Dr. Michael Shermer on Near-Death Experience Science |379|

No matter who we are and where we come from out shared point of reference is this forum. Personally I find it humbling to read of the depth and diversity of thought and sentiment that is expressed here. It is also extraordinary to me that a community of strangers can craft a shared conversation that stimulating and valued as a source of inspiration and reflection.
Agree. I've grown quite fond of the forum. There are a number of brilliant people here which I have learned from. You are one of them. I wish Alex was more involved with our conversations.
 
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Radish,

I have taken the written version of your first link so we can think about it here:
Nancy: And be there now in that other time that other place, and take a look around and notice are you inside or outside?

Melissa: Outside.

Nancy: And what’s the environment outside?

Melissa: Snow.

Nancy: It’s snow.

Melissa: Mountains.

Nancy: Mountains.

Melissa: Rocky.

Nancy: And are you in the mountains or the mountains are distance off?

Melissa: In the mountains.

Nancy: You’re in the mountains yes, and notice how you’re dressed to be here in the snowy mountains.

Melissa: Furs. Furs.

Nancy: You’ve got furs and noticing are you male or female?

Melissa: Male.

Nancy: You’re male, and at the count of three, you’re going to know your age. One, two, three and how old are you there?

Melissa: Fifteen.

Nancy: Fifteen, and now at the count of three you’re going to know your name, your name will simply come to mind. One, two, three and what’s your name? What are you called?

Melissa: Jesse.

Nancy: Jesse and Jesse, tell me about yourself what kind of a young man are you?

Melissa: Strong.

Nancy: You’re strong, and how are you strong in what ways?

Melissa: Physically strong.

Nancy: Physical strong, yeah, and what is it that you do that made you so physically strong?

Melissa: Climbing, working, hunting.

Nancy: Yes, and what is it that you’re doing out here today in the snow?

Melissa: Climbing.

Nancy: What are you climbing for?

Melissa: The view.

Nancy: Yes, so what’s special about the view?

Melissa: I can see everything.

Nancy: Yeah. And what’s that like to be able to see everything?

Melissa: It’s beautiful.

Nancy: Yeah. And why do you see as you’re out there, as you’re up reaching where you’re going, and you look out what’s the best out there?

Melissa: Sky, clouds, mountains, trees, water.

Nancy: Yes. And do you climb here often?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and what is it about being here and seeing everything that’s so special? Why’s this meaningfully to you to be able to see everything?

Melissa: You feel connected.

Nancy: Yes. And what is it that you’re connected to?

Melissa: Everything, everyone, every animal, everything.

Nancy: Yes. And so Jesse I want you to move back through this day now, and move on through the day and be there now, at the count of three of the evening meal. And be there now with who you live with, or your evening meal. One, two, three and be there now, and what’s that like? Describe that scene?

Melissa: [Inaudible 00:11:41] there’s a fire in the fireplace, and then a cabin type of thing.

Nancy: And who else is there?

Melissa: Dogs.

Nancy: Dogs, yes. Are there any people or do you live alone?

Melissa: I live alone.

Nancy: And how is it that you’ve come to live alone?

Melissa: I lost my parents.

Nancy: And how have you survived since you lost your parents?

Melissa: Using the gifts that I was given before they died.

Nancy: Yes. And what’s it like for you living alone at this young age?

Melissa: Lonely at times, but free to, free to move as I wish.

Nancy: And Jesse at the count of three you’re going to know the geographical location where you live, where you reside. One, two, three, and where do you live where are you?

Melissa: West.

Nancy: You’re in the West. Yeah and at the count of three you will know the year, the dates that you’re in. One, two three, and what’s the approximate dates? What year is it?

Melissa: Nineteen hundreds.

Nancy: And so Jesse, I want you to move on because I want you to understand that of all the lives this is the life you’ve chosen to go back to, and of all the days this day, when you’ve been out climbing and seeing the beauty. And I want you now to move now further on into your 20s, or 30s, or 40s but move to a significant time in that life, at the count of three. One, two, three and be there now and how old are you there?

Melissa: Fifty one.

Nancy: Fifty one, and what’s happening at 51?

Melissa: Quiet.

Nancy: It’s quiet. And are you well and healthy, are you ill, or why is it just so quiet there?

Melissa: It just seems dark and quiet. I don’t feel ill, I don’t feel in pain, or it’s just quiet and dark.

Nancy: So I want you to move a little bit before then to find out what that quiet and dark is all about. So move back to the day before, just take in a breath, and move back before you ended up in this quiet dark space and what’s happening there?

Melissa: I fell.

Nancy: Yes, you fell, and what happened when you fell?

Melissa: I fell far.

Nancy: Yes, were you high up?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and when you fell, what did you fall into?

Melissa: Rocks.

Nancy: Yes, and did you die in that moment or did you live through that?

Melissa: No, I died.

Nancy: Yes, so allow yourself then to move through falling into the rocks and release the body. Take a breath and release the body. And be there now above the body, and what are your first thoughts? What’s that first awareness as you realize that that life came to quite a sudden ending? What’s that like?

Melissa: I see myself.

Nancy: Yeah, as you see yourself down below.

Melissa: I’m floating.

Nancy: Yes, and notice how that floating feels.

Melissa: Free, [inaudible 00:15:22].

Nancy: Yeah. Be there now it’s so free. And what are your first thoughts as you realize you’re free and that life really is over?

Melissa: I’m amazed at the lightness, feeling of weightlessness.

Nancy: Yeah. And how do you feel about your death, as you look down and feel this lightness, realize it’s over? How do you feel about that sudden ending?

Melissa: Fine, it’s not sad.

Nancy: And so knowing that before we move further away from your body and begin to follow your journey back home, do you remain longer, to you say goodbye to someone or is there any unfinished business that you attend to?

Melissa: No, I’m ready to take off.

Nancy: Ready to go. And so as you begin to leave your body knowing that very soon you’re going to be receiving divine help and releasing all the remaining residual energy from your physical life. You’ll be returning home. So moving away from your body. Begin to experience that sensation and notice do you move quickly or slowly or…?

Melissa: Fast.

Nancy: Is there any kind of pulling sensation or not?

Melissa: Like I’m in control.

Nancy: Yes, so move and experience what that’s like, as you leave moving fast. Notice the view or noticing if you’re looking upwards. And experience that trip home, you’ve been this way before. And let me know when you’ve come to that place where you stop.

Melissa: I stopped.

Nancy: Yes. And notice as you stop, is there any presence there, is there anyone with you, or there lights off in the distance or what’s it like there?

Melissa: It’s a combination of light and dark.

