Dr. Jacques Vallée’s Diaries Reveal What Most Scientists Still Deny |359|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    A 3-parter from Linda Moulton Howe & Annie Jacobsen, author: PHENOMENA: The Secret History of the U. S. Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception (ESP) and Psychokinesis (PK), Re: Hal Puthoff and Government ESP studies.
     
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  2. K9!

    K9! New

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    This kind of deserves it's own thread. I found it fascinating that her story about the death of Pat Price and his connection to Scientology confirmed what Ed May had told Alex in a previous podcast, and Jacobson's source was Jacques Vallee.
     
  3. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    If you want something else to chew on, I thought this was a pretty good chat about the kind of stuff we talk about. The guys from Astonishing Legends and Richard Hatem, script writer for The Mothman Prophesies. Vallee gets mentioned again, of course, but it's like I'm hearing Vallee's name come from all over all of a sudden.
     
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  4. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

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    Thank you! I couldn't recall where I had first heard this. If half of the things reported in the book "Hunt for the Skinwalker" are accurate and Vallee was there while they were happening, then he may have witnessed some very high strangeness indeed. The question remains however: who or what was behind the phenomena that occurred there? One of the things I like about Jacques is that he repeatedly makes a point of the fact that humans from various institutions/agencies have been involved in deliberate hoaxes of paranormal phenomena for a variety of reasons but at the heart of them is a desire to affect an individual's belief system, presumably to further some covert agenda. To be fair he attributes this same desire to whatever is behind the actual phenomena also but one can assume the agendas would differ depending on the source and who would benefit. Personally, something has always felt a little off to me about Skinwalker Ranch. It's almost like there was too much happening both in terms of frequency and variety of phenomena. What it felt like to me, and this was based on reading the previously mentioned book, was a testing ground or a controlled experiment. Vallee, as an open-minded but healthy skeptic and scientist familiar with leading edge science and technology, would be the mark, as well as the other personnel within the NIDS Scientific Advisory Board, in this con. The underlying belief being: if we can fool Vallee and these other experts we're almost ready for prime-time viewing. I know my paranoid is showing here but that's because I'm slightly paranoid :)

    On the other hand it could be an entirely legitimate phenomena but either way if Vallee was there you can bet he signed an NDA and took copious notes.
     
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  5. K9!

    K9! New

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  6. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I'll have to check this out... I thought the name "Annie Jacobsen" sounded familiar, then looked at the book on my nightstand and realized she wrote it: "The Pentagon's Brain." I'm about halfway through it. Great book with a lot of interesting history.
     
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  7. K9!

    K9! New

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    When I listened to the Skeptiko Vallee interview a second time, I noticed that Vallee does mention the book Phenomenon, and says that it's an interesting book but that it isn't completely accurate.
     
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  8. Trancestate

    Trancestate Member

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    Robert McLuhan's post about Jacobsen's Phenomena contains more criticisms of the book:

    http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2017/04/annie-jacobsens-phenomena.html

    First, McLuhan aptly summarizes Targ and May's criticisms (emphasis mine):
    ...
    Oddly, that’s a concern to some of the key people involved in it, who to judge by their reviews on Amazon are pretty disgusted with the book. They complain that it’s full of errors, ignores the science behind the program, and presents a ‘distorted and selective’ view of it – Russell Targ’s words, and he can claim to know what he’s talking about, since he and Hal Puthoff set the whole thing off with their early work with Pat Price. Jacobsen hardly mentions him, and instead gives the impression that the man behind it was Andrija Puharich, who had a lot to do with popularising Uri Geller, but nothing to do with remote viewing research. The driving force, arguably, was Edwin May, the nuclear physicist/parapsychologist who ran the scientific side of the program for ten years. Yet apparently he’s hardly mentioned either. Jacobsen also exaggerates the role of Uri Geller, and elevates other peripheral, largely unknown figures to central roles.​

    McLuhan goes on to cite Ben Goertzel:

