Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti, near-death experience science counters grief |319|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti, near-death experience science counters grief |319|
    by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 14 | Near-Death Experience

    This physician discovered near-death experience science can help those experiencing grief.
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    photo by: Martin
    Today we welcome Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti, an Italian-born, Scottish-raised MD who since 2004 has developed an intense, scholarly interest in evidence suggesting the survival of consciousness after death. He’s written some terrific books on the subject including 21 Days Into the Afterlife, a book that received quite a lot of positive attention. Recently Dr. Calvi-Parisetti has turned his attention to grief and bereavement–and that’s one of the things we want to talk to him a lot about today.

    Alex Tsakiris: …you think there’s a scientific reason why this Near-Death Experience educational program can be effective in helping people overcome grief and bereavement. You make the point that you get out of it what you put into it. And you say that’s not just a good axiom but there’s scientific evidence for the fact that if you work at this you’re likely to have results. But if you don’t work at it as much you’re less likely to have results

    Dr. Calvi-Parisetti: …that’s exactly what happens in cognitive therapy. If you don’t identify your wrong, distorted, excessively negative thoughts, and if you don’t work at correcting them your moods don’t improve. On the other hand, we have research, particularly by Dr. Kenneth Ring which I found phenomenally interesting, and it’s fueled my enthusiasm for the approach I developed… we all know that NDE’ers show an array of beneficial psychological and behavioral changes after an NDE… what was extraordinary is that Ring showed some of these changes appeared in people who did not have an NDE but just read about it.
     
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  2. Red

    Red New

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    Regarding Dr Parisetti's claim that the more highly educated on the subject are more likely to believe in the afterlife, I think he is absolutely correct. When one looks at the entirety of the body of literature on the subject it is hard to deny. However, there are certain prerequisites for this belief.

    First one has to have the inclination to examine the data. Believe it or, some people just don't care to know. Second, one has to accept qualitative data, i.e.. it is necessary to listen and accept anecdotal information without immediately assuming the person is deceiving themselves and others. Trust that others' speak their truth just as you speak yours and all of a sudden it becomes easier to believe that other people are not just fools misinterpreting their experiences. That does not mean you must believe everything you hear! Third, you really do have to look at the data as a whole and not use one example as the 'rule.' Every experience will be different but all paint the same canvas.

    When I began my search almost a decade ago I was surprised at the strength of the common thread of spiritual matters from many different sources. There seems to be fundamental agreement among the literature of mediums, hypnotherapists, spiritualists, the experiences of ordinary individuals (ADCs, NDE's), the ancient texts (Tibetan book of the Dead) and the not so ancient texts of those who live close to those who are in the processes of dying. As Carl Jung said " when I know a thing I do not have to believe. "

    I think Dr Parisetti is absolutely on the right track for helping individuals deal with the death of their loved ones, and with their own imminent demise.
     
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  3. Great interview - I definitely know my mother's death bed vision not only eased my own family but also the family of my uncle who died of a heart attack years ago.

    Recalls the Ghosts are Good for You talk:

     
  4. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    Very well put.
     
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  5. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    Dr Piero talks about the AllNurses site regarding apparitions and psychic experience. It's well worth checking out and a wealth of first hand testimonies.
     
  6. Red

    Red New

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    I remember reading an account of this woman's experience (and, of course, that of her sister's communication with their father). The main point that she made at that time was that a friend of the family had said something completely dismissive of her sister's experience, and how that made them feel. She was pretty upset that a person who has no knowledge of the significance of an event can discard it with impunity and feel that they are doing you a favour!!

    I also remember that there was a great deal of significance in the way the spirit of her father touched her head.
     
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  7. Red

    Red New

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    Thanks :)
     
  8. I suspect the person outright denying her experience is trying to keep hold of their own religious faith in materialism more than trying to help anyone else.

    Really the pseudoskeptical cults seem to be infected with a certain narcissism....even Chomsky, himself an atheist, talked about this problem:

     
  9. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Alex's questions at the end of the podcast:

    What do you make of Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti's claim that education about near death experience science and after death communication can help the bereaved in a measurable way? Can it actually be a treatment that would rival drugs or conventional psychotherapy?
     
