Dr. Tom Cowan Insists We Show Him Covid-19 |472|

right... I could have handled it better... I could have been nicer... I could have been more polite in showing what ridiculous flat earth science style thinking lies behind the claim that "there is no virus."

but hey, at least we got it worked out here on the forum, right? I mean, the evidence that covid-19 virus was engineered completely contradicts the cowan / kaufman / icke silliness.

both can't be true.... there can't be "no virus" and evidence that the virus was engineered in a bioweapons lab.

do you think there is a covid-19 is virus? y/n/m
what do you make of those that claim there is "no virus"?
***
IF the guy is wrong then you handled it right. We now know COVID has been in the U.S. for at least 2 years.

Alex, you can't say the virus wasn't engineered. I think it was (I don't have proof/ I haven't looked). I don't know if they released it on purpose but they sure as hell were studying it. I mean that's all out there.

I think there is a virus. I just don't think it's as dangerous or worth locking down for. That is just crazy. I'm VERY sure they padded the numbers, I KNOW they coded people with it so they could get more from insurance. I mean I KNOW hospitals, doctors' offices would pad numbers. It's too easy just to code someone dying w/it to get another 50K. If they were going to die anyway. I KNOW this.

Do you know any doctors personally? I do. Yeh, they would do that. It doesn't hurt anyone in their eyes, they just get an extra 50K no questions asked.

Ask any accountant working w/doctors. They will tell you. IN FACT, now that I think about it... the doctors I know, even the ones I like would all probably code for it even if the person didn't have it. Just by them having a cough.

The only doctors I think wouldn't deal w/reprodutive health & engineering. And the only reason they wouldn't is because they don't work w/that clientele.

Look at the spread of this disease. Look how AIDS/HIV spread. Draw it on a map... that tells you a lot. Who was there & why....
 
That is a fair point, but OTH censoring someone proposing wrong information might also be a great trick to distract.

David

Nothing wrong with being wary - in a way, everything being served up needs to be regarded with a little scepticism. I don't buy much of anything myself, and regard many as controlled opposition agents - I have met a few of them over the years. But when you have shoddy organisations such as Center for Countering Digital Hate, set up to tritely slur someone like Icke as an "anti-semite" and a "conspiracy theorist", it would suggest they fear him now. - I don't see how Icke exposing the agenda is helping the agenda - for years he's been dismissed as a nutter, and therefore not really a threat, but now people are listening, realising he's been right, and he's making much sense, so it's time to try to censor him, remove him from the major platforms.

Icke's perspective is beyond this matrix of control and deception - his perspective goes beyond race, politics, religion, including the New Age deception, and all other forms of division and control. We are, Icke often repeats, spiritual beings having a temporary human experience, and we are much more than this human expression of ourselves, much more than the "little me". That message doesn't serve the control freaks too well. I think David Icke is genuinely on the side of true freedom and against all forms of Luciferian deception and evil. And I have enjoyed listening to his weekly podcasts with his son, Gareth - as they are talking sense in a world gone completely insane. But at the end of the day - there is only one thing you can trust and only one person to follow, and that is yourself, of course.
 
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This is just a test post to see if I can actually post here. Was not working yesterday. Am new here.

For what it's worth, I am with Tom Cowan here - this is the biggest outbreak of mass hysteria in world history. The gangster med profession's mad bad dreams have finally been realized, they run the world. I don't think there's a conspiracy here in the usual meaning of the word, David Icke is an idiot, yet there are med professionals (some very prestigious) around the world who consider this the biggest disaster/fraud/hoax in history, even if they believe in the virus itself (such as Rodger Hodkinson a virologist, Claire Craig, Vernon Coleman, Scot Atlas - they don't see the necessity for lockdowns, and that this flu is no worse than usual, that the IFR (infection fatality rate) is very low, and hence does not justify the lockdowns etc., testing not accurate etc.) The lockdowns are so obviously onerous and excessive, the regulations don't make any sense and are different in different counties and even states and provinces, this should force any open-minded person to question the science itself. If the medical fascist authorities who now run the world are being so excessive, so well fascist, ask yourself the question - why? Is it because they have the science on their side or is it because they are caught up in pseudo-scientific gibberish? If the general public are behaving like a bunch of hysterical headless chickens, is it because they know the science, or because they don't know anything and are blindly worshipful of anything coming out of the mouths of unaccountable gangster medical mafia authorities?