    Having participated in discussions of the project with Ed May, Joe McMoneagle, Russell Targ and others who were directly involved with it over a long period of time, I can tell you that the story as Jacobsen tells it, is not the story as they tell it. So something is wrong here. This book is a well-crafted sensationalist half-truth, rather than any sort of definitive history. A shame, as the experiments done and results obtained in Star Gate are important stuff for everyone to understand and think about. (For one thing, the Star Gate project described here showed that psychic remote viewing can really work, if done with the right people. Wow. This is a dramatic sort of discovery, and a piece of history that very much deserves to be recounted accurately as well as artfully.)
    McLuhan then cites a particularly serious criticism from Ed May's research collaborator and co-author, Sonali Marwaha:

    ...perpetuates the myth of psi research as a fringe “woo-woo” science, and does great disservice to the science of psi, and the serious psi researchers from a variety of academic disciplines, who have made substantial progress in understanding the phenomenon.
    McLuhan rounds out the post with an interesting discourse on the incredible amount of time (three-plus years) he spent researching and writing his book, Randi's Prize, comparing that to the less than one year Jacobsen spent on Phenomena.

    After having read many well-written critical reviews of all her popular books, my impression of Annie Jacobsen is one of a sloppy researcher with a pronounced tendency toward superficial and sensational treatment of the topics she's covered.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  9. north

    north Member

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    http://dailygrail.com/Essays/2017/9...d-Flying-Objects-UAMs-Unidentified-Alchemical
     
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  10. Virginian

    Virginian New

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    Okay, besides that stuff, can you point to ANY academic references supporting Geller's psi abilities? ; -)
     
  11. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Reminds me of the Life of Brian ... "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"




     
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  12. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

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    I know it's been a while since this episode but I was just listening to another recent interview with Jacques Vallee and he talked quite a bit about Skinwalker Ranch. Here's a link to the interview where he begins to speak about it:



    Additionally, he mentioned two books related to possible covert uses of high technology that look interesting:

    Chameleo: A Strange But True Story of Invisible Spies, Heroin Addiction, and National Security by Robert Guffey
    https://www.amazon.com/Chameleo-Invisible-Addiction-Homeland-Security/dp/1522608214

    No Return: The Gerry Irwin Story, UFO Abduction or Covert Operation? by David Booher
    https://www.amazon.com/NO-RETURN-Abduction-Covert-Operation/dp/193839884X

    Cheers!
     
  13. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx. he also did an excellent interview here:
    http://www.grimerica.ca/episodes/ep241/
     
  14. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

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    Yes, that was a good one!

    Also, I've been reading the first book I linked to in my previous post and I'm more than a bit befuddled as to why JV, a researcher who cites sources meticulously in his books, decided to endorse it. It reads more like a poorly written journal and falls short of substantiating much of anything. There are some citations and photographs but these alone don't prove much of anything and, given the claims the author makes, substantiating proof is a definite prerequisite.

    JV is one of my heroes when it comes to the UFO topic precisely because he is so exacting in his approach to the phenomena. Although I'm reluctant to admit it his status has taken a bit of a hit in my mind based on the endorsement of this book. I'll keep reading in the hope that maybe it will improve but, ugh...
     
  15. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Thanks for sharing this. For some reason I first bookmarked the youtube of "The Telepathy Story" months ago, back in May of this year, but only just got around to watching it.

    As I watched it, it triggered a memory of a trivial incident which happened to me just yesterday.

    I was in a large shop, waiting at the check-out to pay for some item I was buying. These days I usually try to treat everyone I meet with sincerity, as a real person, so I usually am thinking to myself something like "remember to say thank you". By that I mean I always say 'thank you', but the emphasis is on trying to establish some real person-to-person contact as I say it.

    For some reason yesterday as I was waiting for the transaction to process, I was thinking, "remember to wish the guy a good rest of the day". As he handed me the till receipt, he looked me in the eye and said, "I hope the rest of your day goes well". Now this is the UK. Such greetings are not usual, it is more normal to have grumpy, "thank you" and that's all. I was so surprised I could barely respond, I just mumbled a thank you and left in a daze.

    I realised as I walked away that when I thought I was reminding myself of what to say, it was the other person reminding himself of what to say.

    Still, I shouldn't really be surprised, I do take telepathy as a routine matter, have done for decades, but sometimes it catches me unawares a bit.
     
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