Nancy: Yes, and to just be there, and notice if you…sometimes you may feel something or notice or sense if there is a light, a presence, a being near you, or off in the distance coming towards you, or if you begin to move towards a light?

Melissa: I’m moving towards something.

Nancy: Yeah, so just keep moving and knowing that you’re continuing to move deeper and deeper into the consciousness of the afterlife, as you move toward something. Describe what that is. As you get closer and closer was it that you’re moving towards?

Melissa: It’s like a light.

Nancy: Yes, yeah. And notice if there is a feel, a sense to it, as you get closer and closer.

Melissa: I’m feeling cold now.

Nancy: Yes and notice if that essence, that’s light like if it begins to interact with you at all, is it separate from you? What’s that like as you begin to feel more whole?

Melissa: It’s feeling more encompassing.

Nancy: Yes, and so just breathe it in and really all of your attention and what that feels like.

Melissa: It’s feeling brighter.

Nancy: Yes, just keep being encompassed, breathing it in, noticing how it feels, as this essence, this light encompasses you. And as you’re continuing to become more and more your own essence notice what happens with you, what’s it feel like there?

Melissa: Peaceful.

Nancy: Yes, and notice if this feels familiar to you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, it’s a space you’ve been in before. Just keep noticing as you’re more and more peaceful. What happens with your own essence as you feel brighter, noticing if your essence begins to change in any way.

Melissa: I just feel like a wave, a wave of something larger.

Nancy: And is that light essence still there with you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and notice is there any kind of communication with it, knowing it’s all telepathic it’s just the knowing communication or is it simply just being?

Melissa: It’s being.

Nancy: Yes. So let yourself move through this wave of something larger. And then notice as you’re more and more fully return home to yourself. But at some point in time, you become ready to move on or something changes, something happens as you move into the next phase. Noticing what your essence is like how would you describe yourself now?

Melissa: Whole.

Nancy: And is your essence kind of dense or is it more nebulous, does it have shape or not shape color, no color?

Melissa: No shape.

Nancy: No shape just being? Yes, and I want to know that as you continue on you’re going to continue to incorporate more and more fully your wholeness, your sense of wholeness continues to grow as you move more and more fully into reuniting with yourself. And as that continues, I want you to begin then to move on, and do notice what happens next as you become more and more reunited with yourself becoming whole. What then happens, does this light stay with you? Does it begin to withdraw? Do you become encompassed at all with it, do you become one with , what happens?

Melissa: Encompassed in all, it’s still there. I feel there’s someone else there.

Nancy: Yeah, there’s another presence there?

Melissa: It’s the light.

Nancy: Begin to become aware of that light, if that light feels familiar that other presence?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and so what happens with this presence?

Melissa: We’re communicating.

Nancy: Yes, and what’s that communication about?

Melissa: We’re saying hello.

Nancy: And what’s it like to be back with this presence again?

Melissa: Joy, happy.

Nancy: Yeah. Really breathe it in and begin to become to remember who this presence is that such joy to be back with. And who is this?

Melissa: Bob.

Nancy: And notice what it’s like to be back on the soul state with him. And what is it that the two of you communicate or as you’re welcome back?

Melissa: Just joy.

Nancy: Yeah. And notice what the two of you begin to do if there’s more communication, is there movement if you go somewhere do you just be? What is it that happens as you’re back together again?

Melissa: We’re moving to go see something on others.

Nancy: And the two of you go together?

Melissa: Yes, he’s taking me.

Nancy: So let him take you. Notice what how it is to travel, to move as he’s taking you there? And who is it that you go to see?

Melissa: Others no one in particular.

Nancy: And noticing are these others that you are familiar with?

Melissa: Yeah.

Nancy: And how do you interact with them?

Melissa: Well, with the same communication. So it’s as if one of them is communicating with me.

Nancy: And how many are there in that group?

Melissa: Six.

Nancy: Yup. And are these like friends and peers, are they others higher teachers what level are they?

Melissa: Higher teachers.

Nancy: Yeah, and who are they? Who do you know them as?

Melissa: Friends, but elders.

Nancy: Yeah, they are your friends and yet they’re elders, those are those who know you, who are higher so to speak than you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And so begin to notice what’s it like as you join them in. As you’re there with them what’s that like?

Melissa: Safe.

Nancy: Safe, yes.

Melissa: We kind of get down to business.

Nancy: Yeah. And how do you feel as you get down to business? How do you feel in their presence besides safe? Do they greet you in some way or what’s their beginning communication?

Melissa: Friendly, warm, very warm.

Nancy: Yes, and so they start right off getting down to business, and what do they say? What’s that first communication that knows you’re getting right down to business?

Melissa: Their seriousness, but kind, like I’m here for a reason, very loving.

Nancy: Yes, really breathe in, really breathe in, their love very loving they are. And then how does it begin? What do you begin first to talk about? Do they ask you something, do they tell you something?

Melissa: They are asking me.

Nancy: What do they ask you?

Melissa: What I’d like to know.

Nancy: Yes, and so what do you tell them you would like to know?

Melissa: Why I am Melissa? What I’m I here for?

Nancy: Yes, and how do they respond, what are you here for?

Melissa: To be Melissa, they’re funny.

Nancy: Yeah, they are very funny aren’t they? And what else do they tell you what that means since that’s not quite enough?

Melissa: Well, they said, “See we’re not that serious.”

Nancy: No. And so what do they tell you more? What is it, that you’ve come to be and to do this lifetime?

Melissa: Love. That seems too simple.

Nancy: So ask them to expound.

Melissa: It’s not complicated they say.

Nancy: What are you trying to learn about love? What facets of love are you trying to learn in this lifetime?

Melissa: Giving, and receiving, both are equally as important.

Nancy: And how do they think you’re doing with that?

Melissa: They gave me a thumbs up.

Nancy: And since you’re doing so well with that, what else would they love to see you accomplish in the area of giving and receiving?

Melissa: Express more they say.

Nancy: What would that look like, what do they mean by that?

Melissa: Show more it’s in writing. Show more, express more outwardly. I feel what that mean. I’m having trouble putting it into words.

Nancy: But you understand it within you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes. And are you aware that they had sort of expected you to be at this stage of your life, are you ahead or where they might have expected or where you had planned or behind. Where are you on your overall plan for this lifetime?

Melissa: He’s saying ahead.

Nancy: You’re ahead, and what is it that’s allowed you or enabled you to actually get ahead of what was perhaps planned.

Melissa: Bob.

Nancy: Yes. And how’s he helped you?

Melissa: Expand my consciousness, release emotional baggage that frees that up for me.

Nancy: So ask him now about the cancer. How did that fit into this plan for your life?

Melissa: Freedom.

Nancy: And how was it to be for freedom?

