

One can just as easily say, "A pipette is an incursion into, rather than an inhabitant of a laboratory flask."

And according to many accounts of alien experiencers, and NDE experiencers, humanity is more rightly understood as living in a laboratory flask than living in the center of the universe.
 
#43
Would have liked more on his views of consciousness, as Vallee was the first to question the materialistic paradigm that it is obviously a physical solid universe with physical ETs and ships. but a good interview.
I think what makes Vallee's work unique is that he is trying to examine the connection between material and spiritual reality. Some people see UFOs as a physical phenomenon. Others assume that such experiences are purely spiritual, and therefore completely non-physical in nature. But UFO's appear to bridge both the physical and non-physical. I think other types of anomalous experiences (physical mediumship, apports) can also bridge that gap.

I'm surprised that no one else has commented on the importance of analyzing these fragments of material that somehow bridge both physical and non-physical reality.
 
#44
And according to many accounts of alien experiencers, and NDE experiencers, humanity is more rightly understood as living in a laboratory flask than living in the center of the universe.
As of yet, neither the consciousness angle nor the ETH can by itself explain what is happening. Couldn't find it now, but I saw a interesting video recently by Neil DeGrasse Tyson in which he posits that a sufficiently advanced civilization would be capable of completely enslaving us without our knowledge. We could very well be an ant farm on someone's "shelf". Our premier physicists are edging towards Gnosticism.
 
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#45
As of yet, neither the consciousness angle nor the ETH can by itself explain what is happening. Couldn't find it now, but I saw a interesting video recently by Neil DeGrasse Tyson in which he posits that a sufficiently advanced civilization would be capable of completely enslaving us without our knowledge. We could very well be an ant farm on someone's "shelf". Our premier physicists are edging towards Gnosticism.
Maybe, but what the hell would be the point? The only conceivable 'product' they could 'harvest' from us, would be something related to our consciousness, and that is a direction that NDGT definitely doesn't want to go!

We tend to use the TV analogy when talking about consciousness, but the problem with that analogy is that it is one directional - there is no interaction. The link between our consciousness and the physical world is clearly bi-directional. If we imagine that the brain can become de-tuned and connect to other conscious interactions, maybe that gets closer to the feel of UFO abduction accounts? The fact that these beings interact with us (i.e. the communication is inherently bi-directional) , fools us into not realising that what has gone on, is more like listening to an analog radio station, and hearing another one breaking in from time to time.

Conceivably our signals are getting tangled with those of another plane where the various 'experiments' that get performed on abductees, make some sense.

It is comforting to assume that everything non-physical is done for a good reason, but in truth, the links between us and the non-physical realm may be a bit flaky. That might explain why NDE's often contain suggestions of a 'mistake' - someone out there has to say "stop - it isn't your time!"

David
 
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#46
Status quo is a chauvinistic rhetorical device. It gives an arbitrary sense of importance to the speaker's frame of reference.
The status-quo I was referring to was consensus reality as mentioned by Alex. I'm not sure how the term counts as chauvinistic.... rhetorically or otherwise. And since humanity's only real reference is it's own perspective, then we kinda are at the centre of the universe.... from our own vantage point, anyway.

Also, If I came across as a little sarcastic with my comment on cultural Marxism, then I apologize.

All the best.
 
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#47
The status-quo I was referring to was consensus reality as mentioned by Alex. I'm not sure how the term counts as chauvinistic.... rhetorically or otherwise. And since humanity's only real reference is it's own perspective, then we kinda are at the centre of the universe.... from our own vantage point, anyway.

Also, If I came across as a little sarcastic with my comment on cultural Marxism, then I apologize.

All the best.
Completely agree. All the stuff about lab rats in a maze on someone's shelf is Twilight Zone pulp materialism. First we'd have no way of knowing so the scenario is irrelevant to the human condition, second, it negatively distorts the human experience which is capable of the highest artistic, emotional and scientific achievements as well as the worst possible conduct. Thirdly it plays to the idea that off world species are subject to the most cynical aspects of human nature and would necessarily view humanity as an ant farm.