Later edit: Oh wait I see my first post did come through, (on page 8), it wasn't there yesterday or somehow I didn't see it. Or there was some glitch. Okay great, things are working my end.
 
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I want to address a few things that the defenders of the orthodoxy here are saying (there's a virus because the medical gangster authorities who have been destroying public health for generations and who effectively work for greedy Big Pharma say there's a virus!!)...

Well Henri Bauer deals with this point explicitly. the conventional theory is that people die of AIDS because it weakens the immune system and lets other diseases run riot - often fungal ones. However, AZT acts as a powerful anti-fungal drug, although it is way too toxic to use for that purpose. So the fact that AZT caused her to recover and then killed her makes perfect sense.

Maybe she would still be alive if she had been treated for the fungal infections with a more appropriate medicine.

I seem to remember that AZT was considered as a possible anti-cancer drug, but it was considered too toxic even for hat role.

David
dpdownsouth, who spoke in defense of ARVs (AIDS drugs), to whom Bailey is addressing, is clearly South African, since he speaks of his government's flirting with AIDS so-called denialism. That would be the government of Thabo Mbeki about 20 years ago or so. As I said in my first post, unless one gets to grips with AIDS dissent and recognizes the truth of AIDS dissent, one is not going to get to grips with COVID-19. The two are inseparable. AZT is a toxin, it has a skull and crossbones on the warning label.

1606121924007.png

Naturally this label is not on the EXACT SAME AZT that Big Pharma (GlaxoSmithKline, the conglomerate's name has changed over the years with mergers and acquisitions) give to so-called HIV positives, including pregnant women and their unborn babes!!! because as AIDS dissidents pointed out twenty years ago, who would take it then? And there was a huge role-out for AZT in South Africa and Southern Africa approx 2 decades ago. That's why Mbeki opposed it! Then again he was relying on med scientists for his info, from around the world, included virologists, biophysicists, immunologists, included one of the fathers of retrovirology Peter Duesberg at Berkeley (HIV is supposed to be a retrovirus, but that's a whole other thing) and 2 Nobel Laureate scientists, among so many other med scientists. This was not mentioned in the South African and world media really, almost wholly censored, along with the AZT warning label (see above). So if the AIDS industry was knowingly killing overwhelmingly black people in Southern Africa (and still is), all in the name of health care while Big Pharma laughs all the way to the bank, who says they are right on HIV itself?! If those who opposed this legal medical murder in Southern Africa notably and of gay men in the West before then (Freddie Mercury among so many other gay or bi men died from AZT and other ARVs) are also saying that HIV does not exist, why wouldn't you give them a hearing? And if you do, then it follows why not give corona virus COVID-19 dissidents a hearing too?

Here is the most comprehensive resource on AIDS dissent, includes links to docies, interviews, books etc.
http://www.virusmyth.org/aids/index.htm put together by the late Robert Laarhoven, let us not forget him.
The viral isolation issue here is pivotal and one needs to be familiar with Perth Group and Stefan Lanka literature here (at the link), if not you don't know squat. All of this has been of course heavily censored and misrepresented.

As far as SARS-CoV-2 is concerned, let me just say that I don't buy into the 5G conspiracy, I think it a mistake, a red herring as it were. But I can only fight so many battles here, and the pressing urgent thing is the recognition that SARS-CoV-2 does not exist; or if you refuse to accept that, at least recognize that the lockdowns are a fascist excess, a form of authoritarian control, there is no need for masks, our demon cloth protectors, and the vaccine is about as necessary as food poisoning, and has the likelihood of being a serious world-wide health disaster. Ooh old people are dying and not living forever, the world's first 'pandemic' that targets overwhelmingly the elderly, and the young hardly at all, the young at no higher rates and numbers than any other year (that is very very very rarely). And the middle-aged at no higher rates and numbers than usual, that is the usual flu/pneumonia and other cardio-respiratory illnesses even, since there is nothing unique or specific about COVID-19 whatsoever, and several governments' health depts and ministries including the US CDC, have been passing off anybody dying from cardio-respiratory complaints, including those whose symptoms cover diseases like emphysema and bronchitis as COVID dead. Far worse they have been committing brazen fraud by passing off anybody who dies who tests positive for the virus, as a COVID-19 death, even if said person died from cancer (I know of one case actually) or heart disease or stroke, even accident etc. The CDC admits doing this on its website! There are plenty of articles written by journalists and the like pointing this out. If you don't believe me, you can investigate yourself. This is cynical fraud and has inflated the world statistics here considerably. A similar thing has happened notably with African AIDS. And you trust these same gangsters on the corona virus itself?? Why?