Melissa: Holding myself back for others, thinking I was doing it out of love.

Nancy: And what did you learn? What did they want you to know that was so important about what you learned?

Melissa: That by not holding myself back, thinking that that is giving love. That I actually free them and free myself at the same time.

Nancy: Yes. And was the cancer part of the plan from the beginning? Was it one of the options, was a definite? How did the cancer fit in before this life happened, the planning for this life as Melissa how was the cancer apart of it?

Melissa: It was planned.

Nancy: Yes, it was all planned and did you go through it as planned or better than planned or?

Melissa: As planned.

Nancy: And is there anything else from that they you to know that there’s any other lessons or anything else that you could get of value from the cancer?

Melissa: They are just saying let go.

Nancy: And do you let go of?

Melissa: That it might be still there.

Nancy: Let go of the fear?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And can you ask them for help on how do you actually do that in the human mind?

Melissa: Trust, trust that I know the truth because at times I know they said. The fear only comes occasionally.

Nancy: And what do they want you to do or to know when the fear comes occasionally?

Melissa: Breathe and know.

Nancy: Breathe and know, so when it comes.

Melissa: They’re here, they’re with me, and that it’s just fear. No worries they say as you say.

Nancy: And what else do they want to know about this life, that there is often more than one purpose, the main one being love. What else is it that you’ve come in this lifetime to learn? What was the plan that you were planning out this lifetime? What else did you want to be challenged by or to learn, or grow or achieve?

Melissa: Diversity, feeling different.

Nancy: And why did you wanna learn what it’s like to feel different?

Melissa: To expand, and be comfortable with that expansion.

Nancy: And how do they think you’re doing with that, with being comfortable with expansion of you being different than family and so many others?

Melissa: Good.

Nancy: And so ask them what that role that loneliness plays at times, that you feel different than family and friends?

Melissa: Not sure, loneliness is freedom they say.

Nancy: And how does that work?

Melissa: They’re restrained by the perception of others. They go hand in hand, it’s not negative. So we perceive it as negative. It’s really the essence of us, of who we are in the human body.

Nancy: So with the loneliness looking back asking them as you look back to that other life, that last life as Jesse, have them take you through that life, what was the purpose of that lifetime?

Melissa: To know loneliness, to know we can be in loneliness and be in life and be happy.

Nancy: And as Jesse were you happy?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And so how do they say you did in that lifetime? Did you ever marry in that lifetime?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: No, so you were really very alone and isolated.

Melissa: Had my dogs.

Nancy: You had your dogs. And notice that you’ve gone into that lifetime to know loneliness and that you did well. And so notice that in this lifetime asking them you bring in again the theme of learning about loneliness from a different point of view, a different facet. And what the bigger picture is for learning about loneliness it’s one facet of many lessons that you’ve been learning about in different lifetimes.

As Jesse lonely in your surroundings, in this lifetime lonely in your inner world so to speak of just being different, and yet surrounded by family and loved ones. And so just seeing learning for yourself the whole bigger picture of learning about loneliness, how that’s helping you to grow and what the real bigger lesson is in learning all about loneliness?

Melissa: To be free in my own thinking, my own thoughts, perceptions, to just be free in trust.

Nancy: Yes, can you look back, can they help you look back a number of lifetimes was there a lifetime when you were afraid of the loneliness? Let yourself look back or perhaps you can go to the library, but back to see the pathway that led to this over numerous lifetimes. What was it like in the other lifetimes?

Melissa: Dark.

Nancy: Yes.

Melissa: Not a good feeling.

Nancy: Not good. Look and see how you experienced loneliness then.

Melissa: Heavy, cold.

Nancy: And look to see if there was fear of it?

Melissa: Later lives.

Nancy: So later life after that darkness, that real darkness then you began to fear it.

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: And then in these later lives?

Melissa: Embraced it.

Nancy: You have reason to be proud of it looks like for how far you’ve come over lifetimes in that one facet of learning. And ask about if there’s other facets of lessons that you’ve come along ways in, that this lifetime, it’s something that’s there, but you’ve come so far with it. Ask them to a point another one of them out too that’s important for you.

Melissa: Body, being in my body.

Nancy: So do any of those council members knowing they speak as one, do they make any comments about your current state of advancement this time compared to your former lives?

Melissa: They say they are proud of me.

Nancy: And let that in and let yourself really experience what that’s like. And what do they want you to know that… is their message is their reason that you’re here with them today, something they want you to know.

Melissa: That everything is okay, everything will be okay, that they are always there if I need to access them.

Nancy: And is there any certain way that you can access them, or you are already doing it or can they give you some insights so that you know you’re accessing them?

Melissa: I’m seeing them doing it, I don’t know that I’m doing it. In order for me to know that I’m doing it meditation and music are the best ways of meeting them. But again I won’t need that anymore.

Nancy: Is there anything else they can tell you that you planned for this lifetime, that would help you to become were consciously aware of it? Any lessons or anything else that they want you to be aware of, that you’re doing and might not even be aware of?

Melissa: Good patience, keep doing what I’m doing. Keeping open and expanding, enjoy the ride. He’ll be back with us again, more patients, they are saying more patients may be needed, but I’m good at that.

Nancy: Are there any particular elders you have a certain expertise in any field that’s helpful to you?

Melissa: They say they all are.

Nancy: So I ask if there’s anything else before we move on, anything else they want you to know, or anything else you would like to ask them?

Melissa: They just say continue to give love.

Nancy: And ask them why is it…because there’s no children in this lifetime is that right or do you have children?

Melissa: No, children.

Nancy: And ask them about that before you leave, why is it that there’s no children in this lifetime is that part of the plan?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And why is that.

Melissa: Because a mother’s love is different than loving someone who is not your child.

Nancy: And so what are you trying to learn about that type of love?

Melissa: That it can be as unconditional as a mother’s love. That it’s a connection, an interconnectedness of everyone, everything in the universe. And that if I had children I had may fought to do this only just because it was a mother’s love.

Nancy: So what is your most important individual characteristic as a soul that defines the real you’ll? That no matter what lifetime, you come into this is who you are, you bring that characteristic with you?

Melissa: Strength they say strength.

Nancy: And notice how that strength shows up how you recognize the different qualities of strength that you have.

Melissa: Choice.

Nancy: And so now being the essence as you’ve been in this afterlife for a time now, noticing your own soul essence, noticing your own beingness, the I am that you are, and describe what that’s like?

Melissa: It’s a combination of everything happiness, sadness, weakness, strength, lightness, darkness, heaviness, weightlessness feels like everything. I can choose what I wanna feel.