UFOs occupy a similar plane to bigfoot and phantom black dogs, drifting into our literal and metaphorical radar screens without ever becoming tangible enough to get a handle on. I discern no plan so like David I put it down to cosmic flakiness. As someone who thinks we're 100% consciousness anyway, a glitch in the works is unsurprising. When they decide to say hello I'll take them seriously, until then they're the misplaced light show from a rock act.
 
#48
As of yet, neither the consciousness angle nor the ETH can by itself explain what is happening. Couldn't find it now, but I saw a interesting video recently by Neil DeGrasse Tyson in which he posits that a sufficiently advanced civilization would be capable of completely enslaving us without our knowledge. We could very well be an ant farm on someone's "shelf". Our premier physicists are edging towards Gnosticism.
I found this by him (2016) ... “I fear the day we come upon a species such as that. Maybe I don’t fear it, I just hope that all they would do for us is create a zoo where we are happy. And maybe that is what they call Earth.”
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-alien-life

Then his recent take on UFOs (C-Span 2017) ... “What the UFO community puts forth as evidence is weak on a level that, in any scientific circle, would be kicked out of the lab room.”
https://futurism.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-says-not-likely-alone-universe/

He also isn't impressed by military pilot sightings.

So he's quite ignorant of the work being carried out by Dr. Vallee and others and the whole history of the subject and gives some rather silly suggestions.
 
#49
The status-quo I was referring to was consensus reality as mentioned by Alex. I'm not sure how the term counts as chauvinistic.... rhetorically or otherwise. And since humanity's only real reference is it's own perspective, then we kinda are at the centre of the universe.... from our own vantage point, anyway.

Also, If I came across as a little sarcastic with my comment on cultural Marxism, then I apologize.

All the best.

People think humanity is the center of the universe and we are not. People think the aliens are a small side show influencing humanity but there are probably many many more aliens than humans in the galaxy. It is we, a primitive, violent, untrustworthy, warlike species who are a threat to the peace and stability of the galaxy not the other way around.

The true status quo is the status quo of the galaxy not the petty primitive state of human affairs.
 
#51
UFOs occupy a similar plane to bigfoot and phantom black dogs, drifting into our literal and metaphorical radar screens without ever becoming tangible enough to get a handle on. I discern no plan so like David I put it down to cosmic flakiness. As someone who thinks we're 100% consciousness anyway, a glitch in the works is unsurprising. When they decide to say hello I'll take them seriously, until then they're the misplaced light show from a rock act.
I disagree in that that utterly clear sightings occur, e.g. the Nash-Fortenberry pilot's case of 1952 or the Beligum sightings of 1989-1990. If someone is involved at the level of proper investigation for both of these cases it's easy to conclude a non-human intelligence is involved. But maybe for such UFOs as these, for example, to "occupy a similar plane to bigfoot and phantom black dogs" comes about from the spin and perhaps deliberate confusion given to such shocking sightings by some.

Just as an aside Dr. Vallee's Forbidden Science is fascinating. The one I have from a while back is 1957-1969 ...

https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Sc...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B011SKH4UO

so now I'm looking forward to reading the others. Wonderful to hear this interview.
 
#52
I disagree in that that utterly clear sightings occur, e.g. the Nash-Fortenberry pilot's case of 1952 or the Beligum sightings of 1989-1990. If someone is involved at the level of proper investigation for both of these cases it's easy to conclude a non-human intelligence is involved. But maybe for such UFOs as these, for example, to "occupy a similar plane to bigfoot and phantom black dogs" comes about from the spin and perhaps deliberate confusion given to such shocking sightings by some.