COVID-19 flu (I MEAN THE SERIOUS CASES HERE, not just people who test positive) is as rare and unusual among the young as the annual flu/pneumonia is among the young, the average mean age of COVID-19 dead in First World countries is in many cases in the early eighties!! (if you don't see a red flag here I can't help you); so let's shut down the schools and the unis, destroy the natural social development of children and let's vaccinate them, teenagers and young and middle-aged adults, elderly who are already prone to illness and vulnerable, given frail immune systems (it's called old age you may have heard of it) en masse with untested RNA vaccine tech! Sounds like a great idea. Hey Big Pharma and their paid-off bureaucrats at the WHO, NIH, CDC, FDA, British NHS, and their counterparts around the world think it's a good idea. What could go wrong?
 
Tom Cowan Insists We Show Him Covid-19 |472|
by Alex Tsakiris | Nov 17 | Skepticism
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Tom Cowan’s has some wacky ideas, but in what world can Amazon ban a Simon & Schuster book?

Audio Clip: 0:02 ‘Hi, everybody, Hi Dr. Nic. Dr Nic this malpractice committee has received a few complaints against you.’
Alex Tsakiris: 0:12 – That’s of course the Simpsons and today’s show does dive into what some people see as medical quackery and what other people see as cutting edge conspiracy science. Here’s a clip:
Published in Nature three years ago, again in 2016. In 2016 he was on this. He can give you all the stats on the camels and how many of the camels had the virus and how many camels had the, the antibodies and then, you know, so he’s been doing that work for 10 years. So he just –
Dr. Tom Cowan: 0:49 – Show me the picture.
Alex Tsakiris: 0:46 – Show you the picture. Here’s the-
Dr. Tom Cowan: 0:49 – Your name is Alex right? Alex, right now show me the picture of the isolated virus.
Alex Tsakiris: 0:55 – Show, (Laughs)-
Dr. Tom Cowan: 0:58 – Show it to me.
Alex Tsakiris: 0:59 – Flat earth-
Dr. Tom Cowan: 1:00 – You said you believe this guy? Show me the picture.
Alex Tsakiris: 1:02 – Flat earth science. That’s what the flat earth guys do. They say, Hey, I can’t see the rest. Show me, show me.[/QUO
 
https://homeopathic.com/science-friction-homeopathy-vs-the-debunkers/

Alex I love your work and the way you think. However I am going to question the claim that Nature magazine is so prestigious. It has a history of not supporting non conventional "science".
Starting with the claim that since another person got published in Nature and knowing that it is not so respected is a logical fallacy. So from the beginning we are not following the trivium. Calling it flat earth from there is off the mark in this case, it seems to me.
 
I want to address a few things that the defenders of the orthodoxy here are saying (there's a virus because the medical gangster authorities who have been destroying public health for generations and who effectively work for greedy Big Pharma say there's a virus!!)...



dpdownsouth, who spoke in defense of ARVs (AIDS drugs), to whom Bailey is addressing, is clearly South African, since he speaks of his government's flirting with AIDS so-called denialism. That would be the government of Thabo Mbeki about 20 years ago or so. As I said in my first post, unless one gets to grips with AIDS dissent and recognizes the truth of AIDS dissent, one is not going to get to grips with COVID-19. The two are inseparable. AZT is a toxin, it has a skull and crossbones on the warning label.

View attachment 1832

Naturally this label is not on the EXACT SAME AZT that Big Pharma (GlaxoSmithKline, the conglomerate's name has changed over the years with mergers and acquisitions) give to so-called HIV positives, including pregnant women and their unborn babes!!! because as AIDS dissidents pointed out twenty years ago, who would take it then? And there was a huge role-out for AZT in South Africa and Southern Africa approx 2 decades ago. That's why Mbeki opposed it! Then again he was relying on med scientists for his info, from around the world, included virologists, biophysicists, immunologists, included one of the fathers of retrovirology Peter Duesberg at Berkeley (HIV is supposed to be a retrovirus, but that's a whole other thing) and 2 Nobel Laureate scientists, among so many other med scientists. This was not mentioned in the South African and world media really, almost wholly censored, along with the AZT warning label (see above). So if the AIDS industry was knowingly killing overwhelmingly black people in Southern Africa (and still is), all in the name of health care while Big Pharma laughs all the way to the bank, who says they are right on HIV itself?! If those who opposed this legal medical murder in Southern Africa notably and of gay men in the West before then (Freddie Mercury among so many other gay or bi men died from AZT and other ARVs) are also saying that HIV does not exist, why wouldn't you give them a hearing? And if you do, then it follows why not give corona virus COVID-19 dissidents a hearing too?