Nancy: Because it’s all there. So really be in that experience of all that you are, all the duality, all that’s contained within you. And really just experience it fully as the I am, that you are, and noticing if that feels familiar in who you are, actually does feel very familiar to you.

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And recognize when you feel that’s not your body that’s you. That’s the you, that continues on and that’s connected at all times to spirit. And so what is it that you actually do so to speak in between lives have you spend your time?

Melissa: I see myself not walking but sharing and communicating with others, just one after the other, after the other, after the other.

Nancy: And what are you sharing and communicating about?

Melissa: Whatever it is they want to communicate.

Nancy: And so what is it about you that does this well, that communicates, and shares with others? What happens with them, with these other souls when they communicate with you what happens?

Melissa: We love and we cry and we hug and share love.

Nancy: And so notice as you’re with them, and just sharing and being with them, what happens with their energy, their essence?

Melissa: Expands.

Nancy: And what happens with yours?

Melissa: It expands.

Nancy: And notice how naturally that happens with you, and are these souls that you know or are they ones that you don’t know? Is it a younger group, or is it more advanced? Is that anyone, who are all these that you’re communicating and sharing with?

Melissa: Well, they seem the younger, although not all of them.

Nancy: And have been in the spirit world a while? Have they just come back, is this an ongoing thing that you meet with them over and over. Become even more aware of the details of how you spend your time and what the interactions are about?

Melissa: I think they are new to the spirit world.

Nancy: They’ve just returned?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and they have lots to share about don’t they?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yeah, and notice how you feel towards them as they’re younger souls who’ve returned?

Melissa: Happy for them.

Nancy: Yes, and noticed that as you’re being with them, as you spent some time now just being with these souls and just sharing and communicating, and loving, and hugging. Notice how natural that feels to you, doesn’t it? It’s just who you are. I want you to really notice you could not do that, could you?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: It’s a part of your core essence. And then notice how you do that same thing here on earth in your physical life, how you naturally do the same thing. And think nothing of it perhaps?

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: And yet look at the difference you make on the spirit level with their energy. Where you can see them expand, where you got that visual energetic validation. And noticing that that’s what happens on Earth too. And so then as you’ve come in to give and receive love this lifetime, this is how you do it, you just be, don’t you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and the expansion is getting rid of everything in the way of you just being who you really are to just in full[SP] people and being with them. And knowing that your presence has an impact on others, and asking your elders if they can show you anything more about that?

Melissa: They say brings joy too.

Nancy: Yes.

Melissa: Often others don’t know they are being expanded. So they don’t know they are being expanded, they may not respond, react or engage.

Nancy: Good, is there anything more about that?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: Just notice how good it feels doesn’t it when you’re just being you. It goes back to what they said earlier it’s not complicated, is it?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: And so notice just that’s part of the earthly journey is to remember, oh my goodness it really isn’t complicated it really is this simple. We’re always looking for something so complicated for life lessons, and purpose, but it can be this simple, just be you loving.

Melissa: Don’t question if it is enough they say.

Nancy: Not to question is it enough?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Because what do they say, because that’s kind of human, isn’t it?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: I am I doing enough, it’s supposed to be more. And what do they tell you about enough?

Melissa: It’s not a good word.

Nancy: It’s not a good word at all.

Melissa: They’re getting funny again.

Nancy: Well, that’s good it’s supposed to be fun isn’t it?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: So as you look back and they can help you which one of your most favorite past lives as you look back through your history, through your past, bring to mind, they can help or…which one of the…a favorite of yours?

Melissa: Actually Jesse.

Nancy: And what made that one so special?

Melissa: All the exploring I did.

Nancy: So exploring is that part of your soul’s nature?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And so how are you doing that this lifetime?

Melissa: Exploring the universe as opposed to the physical world

Nancy: And so when you’re in the spirit world, do you go exploring there?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, now to do some of that, now where is it you go exploring? Who do you go with? How is that for you when you’re so completely free in spirit? What’s that exploring like?

Melissa: Sometimes I explore just different feelings like I think of feeling weightless and I am weightless, I think I’m feeling extreme joy and I feel that.

Nancy: It’s fun isn’t it?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes and it’s so easy there isn’t?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And then notice how you can do that in the body as well. Maybe other than the weightless stuff, how can you bring that same exploring into the body?

Melissa: Probably do the same thing with my body.

Nancy: That when you felt your full self that it was all there, and you get to choose what you want to feel.

Melissa: Right.

Nancy: So it’s the same thing in the body. Does it sound like freedom is important to you?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And, this is a way of being free, and how else do you explore and explore your freedom or the whole exploration in the spirit world, do you go different places or?

Melissa: Yes, sometimes I wanna be in out of space of being out of space. I wanna be on Jesse’s mountain be wherever I wanna be.

Nancy: And so who is it that you hang out with, who is it that in between lives that you hang out with? Do you spend time alone with Bob with others?

Melissa: In this life?

Nancy: In the between lives, in between there in the spirit world, what do you do with your time when you’re not you know welcoming and the greeting and being with those younger souls. What else do you do?

Melissa: I hang out with people.

Nancy: Do you have a certain group? Or is it a lot of people? Or do you have a soul special group of people or?

Melissa: Hang with a lot of people.

Nancy: And what kinds of things do you do together?

Melissa: Communicate, we sometimes explore.

Nancy: And is it always these same people or does it change?

Melissa: Changes.

Nancy: Yeah, so what draws you to the different souls? What is it that has you hanging out with some and then others?

Melissa: Learning new things, being in different energies.

Nancy: Is that way you enjoy changing, is that being in different energies with different…?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: So there’s no one thing that’s kind of in common with all these different ones?

Melissa: Playful.

Nancy: And notice how you play together, what’s some of the fun playful things that you do with these different groups?

Melissa: Not feeling as doing.

Nancy: It’s more being.

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yeah, just being playful just being. Part of the qualities of that being is playfulness.

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And so do you spend time studying or are you beyond that? Or is it learning through these different groups?

Melissa: Yes, learning from these different groups, you don’t feel as you’re studying.

Nancy: But it’s learning, growing, expanding, simply by being in the different energies?

Melissa: Mm-hmm:

Nancy: And so what is it that then calls you to perhaps know that it’s time to do another lifetime? What goes on within you to know that it’s time?

Melissa: Hunger.

Nancy: And once that hunger for?

Melissa: New.

Nancy: Hunger for something new?

Melissa: Yeah.

Nancy: And so how what happens next. When you’ve got this hunger, and so there’s that knowing of I want something new what happens next?

Melissa: Say I’m ready.

Nancy: And so how does that planning happen?

Melissa: Instant.

Nancy: And what kinds of decisions get made in that instant decision that you’re ready? How that planning happens, you meet with others, is that already planned, who has input?