Just as an aside Dr. Vallee's Forbidden Science is fascinating. The one I have from a while back is 1957-1969 ...

https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Science-Journals-1957-1969-Paperback/dp/B011SKH4UO?SubscriptionId=AKIAJRRWTH346WSPOAFQ&tag=prabook0b-20&linkCode=sp1&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B011SKH4UO

so now I'm looking forward to reading the others. Wonderful to hear this interview.
I'm not doubting the phenomenon, I'm saying none stick around, and in that way UFOs are no different from Bigfoot. Something that plays peek-a-boo with its hot rods is less important than filing a tax return. Why does it have to be spacemen anyway?
 
#53
I'm not doubting the phenomenon, I'm saying none stick around, and in that way UFOs are no different from Bigfoot. Something that plays peek-a-boo with its hot rods is less important than filing a tax return. Why does it have to be spacemen anyway?
I disagree again in that some do "stick around". Being polite, how can you say possible alien visitation is less important than a tax return? Sure, it's important to me I do mine but the tax return has zero meaning in the greater scheme of visitation.
 
#54
I disagree again in that some do "stick around". Being polite, how can you say possible alien visitation is less important than a tax return? Sure, it's important to me I do mine but the tax return has zero meaning in the greater scheme of visitation.
The UFO phenomenon is problematic on a number of levels. Most of the theories suggest a material explanation, with a majority coming down on the side of other beings from somewhere in space. If that's the case those beings have every opportunity to introduce themselves. If they're technologically advanced they have the ability to remain hidden, but reveal themselves in random ways that make no sense. They don't appear to be warlike but restrict themselves to gathering organic data. They didn't intervene in Hiroshima or the death camps of Belsen, so are not concerned with the enlightenment of humanity morally or technologically. They could introduce themselves in ways we could comprehend, but apart from people who are into UFO lore and the small number of percipients, for the majority of humanity UFOs may as well not exist. Hence the tax return point. I can ignore the tax man and my existence would be negatively transformed in ways I can measure. I can ignore UFOs and the theories that surround them without any difference to my daily life.

As someone who believes the evidence that we are an intuitive, psychically attuned entities is better than the evidence for our being biological robots, I find the assumption that UFOs and their occupants are wholly material phenomena unsatisfactory. They seem to mimic human projections of what an alien is and how he should travel, evolving through flying discs, blimp like mother ships, to things that closely resemble the latest Hollywood effects. It's as though they are a reflection of human aspirations and neurosis as much as an actual thing. Until they manifest as something more than a human mirror, promoting uncertainty and hope in material remedies, I think it's safe to ignore the phenomenon and rely on our own endeavours. They may be us in ways we yet fail to understand.
 
#55
The UFO phenomenon is problematic on a number of levels. Most of the theories suggest a material explanation, with a majority coming down on the side of other beings from somewhere in space. If that's the case those beings have every opportunity to introduce themselves. If they're technologically advanced they have the ability to remain hidden, but reveal themselves in random ways that make no sense. They don't appear to be warlike but restrict themselves to gathering organic data. They didn't intervene in Hiroshima or the death camps of Belsen, so are not concerned with the enlightenment of humanity morally or technologically. They could introduce themselves in ways we could comprehend, but apart from people who are into UFO lore and the small number of percipients, for the majority of humanity UFOs may as well not exist. Hence the tax return point. I can ignore the tax man and my existence would be negatively transformed in ways I can measure. I can ignore UFOs and the theories that surround them without any difference to my daily life.

As someone who believes the evidence that we are an intuitive, psychically attuned entities is better than the evidence for our being biological robots, I find the assumption that UFOs and their occupants are wholly material phenomena unsatisfactory. They seem to mimic human projections of what an alien is and how he should travel, evolving through flying discs, blimp like mother ships, to things that closely resemble the latest Hollywood effects. It's as though they are a reflection of human aspirations and neurosis as much as an actual thing. Until they manifest as something more than a human mirror, promoting uncertainty and hope in material remedies, I think it's safe to ignore the phenomenon and rely on our own endeavours. They may be us in ways we yet fail to understand.
Ok, I see where you're coming from now.
 