Here is the most comprehensive resource on AIDS dissent, includes links to docies, interviews, books etc.
http://www.virusmyth.org/aids/index.htm put together by the late Robert Laarhoven, let us not forget him.
The viral isolation issue here is pivotal and one needs to be familiar with Perth Group and Stefan Lanka literature here (at the link), if not you don't know squat. All of this has been of course heavily censored and misrepresented.

As far as SARS-CoV-2 is concerned, let me just say that I don't buy into the 5G conspiracy, I think it a mistake, a red herring as it were. But I can only fight so many battles here, and the pressing urgent thing is the recognition that SARS-CoV-2 does not exist; or if you refuse to accept that, at least recognize that the lockdowns are a fascist excess, a form of authoritarian control, there is no need for masks, our demon cloth protectors, and the vaccine is about as necessary as food poisoning, and has the likelihood of being a serious world-wide health disaster. Ooh old people are dying and not living forever, the world's first 'pandemic' that targets overwhelmingly the elderly, and the young hardly at all, the young at no higher rates and numbers than any other year (that is very very very rarely). And the middle-aged at no higher rates and numbers than usual, that is the usual flu/pneumonia and other cardio-respiratory illnesses even, since there is nothing unique or specific about COVID-19 whatsoever, and several governments' health depts and ministries including the US CDC, have been passing off anybody dying from cardio-respiratory complaints, including those whose symptoms cover diseases like emphysema and bronchitis as COVID dead. Far worse they have been committing brazen fraud by passing off anybody who dies who tests positive for the virus, as a COVID-19 death, even if said person died from cancer (I know of one case actually) or heart disease or stroke, even accident etc. The CDC admits doing this on its website! There are plenty of articles written by journalists and the like pointing this out. If you don't believe me, you can investigate yourself. This is cynical fraud and has inflated the world statistics here considerably. A similar thing has happened notably with African AIDS. And you trust these same gangsters on the corona virus itself?? Why?

COVID-19 flu (I MEAN THE SERIOUS CASES HERE, not just people who test positive) is as rare and unusual among the young as the annual flu/pneumonia is among the young, the average mean age of COVID-19 dead in First World countries is in many cases in the early eighties!! (if you don't see a red flag here I can't help you); so let's shut down the schools and the unis, destroy the natural social development of children and let's vaccinate them, teenagers and young and middle-aged adults, elderly who are already prone to illness and vulnerable, given frail immune systems (it's called old age you may have heard of it) en masse with untested RNA vaccine tech! Sounds like a great idea. Hey Big Pharma and their paid-off bureaucrats at the WHO, NIH, CDC, FDA, British NHS, and their counterparts around the world think it's a good idea. What could go wrong?
Thanks for that informed (IMHO) analysis.

I would just quibble on one point. Some genuine medicines are extremely toxic - think of chemotherapy treatments - but may still have beneficial uses if used at exactly the right dose. Indeed, more generally, just about all medicines are toxic if the dose is high enough.

David
 
READ "THE CONTAGION MYTH" ONLINE
https://www.yumpu.com/s/mMqcGZp4ItlAJ6sk


I haven't been able to catch up to the past day's comments, but I uploaded the book online this morning so you all can read and judge for yourselves.

If anyone can point to where Dr. Cowan claims this is all a "virus of the mind", cite exactly where.

I've wondered before if David Icke wasn't COINTELPRO, or at least controlled opposition. The fact that Alex continues to promote the notion that Dr.'s Cowan and Kaufman claim there's no illness present just because it's what David Icke says without using actual evidence from Cowan/Kaufman's work should call into question his motives as well.

Enjoy. If that link has been taken down by the time I'm able to check later tonight I'll look to re-host it somewhere else.
HolidayBrew, thanks for this. I've been reading it and my impression so far is that Cowan isn't a nut of the flat-earther kind. He's making his case logically and providing an at least plausible argument that viruses don't exist, if by that one means as disease-causing agents. All the studies on coronavirus so far haven't isolated it and injected it into healthy animals, or at least healthy cells, observing the development of the symptoms of coronavirus. At best they've injected something that is far from a pure isolate - basically just extracts from centrifuged snot. This is far from following Koch's or River's postulates.