Melissa: It’s already in place.

Nancy: And do you have input into the plans?

Melissa: My input has accumulated.

Nancy: So it’s not a one-time thing it’s been going on as you’ve been in the spirit world.

Melissa: Right.

Nancy: Saying oh I want this and this, and this, and that. And so that is you become aware how much do you get to know about what that next life will hold for you?

Melissa: Everything, you know everything.

Nancy: So in coming into this current life as Melissa, why is it that you chose to be female?

Melissa: Gentleness.

Nancy: Yes, and you normally come in as female or do male a lot or it is equal?

Melissa: Male a lot.

Nancy: And so coming into this lifetime why is it that your mother was chosen for, or that you chose your mother?

Melissa: Many things.

Nancy: How does having chose her, play into your life purpose of giving and receiving love?

Melissa: She’s good at.

Nancy: She was good at love. Have you come into other life terms with her?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes do you do that often?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Is it usually mother-daughter or there are different variations?

Melissa: Different variations.

Nancy: Has she passed over or is she’s still alive?

Melissa: She’s here, she’s alive.

Nancy: And so what about your father, why did you choose him?

Melissa: Strength.

Nancy: Do you come in with him very often?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: And what about siblings. Why did you choose to come into a family with you being near the bottom, near the younger one, a larger family?

Melissa: To experience diversified love.

Nancy: And as that was all being planned out, what were your thoughts about the way the love would be expressed through all the different siblings in the family?

Melissa: I would experience love on many differing levels conditional, unconditional.

Nancy: And notice how all of that was meant to help, how was that all part of the bigger plan for your life?

Melissa: I definitely experienced having a lot of love, feeling lonely, and being around a lot of people but feeling lonely dichotomy of it all.

Nancy: And so noticing now from this higher wisdom how that’s all part of what you were wanting to experience.

Melissa: Is going deeper.

Nancy: Yes, and then noticing with your siblings if there’s any of them that you’ve come in with before, or that you specifically really wanted to be a part of your life this time/

Melissa: My younger sister.

Nancy: Carolyn, you’ve done lives with her before?

Melissa: Many.

Nancy: Do you often come in together?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Is it usually sisters?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Is she often the older or you will trade places a lot?

Melissa: We trade.

Nancy: And why is it that you two come in as sisters all the time?

Melissa: They’re saying twins.

Nancy: So see that lifetime when you were twins, what did they mean by twins?

Melissa: Two halves of a whole they say.

Nancy: So have them explain what does that mean on a soul level?

Melissa: To stay interconnected.

Nancy: Yes. So when you are both new souls, new expressions, were you expressed like sort of speak at the same time?

Melissa: No.

Nancy: So it’s not like physical twins get born from the same?

Melissa: Right.

Nancy: So you’re twins in that your souls mirror one another?

Melissa: Reflections.

Nancy: Reflections and why is it that you created this with your sister on the soul level?

Melissa: She can remind me and I can remind her.

Nancy: Yeah it’s a great plan isn’t it?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: You get to live your own lives, your own journeys, but you are there to remind each other.
And then coming in with choosing Bob as your husband been as the two of you coming in together again. So how often you do that come in together as husband and wife?

Melissa: Not often.

Nancy: And what’s the agreement this lifetime?

Melissa: Be each other’s teachers.

Nancy: You notice what it is that you teach?

Melissa: Unconditional love, patience, balance.

Nancy: Balance, yes, and then what does he teach you?

Melissa: Perseverance, self-worth, strength, and love, unconditional love.

Nancy: And nothing back in the other lifetimes in which you’ve come in with him, in different forms, husband-wife any relationship. If there’s are certain themes in those lifetimes of why you come in together.

Melissa: Always as different parts of a whole, so the different aspects of us life gets better as a whole.

Nancy: That’s wonderful. And then in the spirit world, do you hang out together much?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: Yes, and notice together what you do in the spirit world what kinds of things do you be, or do together?

Melissa: We be.

Nancy: Just being. And notice then in the spirit world as the two of you were together, what… I wanna say what kind of… it’s like there’s something that happens you make an impact then on the other same thing of two different parts fitting together as a whole on earth and lifetimes. How does that also work in the spirit world?

Melissa: We explore changing them up, taking the opposites, and choosing them, and see how they fit together. It’s almost like we’re experimenting from lives that were gonna choose.

Nancy: Yes, try this on and see how that would fit in a life together.

Melissa: It seems more like our curiosity.

Nancy: Yeah. And notice its fun.

Melissa: Right.

Nancy: Part of you enjoying trying on different feelings and stuff. What would it be like to be like this? And then you get to play it out together.

Melissa: Right.

Nancy: And notice because we haven’t spoken about a guide, do you have a guide or teacher who’s with you in spirit, or who has relevance to you when you’re in the body?

Melissa: No [inaudible 01:08:29]

Nancy: And so noticing and having that information, while you’re not experiencing one, do you tend to have a guide or why not if not? Do you just go to your elders or what is it the kind of the hierarchy so to speak for guidance and help?

Melissa: I guess it would be a guide. A guide feels like an individual, but it’s not an individual.

Nancy: It’s made up of different one’s different beings.

Melissa: An energy with purpose.

Nancy: And how does that energy with purpose and then help you? So there’s not a personality attached to it?

Melissa: Shows we thoughts, feelings then validates them somehow for me. Showing me something in the physical world, so I can receive the information and believe and trust the information.

Nancy: And when you’re in the spirit world, do you ever aware of God or source or creator or call what you want? Are you aware of something higher?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And what’s that like for?

Melissa: It’s more the power it’s in the interconnectedness of everyone in the spirit. So we have our smaller energies as individual souls, but the sense of a higher is really the interconnectedness of all that are there.

Nancy: And how does that then translate to when you’re in the human body?

Melissa: You’re in a vehicle, more distant feeling but accessible, and there’s the day to day living in the human body distracts from the connectedness.

Nancy: Whereas the spirit that distraction isn’t there, are you aware of it kind of is a constant in the spirit world or not?

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: It just is.

Melissa: It just is.

Nancy: And then noticing and comparing where it just is, it’s just constant, it’s there, it’s just is. And then noticing what it’s like there in the human body where that is more distant. How that distance can be… even though it’s accessible, how that distance with this knowledge and experience can be diminished.

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: So walk around and see if there is anything more that you want to experience, or if there’s anything else for your elders that they want to know.

Melissa: No.

Nancy: And notice if that feels complete.

Melissa: Yes.