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  10. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    What do you make of Dr. Piero Calvi-Parisetti's claim that education about near death experience science and after death communication can help the bereaved in a measurable way? Can it actually be a treatment that would rival drugs or conventional psychotherapy?

    Why not? In times gone by, religion would have been brought forward to help the dying and the bereaved. These days, when people don't buy that so much, they might be more comforted if they think that there's some credible evidence for life after death. People, provided that they aren't dyed in the wool materialists, are probably more open to persuasion at such times. Not that I think NDEs are bogus -- far from it -- but even if they were, it might still work for some people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  11. Alex

    Alex New

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    great. do you have any specific links handy?
     
  12. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    The question, expressed in terms of drugs or psychotherapy, characterises normal human experience in terms of mental illness.

    If that was really a valid description, then birth and every moment in between should also be characterised as mental illness. How on earth did we arrive at a situation where our ordinary everyday existence is categorised as ill-health? That is insanity.

    As for Dr. Calvi-Parisetti, in my opinion, he is re-connecting us with our heritage as human beings. We inherit the experience of those who have gone before, that is our right.
     
  13. Alex

    Alex New

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    great point, Michael! it really brings the problem into focus... i.e. we want compassion and truth.
     
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  14. Red

    Red New

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  15. Small Dog

    Small Dog New

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    Seriously?
     
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  16. SwiffFiffteh

    SwiffFiffteh Member

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    Yes.

    My mother's immediate family--her father, mother, and two brothers--all died within a 10-month period about a year ago. A woman who had been like a second mother to her when she was a child also died during this period.

    Needless to say, this was an incredibly difficult time for my mother. She is a devout Catholic, and I watched as she dove deeply into the religion in attempt to find solace and comfort over the passing of so many loved ones...an attempt that was, IMO, not only doomed to fail to provide her with spiritual comfort, but would(and did) in fact have the opposite effect, since none of the deceased had been Catholic, and several were not even nominally Christian.

    It was too much for me to take, watching this unfold, so I determined to do something about it. But what?

    Eventually I hit on the idea of just giving her some NDE research material to look at. She was reluctant at first but once she started reading the papers I brought her, she got hooked.
    And she got better. Visibly so. Face smoothed out, dark circles under eyes faded, got more sleep, had more energy. Started smiling again. Laughing again.

    It works.
     
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  17. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    Absolutely. If skeptics were motivated by the sum total of human happiness rather than abstractions, there'd be no case to answer, belief in survival is the only one consistent with human nature. We cannot imagine not existing at all, therefore we can only surmise some variety of continuity. Countering such a belief relies on intellectual complexity at the expense of other human traits, which at times of grief are immensely more rewarding, and that's before we look at the evidence of NDEs, crisis apparitions and other testimony in more measured circumstances.
     
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  18. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Although I agree that the subject of NDE's should be helpful to those close to death, or to their loved ones, I don't think it always is.

    A friend of mine had to endure the protracted death of his wife from cancer. While she was still alive, I decided to talk to him (on his own) about NDE's, and what they presumably mean. Unfortunately, it was a huge mistake, and he got quite upset about the subject - so I said I would not mention the subject again unless he did, and so far he hasn't.

    I may, of course, simply not be good at such conversations.

    David
     
  19. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think there is certainly a grain of truth in what Alex said (together with some exaggeration)!

    When you read Irreducible Mind, I think it will make you wonder just how much we really understand of the human body, because it would seem that in extreme (but well documented) cases the mind can control the body in amazing ways.

    David
     
  20. Red

    Red New

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    David, it's very difficult to find the right to discuss these issues with people who are in the midst of so many powerful emotions - including a certain amount of denial (particularly denial of inevitability of death). Although your efforts were not received well at the time, perhaps when he is ready your, friend may take a look for himself based on your comments to him. Sometimes it takes a while for ideas to be explored. I am sure that you did no harm in the long run.
     
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