As a matter of fact, Stefan Lanka, a phD virologist, offered a substantial prize to anyone who could demonstrate that coronavirus had been isolated. Someone claimed it had, but Lanka refused to pay up. The matter was taken to court in Germany and Lanka lost, but on appeal to the the supreme court (which was helped by a science advisor), it was ruled that what he said was true -- the virus hadn't been isolated, and so he didn't have to pay up.

Cowan thinks it's all smoke and mirrors; the PCR test just amplifies sections of genetic material and people decide by consensus which is/are derived from an whatever is responsible for COVID-19 without ever having isolated a specific virus. The cause could be anything, could have come from anything in the sample, which wasn't pure in the first place.

I find it an interesting idea that Bacteria don't cause specific illnesses; they're just correlated with them. The real cause may be toxins of various kinds (e.g. chemicals or electromagnetic radiation), and the Bacteria may be on the scene to help deal with the situation. As to viruses, they could be just the scapegoats because in Western medicine, we've come to feel certain that many apparently infectious diseases are caused by agents external to afflicted organisms. If bacteria aren't responsible, there must be other infectious agents involved.

Cue the viruses, which, unfortunately are too small to observe as they go about their putative daily business. I've seen plenty of artist impressions of viruses that illustrate their life-cycle, but once they invade a cell, the story isn't quite so convincing, not least because inside cells, there are things that look quite like viruses that may actually be endosomes subsequently released from the cell as exosomes. Who knows, maybe quite a lot of viruses are exosomes and we've got the life cycle the wrong way round: viruses don't invade and proliferate inside cells, later to be released, but instead they are first produced inside cells and are released as a way of detoxifying it.

I'm not saying I believe everything that Cowan opines; only that so far, he has made his case quite well and it's definitely plausible even if it eventually proves wrong. I can't imagine where it is that Alex has got the notion that he's a "flat-earther". It sounds like confirmation bias to me; Alex is predisposed to believe that Coronavirus has been isolated, and ergo, anyone who says it hasn't must be an idiot. But what about Stefan Lanka? His prize remains unclaimed as far as I'm aware.

I'm reminded in all this of the difference between materialists and idealists. The former maintain that conciousness is generated by matter, and the latter, that "matter" is generated by consciousness. The arrow of causation is, for idealists, exactly the wrong way round. Likewise, for Cowan, Bacteria don't cause disease, but are nonetheless often found associated with it because their purpose is to help alleviate symptoms. And maybe it's also so for viruses, which have their origins on the inside, rather than the outside, of cells.

I'm keeping an open mind, and I speak as someone who studied biology for six years at university and is reasonably familiar with the conventional narrative about the causes of infectious diseases. It might just be that Cowan is on to something, but like so many things these days, the knee-jerk reaction is for the "consensus" to do everything in its power to squelch his opinions. Looks like, in this matter (whilst he doesn't condone the censorship), Alex might have bought into the narrative and be believing that the coronavirus has been isolated and proven, through following Koch's or River's protocols, to be the cause of the disease we call COVID-19.

The only option available in these days of scientism and fake news is to maintain an attitude of healthy scepticism. One can only hope that the truth, whatever it might be, will eventually prevail and we'll know better what is really happening in our very sick world.
 
Alex posted this link which provides strong evidence the SARS-CoV-2 "Covid-19" virus was engineered to have greater Gain of Function...

https://yurideigin.medium.com/lab-m...ens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748
OK, but can't you get your head around what various people here are saying? The definition of isolating a virus changed back in the 80's to something that was less rigorous.

This is closely related - logically it should not happen, but it would seem that there is no paper proving that HIV causes AIDS!

http://www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html

The author of that piece, Kary Mullis, was (he died recently) a Nobel Prize winner for actually inventing the PCR process!

David
 
HolidayBrew, thanks for this. I've been reading it and my impression so far is that Cowan isn't a nut of the flat-earther kind. He's making his case logically and providing an at least plausible argument that viruses don't exist, if by that one means as disease-causing agents. All the studies on coronavirus so far haven't isolated it and injected it into healthy animals, or at least healthy cells, observing the development of the symptoms of coronavirus. At best they've injected something that is far from a pure isolate - basically just extracts from centrifuged snot. This is far from following Koch's or River's postulates.