Nancy: And so knowing that what’s really important is that all that you’ve experienced you really do bring back with you. That as you come back leaving that high realm of your soul, mind, in this beautiful existence in the spirit world between lives on earth. I want you to remember the loving world is always with you, it’s always accessible. And everything we’ve talked about, all your thoughts, your memories, your insights, will be retained to help and empower you as you complete the remainder of your current life, now with renewed energy, purpose, awareness and insights.

And so allow this all-knowing knowledge to settle calmly within your conscious mind and proper perspective just allowing it to continue to integrate. To feel completely whole, as a single person that’s you, your immortal self completely joined with your human self.
Bob Olson certainly gave the whole thing a shallow new age quality - something like a tele-evangelist, so I thought it might be better to look at the actual transcript. Superficially it does look like something from Newton's books.

I haven't read it all yet, but I wonder just what the limits of hypnotism are - can one invent a scenario almost, and get some hypnotic subjects to recall it?

David
 
I wish Alex was more involved with our conversations.
@Alex Yes I wish he would share more of his thoughts here!

I suspect part of the reason is that he is kept very busy producing a podcast every 2 weeks, and running his business to make money for it all!

I too really appreciate this forum, because we really can discuss subjects without becoming part of a clique with just one narrow point of view. Alex selects those who can join, and I think that makes a huge difference - some years ago, we seemed to be plagued with lightweights who simply wanted to fool about. When the disruption happened about a year ago, we did lose a number of very interesting people, but fortunately new people have joined.

At the moment, I barely do any moderation - you all contribute to making this forum work well!

David
 
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I haven't read it all yet, but I wonder just what the limits of hypnotism are - can one invent a scenario almost, and get some hypnotic subjects to recall it?
I am a hypnotherapist trained by HMI and yes, a big reason why hypnosis has been snubbed for years is because of what we call 'memory falsification syndrome'. Back when hypnosis was first picking up steam Freud thought it could be used as a truth telling serum by questioning the subconscious mind directly so he immediately went out to prove his theories that neurotic women had been abused sexually by a father figure. One after another his patients revealed under hypnosis that their uncles, their fathers and grandfathers had raped them such that iirc every single one of his patients had one of these experiences. Well an investigation was performed into this and found not a single one of these stories were true. Freud, disgruntled, then abandoned hypnosis as a tool entirely. Later hypnosis was used to diagnose Satanic Abuse in children at industrial levels but for similar reasons was refuted. Now its illegal to use hypnosis on witnesses because even a single session would relegate that witness invalid in the court of law.

I was trained to avoid all forms of regression because I could be found liable for any damages a false memory could cause and because they are easy to produce.

Through inflection, leading questions and false choices we can accidentally produce false memories. In addition the deeper into the trance state you go the more random images and sensations are produced by hypnogogia.

IIRC Michael Newton specifically goes into his methods on how he prevented leading questions but ultimately rests on the variety of experiences people have being extremely similar. I'm not sure if Dollores Cannon also talks about memory falsification syndrome but I know she also believes her accounts are authentic because its many people reporting the same experiences.
 
IIRC Michael Newton specifically goes into his methods on how he prevented leading questions but ultimately rests on the variety of experiences people have being extremely similar. I'm not sure if Dollores Cannon also talks about memory falsification syndrome but I know she also believes her accounts are authentic because its many people reporting the same experiences
So what do you think of Newton's research - is it worth considering?

I take it you can't simply use a preliminary suggestion that they will always tell the truth?

David
 
So what do you think of Newton's research - is it worth considering?

I take it you can't simply use a preliminary suggestion that they will always tell the truth?

David

I think its the most optimistic stuff I've ever come across, if we can get a compilation of similar reports we can analyze them in a way that examines how they differ across cultures similarly to what we do with NDE's. Sadly the protocol for performing a between lives regression is quite tiresome as the induction alone is several hours.

I take it you can't simply use a preliminary suggestion that they will always tell the truth?
I'd assume not, from my own self hypnosis attempts the subconscious mind does not seem to have any concept of true or false. I'd probably have heard about it if this was possible by now also.
 
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I think it’s similar to what we see with mediums. (Though obviously it is markedly different in several ways). But I think it’s similar in that there are those who are good at it, but not perfect. Then ther are those who have SOME luck mixed with the bad. Then there are the charlatans. LetsEat addressed some of the potential pitfalls mentioned in the article you posted, particularly suggestibility. You have to find somebody who has a natural talent for it, have developed themselves and honed their skills, and understand the potential pitfalls of the practice if not done carefully. If all these things are accounted for, I am generally confident in the practice. LetsEat can tell me if
my assessment is accurate. That being the case, I believe it’s probay hard to find somebody you can trust.

If a hypnotist is TRULY being careful with suggestibility, then uniformity of the reports he/she gets back from his patients is good evidence. Particularly if this is reproduced by other careful therapists.

One thing that bothered me with Newton was how neat the verbiage was for each patient in his book. I realize he probably cleaned it up to make a better book, but for those who are discerning, it looks bad from an evidence standpoint. I have a hard time believing those are the exact transcripts. Not saying I don’t believe him. I like his work, but I’m not 100 perfect sold. What do you think LetsEat? And maybe those WERE the original transcripts. It just seems cleaned up to me, at the least.
 
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I think it’s similar to what we see with mediums. (Though obviously it is markedly different in several ways). But I think it’s similar in that there are those who are good at it, but not perfect. Then ther are those who have SOME luck mixed with the bad. Then there are the charlatans. LetsEat addressed some of the potential pitfalls mentioned in the article you posted, particularly suggestibility. You have to find somebody who has a natural talent for it, have developed themselves and honed their skills, and understand the potential pitfalls of the practice if not done carefully. If all these things are accounted for, I am generally confident in the practice. LetsEat can tell me if
my assessment is accurate. That being the case, I believe it’s probay hard to find somebody you can trust.

If a hypnotist is TRULY being careful with suggestibility, then uniformity of the reports he/she gets back from his patients is good evidence. Particularly if this is reproduced by other careful therapists.

One thing that bothered me with Newton was how neat the verbiage was for each patient in his book. I realize he probably cleaned it up to make a better book, but for those who are discerning, it looks bad from an evidence standpoint. I have a hard time believing those are the exact transcripts. Not saying I don’t believe him. I like his work, but I’m not 100 perfect sold. What do you think LetsEat? And maybe those WERE the original transcripts. It just seems cleaned up to me, at the least.
It's been about a year since I read his books but iirc he uses the same few people for most of his books despite claiming that he's done it with hundreds of people. I didn't at the time consider it to be superbly evidential because I would have wanted all the original transcripts. For all we know he had 94 failures and 6 quality patients, or there could be other obvious problems. He may have left out some of the more bizarre and fantastical or nonsensical stories as is common in other areas like NDE's and OBE's.