#56
People think humanity is the center of the universe and we are not. People think the aliens are a small side show influencing humanity but there are probably many many more aliens than humans in the galaxy ... The true status quo is the status quo of the galaxy not the petty primitive state of human affairs.
Probably, but we still can't escape our own perspective. Y'know, like, to a cricket the universe will always seem, um, crickety.

Edit: But I don't want to suggest that crickets aren't capable of profound insight!
 
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#57
Part of the reason I believe UFOs are far stranger than either a materialist or purely psychological explanation can convey is from personal experience....

Years ago, I, and two others, got the opportunity to observe what could only be described as a UFO kite wending it's way at a leisurely pace through the sky.

I say 'UFO kite' because it did have the broad appearance of a 4-6m kite: An elongated diamond with trailing streamers. But it also appeared 3 dimensional with top and bottom ridges and had a dull-black leathery appearance. The streamers languidly undulated in the wind while looking distinctly solid and tube/tentacle-like. A shining/glistening thread pointed straight up into the sky from the kite's tip (it sometimes appeared to point directly ahead).

My initial assumption, upon seeing it slowly rise up from an obscured valley-floor, was that it was a kite.

But, apart from not looking like a kite, it didn't react in any way to the wind and kept a steady flight path over hills/valleys/trees without changing its orientation in any way and staying nearly horizontal. After gliding past our vantage point, it descended towards the face of a distant hillside.... spending about five minutes tracking back and forth, up and down the hill's steep face before rising almost vertically into the air and disappearing slowly out of sight.... strange behavior for a kite.

To me, it appeared organic and had the feel of animal sentience to it, but I can say why. The other witnesses agree.

Anyway, very weird and hard to get my head around.

P.S. At it's closest it was about 30-40 feet away.
P.P.S. Later, I was interested to learn that Kalahari Bushmen in Southern Africa claim to ascend a shining thread to the spirit realm during trance.
 
#58
Until they manifest as something more than a human mirror, promoting uncertainty and hope in material remedies, I think it's safe to ignore the phenomenon and rely on our own endeavours. They may be us in ways we yet fail to understand.
That is a bit risky because human ideas about aliens may be determined from actual sightings down through history.

David
 
#59
There are different groups of aliens visiting us, but suppose you are a friendly alien and you discovered a planet and you found it was governed like this:

Once you give a government agency the power to decide what should be kept secret, you have given them a tool they can use to usurp power and human nature will never let them give up that power. The power to classify information has given the intelligence agencies the power to do whatever they want and they have used that power to take over the government: They can classify anything they choose so no one can find out what they are doing or question the need for their activities or secrecy. They gain influence over defense contractors by awarding government contracts. The money from those contracts, which comes from the tax payers - you and me, is then used to get control over the government through campaign donations by the defense contractors to politicians and through job offers for retired politicians and aides. After the intelligence agencies commit a few crimes they realize they can never give up power or they will be prosecuted and they then commit more crimes protecting themselves (killing, intimidating, financially ruining, smearing the character of whistle blowers and anyone who opposes them or their projects) and because once you are committed to a pattern of crime and have no risk of punishment, there is no incentive to limit yourself to legal means.
What would be the point of trying to intereact with the government - they not in control.

What would be the point of trying to interact with the sociopaths who are really running things? They don't represent the people and they are not trustworthy. You wouldn't want them to get their hands on your technology.

You couldn't appear openly because you would be attacked because you would be a threat to the authority of the rulers.

Maybe you would contact selected individuals and try to communicate to the people directly to let them know there are other intelligent beings in the universe. If your intelligence was vastly different from human intelligence, and you had vastly superior technology, that contact might be hard for humans to interpret.
 
#60
This is a favourite of mine. I have posted it several times before but this seemed the perfect time to post it again.


It is very interesting because he touches on synchronicity as well which is of special interest to me.

So, then, what do I think about the interview?
- I think Vallee is great. He makes a great point that there are many things that can be done. Few do these things but remain in their armchairs instead.
- The isotope thing is VERY interesting. This was new to me.
 
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