As a matter of fact, Stefan Lanka, a phD virologist, offered a substantial prize to anyone who could demonstrate that coronavirus had been isolated. Someone claimed it had, but Lanka refused to pay up. The matter was taken to court in Germany and Lanka lost, but on appeal to the the supreme court (which was helped by a science advisor), it was ruled that what he said was true -- the virus hadn't been isolated, and so he didn't have to pay up.

Cowan thinks it's all smoke and mirrors; the PCR test just amplifies sections of genetic material and people decide by consensus which is/are derived from an whatever is responsible for COVID-19 without ever having isolated a specific virus. The cause could be anything, could have come from anything in the sample, which wasn't pure in the first place.

I find it an interesting idea that Bacteria don't cause specific illnesses; they're just correlated with them. The real cause may be toxins of various kinds (e.g. chemicals or electromagnetic radiation), and the Bacteria may be on the scene to help deal with the situation. As to viruses, they could be just the scapegoats because in Western medicine, we've come to feel certain that many apparently infectious diseases are caused by agents external to afflicted organisms. If bacteria aren't responsible, there must be other infectious agents involved.

Cue the viruses, which, unfortunately are too small to observe as they go about their putative daily business. I've seen plenty of artist impressions of viruses that illustrate their life-cycle, but once they invade a cell, the story isn't quite so convincing, not least because inside cells, there are things that look quite like viruses that may actually be endosomes subsequently released from the cell as exosomes. Who knows, maybe quite a lot of viruses are exosomes and we've got the life cycle the wrong way round: viruses don't invade and proliferate inside cells, later to be released, but instead they are first produced inside cells and are released as a way of detoxifying it.

I'm not saying I believe everything that Cowan opines; only that so far, he has made his case quite well and it's definitely plausible even if it eventually proves wrong. I can't imagine where it is that Alex has got the notion that he's a "flat-earther". It sounds like confirmation bias to me; Alex is predisposed to believe that Coronavirus has been isolated, and ergo, anyone who says it hasn't must be an idiot. But what about Stefan Lanka? His prize remains unclaimed as far as I'm aware.

I'm reminded in all this of the difference between materialists and idealists. The former maintain that conciousness is generated by matter, and the latter, that "matter" is generated by consciousness. The arrow of causation is, for idealists, exactly the wrong way round. Likewise, for Cowan, Bacteria don't cause disease, but are nonetheless often found associated with it because their purpose is to help alleviate symptoms. And maybe it's also so for viruses, which have their origins on the inside, rather than the outside, of cells.

I'm keeping an open mind, and I speak as someone who studied biology for six years at university and is reasonably familiar with the conventional narrative about the causes of infectious diseases. It might just be that Cowan is on to something, but like so many things these days, the knee-jerk reaction is for the "consensus" to do everything in its power to squelch his opinions. Looks like, in this matter (whilst he doesn't condone the censorship), Alex might have bought into the narrative and be believing that the coronavirus has been isolated and proven, through following Koch's or River's protocols, to be the cause of the disease we call COVID-19.

The only option available in these days of scientism and fake news is to maintain an attitude of healthy scepticism. One can only hope that the truth, whatever it might be, will eventually prevail and we'll know better what is really happening in our very sick world.
Thanks for this - I just wish Tom would drop the 5G issue - it seems like a distraction.

David
 
Charlie Primero, yes us skeptics have seen the links. Thanks for posting them up again. But no they don't address the virus isolation issue itself. Bluff and bluster and hiding behind scientific jargon hardly anybody will get to the contrary. They assume what they need to evidence (technically proof applies to mathematics and physics, or at least mathematical physics), this is circular reasoning. Round and round we go. This isn't science, it's religion and irrational religion at that. Blind faith. Their jobs, reputations and careers are on the line, they are employed by a massive industry. If they admitted they hadn't isolated the virus, even to themselves, they would have a mental breakdown; having to acknowledge they are destroying the world, putting hundreds of millions out of work, harming the mental health of billions, taking down whole industries, all in fear of a phantom that has about as much reality as unicorns and gryphons. So they double down instead, it's cognitive dissonance at play. You guys are just putting up links in a knee-jerk manner, without getting to grips with what is meant by evidencing an exogenous pathogenic antigen. Obviously the orthodoxy are going to say they are right and we are wrong, what else are they going to do? They have done it with the whole HIV isolation thing, the US NIH has replied to the Perth Group here, but once again they don't get to grips remotely with what Perth Group are saying. The US CDC claims to rebut anti-vaccine literature and claims, but they don't address the key points and uncomfortable facts that are front-and-center in the history of vaccines. Ditto your links supposedly rebutting the skeptics on the existence of SARS-CoV-2, same denialism and bluff and bluster at play. The out-and-out fraud of corona virus testing, different tests give different results, same tests give different results, is consistent with the fact that they don't have a virus, not they have one, it's just impossible to detect accurately with the assays! One sees the same thing with HIV and HIV testing.