I'd like to see a nice compendium such as this http://www.oberf.org/prebirth.htm but much larger.
 
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I realize he probably cleaned it up to make a better book, but for those who are discerning, it looks bad from an evidence standpoint. I have a hard time believing those are the exact transcripts.
Iirc one of the past lives claimed in the book says they were in a state during a time when it wasn't actually a state but a territory. I'll update this if I can remember/find out more.
 
It's been about a year since I read his books but iirc he uses the same few people for most of his books despite claiming that he's done it with hundreds of people.
.
Why do you think this? I agree that the verbiage appears similar (perhaps, it’s hard to get a real sense through written words), but they do tell different stories, and perhaps they were cleaned up by him to appear more reader friendly?

There are also lots of people with testimonials who are happy with the work they did under hypnosis by him. But then again, maybe suggestion played a role there too. What do you think?
 
Iirc one of the past lives claimed in the book says they were in a state during a time when it wasn't actually a state but a territory. I'll update this if I can remember/find out more.
That might not be a distinction that the person made in their former life and/or their current life - so it might not be significant.

I had to look up iirc before I knew what it meant. I don't really like it at all, but at least it would help to capitalise it - IIRC so it is obviously an acronym!

David
 
I think its the most optimistic stuff I've ever come across, if we can get a compilation of similar reports we can analyze them in a way that examines how they differ across cultures similarly to what we do with NDE's. Sadly the protocol for performing a between lives regression is quite tiresome as the induction alone is several hours.
Do you think it might be simplified to something like "Go back to the period before you were born, and describe what is happening." It might be less revealing, but at least if it was consistent with Newton's books it would be encouraging.

Are you up for a little experimentation with this?

David
 
Alex,

During the interview, Shermer brought up the fact that different people experience different afterlifes. Christians see Jesus, Buddhists see Buddha, etc...and you said he "got you, can't explain that one". Shermer claims it should "be the same for everyone" if it's really this one place. A couple of objections though...

1 - I have heard more than once I believe, some NDErs discussing how people are sometimes shown what would make their experience more acceptable or comfortable. So therefore a Christian may be expecting or wishing to see Jesus so some guiding spirit or being of light can represent themselves as they think the NDEr would want. Or perhaps it's tied to the person's own expectations and projections and that guides the perception of some being of light. Either way, this still would allow for the possibility that there is "a heaven" and yet it seems different based on different NDEr religions/backgrounds.

2 - why can't this just be different realms of the afterlife? Maybe some or all religions are true and their messiahs existed, perhaps they are in different areas of an afterlife realm. Ignoring the Jesus/Buddha/etc encounters, any other descriptions could simply be descriptions of different places. A real problem would be contradictions between different NDE accounts that really cannot both be true (like everything is made out of light vs. someone saying everything is made out of matter). It would be different (and a real contradiction) if the "Jesus" encountered in an NDE said "I am the one and only son of God, Christianity is the only true religion" etc....and other prophets encountered said the same of their religion. But to my knowledge, "religious truth" is not professed in NDEs, none that I've ever read.

I researched NDEs some years ago and am getting back into it again (thanks to discovering your podcast) but I'd be curious if people have encountered NDEs contrary to my depiction above.

Thanks,
Jon
 
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You can always learn something from your opponent in a debate - even if you're just learning about yourself.

And many of us here are not just interested in validating a belief in Psi/Magic or the mechanics of it, but in seeing a cultural transformation in the West away from materialism. Debates between people like Alex and Michael are at the bleeding edge of that cultural transformation.
I am interested that you do not find validation of the belief in Psi/Magic as part of that cultural transformation, given the emphasis we place on then intellect. Do you mean that the technical elements of the matter are less interesting than the cultural? If so I get that.

I was watching a Dynamo Magician Impossible episode in which a woman, who seemed to me to be not blessed with a significant education, responded to a magical performance by saying it "wasn't scientific". I suspected she wouldn't know "scientific" from a chocolate bar, to be frank. But her point was that the language she used reflected an aspiration to a mentality that the performance violated.

Another witness described what he saw as "wrong". According to what? His notion of a scientifically informed worldview, I guessed. I am a huge fan of Dynamo because, regardless of what I think about his art, he routinely transgresses against our collective sense of the normal and right and real. He exposes people to an unfamiliar ontological danger, and how they respond is intriguing.

Materialism is our cognitive bedrock. Movement into any alternative (for me animism) is going to be traumatic and dis-orientating. So we will use entertainment rather than any form of intentional rational discourse to facilitate that transition - and we are talking decades, or more likely, centuries. Just look at how long Quantum Physics has taken to become almost acceptable.

For me animism is a political term. The reality of a real post-materialist mentality will be bigger than that. But animism has the perfect transitional clout. Look at the top 100 grossing movies to get a real sense of the degree to which the sci fi/fantasy/magic theme is simply blowing other categories out of the water. I admit that the data is influenced by marketing dominated by a younger age group relative to past movies - but the overall cultural impact remains significant. We are being stupefied into a magical mentality.

I wrote a really bad thesis related to this theme. But I do not resile from the core ideas, and I do not have time to rewrite it. I am happy to make it available to any hardy soul.

Transition from materialism to post materialism is a really important thinking area.
 
I am interested that you do not find validation of the belief in Psi/Magic as part of that cultural transformation, given the emphasis we place on then intellect. Do you mean that the technical elements of the matter are less interesting than the cultural? If so I get that.
I DO see validation of it as part of the cultural transformation. I only meant that many of the forum members and audience of Skeptiko have already seen enough validation of Psi/Magic that we don't feel a great need to see more of it, and being personally satisfied we are interested in seeing a broader cultural transformation.

I was watching a Dynamo Magician Impossible episode in which a woman, who seemed to me to be not blessed with a significant education, responded to a magical performance by saying it "wasn't scientific". I suspected she wouldn't know "scientific" from a chocolate bar, to be frank. But her point was that the language she used reflected an aspiration to a mentality that the performance violated.

Another witness described what he saw as "wrong". According to what? His notion of a scientifically informed worldview, I guessed. I am a huge fan of Dynamo because, regardless of what I think about his art, he routinely transgresses against our collective sense of the normal and right and real. He exposes people to an unfamiliar ontological danger, and how they respond is intriguing.
Having a contrarian thought right now: Talking about people not blessed with a significant education or cognitive abilities... perhaps these people at this stage of cognitive development actually benefit more from the materialist dogma... maybe a person needs to master rationalism before opening to magic so that magical thinking doesn't become the dominant mode of operation in the world ...this could result in insane or sub-optimal life-decisions.

Materialism is our cognitive bedrock.
Literally! ...I wrote a short blog on how materialism is a metaphor for reality rooted in our long history of experience with rocks. Materialism was perhaps a necessary stage of cognitive development, but it is certainly not the ultimate ontological truth and it has left the scientific mainstream blind to things like Psi.

Movement into any alternative (for me animism) is going to be traumatic and dis-orientating. So we will use entertainment rather than any form of intentional rational discourse to facilitate that transition - and we are talking decades, or more likely, centuries. Just look at how long Quantum Physics has taken to become almost acceptable.
Yes, I agree that dramatic paradigm shifts can be traumatic and some people might not fully recover... which is probably why we have all these built in defense mechanisms to avoid any contradicting ideas which might result in cognitive dissonance.

I think the transition will happen exponentially quickly and has already rapidly accelerated in only a decade. The internet is providing a huge IQ boost to the noosphere.

For me animism is a political term. The reality of a real post-materialist mentality will be bigger than that. But animism has the perfect transitional clout. Look at the top 100 grossing movies to get a real sense of the degree to which the sci fi/fantasy/magic theme is simply blowing other categories out of the water. I admit that the data is influenced by marketing dominated by a younger age group relative to past movies - but the overall cultural impact remains significant. We are being stupefied into a magical mentality.

I wrote a really bad thesis related to this theme. But I do not resile from the core ideas, and I do not have time to rewrite it. I am happy to make it available to any hardy soul.

Transition from materialism to post materialism is a really important thinking area.
Post a link to the thesis!
 
why can't this just be different realms of the afterlife?
Welcome to the forum, Love Knowledge.

You get it in one -- I'm very certain myself that the afterlife is vast beyond our incarnate imaginings. Most of what I've read on it points in the direction that there are indeed a multiplicity of 'realms' there. I have an NDE experience of my own, can be read here: Peter N NDE (so I'm saying what I'm saying with that experience as my guiding light). Shermer's notion that an NDE should be the same for everyone is laughably misguided as to the nature of the afterlife realms.

As to people claiming that their NDE proves that only Jesus is the one true saviour I have read a few accounts on NDERF where the NDEr decides this is so and they are quite vocal on this point in their responses to questions connected to their NDE accounts. I would though note that in all accounts of that type that I read (and there weren't many of them) the NDEr comes to this 'realisation' after coming too after the actual NDE -- so it's kind of like an interpretive afterthought. I usually find such, after-the-fact proclamations on the part of a handful of NDErs to be; (a) deeply misguided; (b) probably due to a huge and pretty blind personal investment in a fundamentalist Christian religion (which may only develop after the NDE), particularly on the 'literal' truth of Bible; (c) deeply disturbing. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any links to the odds and ends of NDERF accounts where this kind of thing is reported. There was one such after-the-fact experience of an NDEr where the poor woman was raving about the 'rapture' being an imminent event -- to that one that I thought that if she had and NDE at all (which I doubted) then she had lost all her marbles as a result of it, and I thought that would be a highly improbable follow-through to anyone having and NDE.

One person that does take this kind of strident tack and which sticks in my mind is the NDEr Ian McCormack. There was a Skeptiko podcast a while ago featuring Ian here: http://skeptiko.com/255-ian-mccomacks-exclusively-christian-near-death-expeience/ and the forum discussion of that show here: Forum - Ian MacCormack
There are lots of Youtube videos with Ian: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ian+mccormack -- it would be a good idea to watch a couple of those before listening to the Skeptiko podcast. And there was even a movie made of a dramatisation of his experience. Don't really know what to make of Ian's NDE other than it was clearly a 'Christian-themed' one but I do think that he has totally missed the point in his interpretation of it -- in this life it seems he is just never going to get beyond Jesus as the one true saviour and a fairly literal interpretation of the Bible. Personally, I think when Ian does finally pass over, at least in the beginning, he'll land in an afterlife realm that is populated with people that are spiritual affines with his own proclivities. How long it would take him to get beyond that (I suspect 'bind') is anyone's guess.

P.S. Love Knowledge, when I click on the link to your website I get an error message that says, "403: Access Forbidden
Your location (GB) has been blacklisted."
 
Welcome to the forum, Love Knowledge.
Thanks Radish! Feel free to call me Jon by the way, or Love Knowledge if you prefer :)

As to people claiming that their NDE proves that only Jesus is the one true saviour I have read a few accounts on NDERF where the NDEr decides this is so
Key word for me here is "decides". Sounds like an interpretation on their part vs. being told that this is the case. Can you clarify? If it's their interpretation, I'm not so worried by this because that's just their interpretation, we don't need to oblige to their take on the NDE. But if they claim they were told this, that's more problematic (given that it contradicts the majority of cases on this point).

Ok then I read a couple more lines and you addressed my point above lol.....so ignore that. I like what you say here, makes sense to me. As for Ian McCormack, haven't heard of him and I'm not up to #255 yet (been blasting through episodes from the beginning for the last 2-3 months, I'm up to like 205 or so). Without knowing anything about him or other NDErs who claim a very religious interpretation for their NDE, I would simply say there could always be some kind of agenda going on. Now maybe I'm wrong, maybe the NDE really does reveal some kind of religious truth out there, but again, from my research (albeit years ago and not the most up-to-date), that doesn't seem to be what the consensus report. The consensus seems to be a non-religious, universal type of truth, love is most important, we're all spiritual beings, trying to develop and be more loving, and so forth. That message, to me, makes more sense (and again, seems to be the consensus of NDE accounts) than one particular religion, especially if multiple ones are saying the same thing about their own.

P.S. Love Knowledge, when I click on the link to your website I get an error message that says, "403: Access Forbidden
Your location (GB) has been blacklisted."
Thanks for pointing this out to me, I've had difficulties trying to get my website in order recently. First hackers, then I had to put up firewall protection, etc....that may be why you're being blocked. I'll look into that. In the meantime, if you're curious, you can find out more about my non-profit organization on our Facebook page here https://www.facebook.com/loveknowledge.org/. Haven't explored NDEs and the paranormal on my site/page yet but I will eventually!
 
I think its the most optimistic stuff I've ever come across, if we can get a compilation of similar reports we can analyze them in a way that examines how they differ across cultures similarly to what we do with NDE's. Sadly the protocol for performing a between lives regression is quite tiresome as the induction alone is several hours.


I'd assume not, from my own self hypnosis attempts the subconscious mind does not seem to have any concept of true or false. I'd probably have heard about it if this was possible by now also.

Michael Newton was my first exposure to past life regression accounts and it impressed me deeply when I read it in high school. His whole structuring of the afterlife is too neat and tidy, with halls of learning, decontamination centers, council of elders and life review planning facilities. OBE accounts like Monroe's and Ziewe's describe a more hectic and chaotic place.
 
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