My point is where is the beef? The so-called corona virus experts dismissing the skeptics, have removed viruses so they say, from patients and cultured them in vitro. So? One can remove all kinds of endogenous 'virus' like particles from people, animals, plants, whether they be healthy or sick, culture them, add them to other proteins, and then observe various reactions. They often add all kinds of chemical additives to stimulate a growth response in the in vitro cultures. Thing is the chemical additive is then a contaminant, intentional or not, and it muddies the results, you don't have a pure isolate in that case. In fact not even close. What about density gradient centrifugation? This is fundamental to virus isolation the last few decades. Which of your debunkers of the skeptics get to grips with any of this? And even if centrifugation is employed, you still need to do more. You have to show that your so-called virus isolates band at the requisite recognized g/ml level. And that the isolate at the requisite centrifugation banding then confirms to the morphology and size, chemistry, genetics of the family of viruses you are looking for. Electron photomicrograph necessary here of purified virus. That's still not enough. It's necessary but it's not enough. There are other problems here as well but I can't write a book here. Have to say though that your links do not address remotely the nitty-gritty isolation issue whatsoever that Cowan, Kaufman and Frei and Lanka get to grips with, each in their own way.

We all have virus-like particles in our bodies, all plants, and animals do. And we can't live without them. Bacteria too. Bacteria cannot exist without bacteriophages, which were originally classified as solely infectious viruses of the bacterium. This is actually a huge thing that I do not expand on here, but it deserves a book length treatment. And without bacteria there is no life, not in the oceans and not on land. There would be no life on earth without virus-like particles that in every way are indistinguishable from so-called pathogenic viruses, that is in terms of their size, morphology, genetics, chemistry, their dynamical activity within the cell and other considerations, such as the recognition that these endogenous (from within the body) virus-like particles are involved in disease processes, such as in signalling disease to the body, the immune system, the central nervous system. Virus-like particles are even involved in programmed cell death. Not as causative in disease but as mediators in disease processes, and so much more. And if anything this work is in its infancy. We still don't know so much. NONE OF THIS WAS KNOWN WHEN THE 'SCIENCE' OF VIROLOGY WAS BIRTHED, NOT AT ALL. This has its own huge earthquake repercussions that I realize will sail over a lot of people's heads.

The biological cell is a miracle and we still know so little, much of it remains an undiscovered country. There has been a revolution in genetics in the last few decades that has overturned everything we thought we knew. And they are still figuring things out. Epigenetics is blowing the old genetics out of the water. And genetics itself has been oversold, biomechanics and biophysics are being reckoned to play a bigger role in living organisms than was previously recognized, in the structure and organization of the phenotype and its functioning/dynamics. What does this have to do with virology? Everything. It means if genetics had got so much wrong for decades, why should virology be such a sacred cow? And virology and genetics are intertwined.

I talk about the AIDS disaster, but this is also tip of the iceberg stuff... Should we get on to the polio scandal, that is huge, the scandal of neurosyphilis, the hepatitis virus nonsense (not just hep C), the swine flu scandal of '76? More and more...
 
David Bailey, I agree with you on 5G. It is a distraction and a red herring, but I can't spend all day on my laptop pointing out the problems with the 5G conspiracy. I focus on the more pressing urgent controversies, since right now the medical gangster authorities are literally destroying the world, it is unprecedented, but also in hindsight inevitable. I don't really care if people believe in 5G, as long as they recognize the far more important issue of the lockdown insanity, social distancing and mask rubbish and related, including the vaccine horror down the pipeline, the witch-mark testing for the corona virus, on its own this is a huge scandal. But yes can we drop the 5G thing please. Just have to add that the guilt by association argument of tarring every virus dissident with a background in medicine (Cowan, Kaufmann etc.) with David Icke is just that, an untenable guilt by association argument; a rather lame attempt to dismiss the former and so not even look at what they are actually saying in their own words. Unlike most everybody including your public health 'experts' that are not, Cowan, Frei, Kaufmann, Lanka know a lot about virology and the disastrous gangsterism that is Big Medicine, past and present. I do consider the David Icke thing a problem, that is the support he gets from many among the public who are lockdown skeptics, but this is the reality of the paranoid style of Western politics and related. It's there with AIDS and vaccine dissent as well. But at the end of the day, shouting Icke Icke, just gets off the point. The whole viral isolation issue that is, and the fact that those who put forward this position are not David Icke, but med men and women with a significant knowledge here. I have to say that compared to the medical Big Pharma mafia currently destroying our lives, in so many ways, Icke a paranoid eccentric who doesn't really know anything, is small fry.

David, I realize there would be a few David Baileys in this world, that's for sure, but are you the same David Bailey of Sai Baba 'The Findings' fame?
 
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OK, but can't you get your head around what various people here are saying? The definition of isolating a virus changed back in the 80's to something that was less rigorous.
I can. People in this thread are saying SARS-Cov-2 has not been isolated when in fact it has, many times, as evidenced by the studies linked to in this article...

https://www.aap.com.au/proof-the-virus-behind-covid-19-doesnt-exist-fails-basic-biology-test/

The Covid-19 pandemic is a horrible scam that I wish to stop. People who deny the virus exists help perpetuate the scam by making anyone who questions authority look foolish.
 
I can. People in this thread are saying SARS-Cov-2 has not been isolated when in fact it has, many times, as evidenced by the studies linked to in this article...

https://www.aap.com.au/proof-the-virus-behind-covid-19-doesnt-exist-fails-basic-biology-test/

The Covid-19 pandemic is a horrible scam that I wish to stop. People who deny the virus exists help perpetuate the scam by making anyone who questions authority look foolish.
You can post all the links you want. What I want to see is any example in the case of COVID-19 where Koch's and/or River's postulates were rigorously followed. So search for one paper that has done this rather than simply using PCR techniques to identify something that allegedly causes the disease in a pile of snot. It should be quite simple to identify that paper and provide the link. Stop bombarding us with lots of links and focus on that one. I wait with baited breath for that one link. If you're right, I'll hold my hand up.
 
OK, but can't you get your head around what various people here are saying? The definition of isolating a virus changed back in the 80's to something that was less rigorous.

This is closely related - logically it should not happen, but it would seem that there is no paper proving that HIV causes AIDS!

http://www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html

The author of that piece, Kary Mullis, was (he died recently) a Nobel Prize winner for actually inventing the PCR process!

David

Yes I know. Good point. Kary Mullis was an AIDS dissident and as you say invented PCR, for which he won the Noble Prize in chemistry in 1993. He died last year.

The patent for PCR was sold for hundreds of millions of dollars back in 1991 (haven't checked, but if I remember right 300 million USD). If memory serves it remains the most ever paid for a scientific patent in history. PCR is used in everything from paternity testing to medical forensics. Thing is the PCR they use for virus testing is a quantitative PCR, run a lot of cycles off primers, and there is no standard for how many cycles to run. The experts, so-called make it up as they go along really and there is no world-wide standard. Different cycles will give different results. The more cycles you run, as Mullis pointed out, the more false positives you get, because of an amplification of contaminant problem. There are other complicated issues as well. Thing is Mullis made it clear that a quantitative PCR was a scientific oxymoron (his words), and that you cannot use that technique to test for viruses. Guess what they are using to test for corona virus? Among other assays, also PCR. And PCR is one of the major assays they use, let us be clear, including in the USA. And they ignore completely what its inventor said about it, even as he won the Nobel Prize for it, and was considered the Isaac Newton of biochemistry thanks to his invention. PCR revolutionized the probing of genetic sequences. It was a watershed. HO HUM YAWN.

Now just stop and think about this for a moment. The whole world has shut down, whole industries are killed, schools are shut, tourism is dead, trillions have been written off the world economy, hundreds of millions out of work, or lost significant income, social distancing, demon cloth protectors, major cities around the world reduced to ghost towns, all dependent on the assumption that the corona virus testing is above board. Accurate and reliable. And much of the testing around the world is PCR testing. And the guy who invented it, said hang on you can't use PCR to test for viruses, technically the genetic sequence...

Come again? COME AGAIN?? !!!! So who here thinks he knows how PCR works better than the scientist who invented it? Most everybody will have to look up what it even stands for. Do you think public health 'experts' know better than Mullis? Welcome to the surreal modern nightmare that is virology and Big Medicine. Can't make it up.
 
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