Dr. Tom Cowan Insists We Show Him Covid-19 |472|

I skimmed through the discussion here and have a distinct impression that several issues are conflated here - is there a cov-19 virus? are there viruses at all? is the pandemic real?, etc.

agreed.

show... surely could have been done better.

agreed

I am honestly intrigued by alternatives to germ theory, but have not had time to look much into them. A few observations: (1) The terrain theory does not preclude the existence of microbes or viruses.

agreed... I never dived into this germ theory versus terrain theory debate enough to understand how these hard lines get drawn. the basics of terrain theory seem like common sense to me.

If you ask me whether PCR can be used for making a case for pandemic - no.

agreed

Are the draconian measures to combat the covid justified by science - totally not, etc. This what we need to concentrate on.

agreed

And yet a lot of people put all of their intellectual capital on whether or not covid virus exists.

agreed. and it's worth at least considering who benefits from allowing "flat earthers" (i.e. there is no covid-19 virus) to keep the message going. I'm not saying this is what's driving it... just worth keeping an eye on it

Chances are it was already isolated in fairly pure form (btw, 100% purity is impossible - ask any chemist, so all those criteria for isolating pure virus seem to be not more than hair splitting, actually). Please note, this fact does not negate the actually problematic points, such as PCR testing, etc.

agreed



Whether or not it was engineered (assuming the virus does exist) is imho not that important either and can actually be part of the psyop trick - be afraid, be even more afraid, it is not just a virus - it's a frigging bioweapon!!! It might well be, but again, this is not the issue. The issue is how the situation is being abused.

I think it's an issue definitely needs to be wrestled to the ground... but I get your point in that it isn't of the highest priority right now... IMO.

These are my two long cents.

thx. and welcome :)
 
I've been listening to the show for about 4 years and I am really grateful to Alex for his tremendous work. After listening to the last show, I came here to express my disappointment in how it was handled (as a few people already did here), but also to support Alex in his general assessment of the issue at hand.

I skimmed through the discussion here and have a distinct impression that several issues are conflated here - is there a cov-19 virus? are there viruses at all? is the pandemic real?, etc.

Let's look at a couple of issues: for example, the start of the thread (and a quote from the show):

"Dr. Tom Cowan: 0:49 – Show me the picture."

Well, in terms of making his point, the esteemed Dr. Tom lost quite a bit of credibility in my eyes right there. There are plenty of pictures out there: see https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/novel-coronavirus-sarscov2-images and there were a few more links on this thread I believe. You can argue whether they are real or not, or that those particles don't do much. But he asked for a picture, not something like "show me those particles work". It's a huge red flag right there and I understand why Alex threw the "flat Earth" at him, which is totally fine in a pro session, but for a show aimed at a broad audience - surely could have been done better.

I am honestly intrigued by alternatives to germ theory, but have not had time to look much into them. A few observations: (1) The terrain theory does not preclude the existence of microbes or viruses. Yes, a weakened system is more susceptible, but I have not seen (yet) a proof that microbes and viruses do not actually cause harm or infection. (2) Environmental factors do play a role, but the seasonality, differences in symptoms among different events attributed to viruses or microbes in the same geographic areas do not give much credence to the environmental factors alone. Yet, (3) penicillin saved countless lives, (4) take antibiotics and inflammation goes away, (5) there are lab techniques that use viruses to transfer genes, (6) there are gene therapies using viruses, etc. I can list a few more observations and all of them make me quite skeptical about the intellectual viability of the alternatives. I am still open to the possibility that there are viable alternatives and will try to research them further.

However, this is not really a central point at this time. I am not biologist/virologist/etc., but studied microbiology and biochemistry back in the day. If you ask me whether PCR can be used for making a case for pandemic - no. Are the draconian measures to combat the covid justified by science - totally not, etc. This what we need to concentrate on. And yet a lot of people put all of their intellectual capital on whether or not covid virus exists. Chances are it was already isolated in fairly pure form (btw, 100% purity is impossible - ask any chemist, so all those criteria for isolating pure virus seem to be not more than hair splitting, actually). Please note, this fact does not negate the actually problematic points, such as PCR testing, etc.

Whether or not it was engineered (assuming the virus does exist) is imho not that important either and can actually be part of the psyop trick - be afraid, be even more afraid, it is not just a virus - it's a frigging bioweapon!!! It might well be, but again, this is not the issue. The issue is how the situation is being abused.

These are my two long cents.

BTW, why on earth is the "flat earth" so popular? Are there not plenty of other proofs of disinfo that are actually provable and much more relevant? But this is off topic.

Take care.

My thoughts exactly.
 
"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck

Dr. Stefan Lanka The Virus Misconception Part 1
GeoDoorn, why don't you familiarize yourself with virus dissident literature, before you say wincing groan-inducing things like, "There are plenty of pictures out there: see https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/novel-coronavirus-sarscov2-images and there were a few more links on this thread I believe".

It's like hitting one's head against a brick wall. You clearly haven't read any virus dissident literature and if you have read anything I and others have said here skeptical of the corona virus, citing Cowan, Kaufmann, Lanka and others (I would add Rosemary Frei, also Perth Group literature on HIV, which has its own implications to virology as a whole), you haven't even bothered to read what they write or speak about. You certainly don't understand it, even superficially and in outline. You also don't understand anything us corona virus skeptics are saying right here on the forum re virus isolation, purified virus (myself, Larkin, Viberaider, Bailey). Obviously NIAID is going to say they have the virus, relying as they know they can on the public not knowing anything, doctors not knowing anything, and everybody else being in their pocket, or part of the Old Boys' Gangster Medical Mafia Network and/or indoctrinated into their virus mania worldview. They know they can get away with anything, they always have. What else are they going to say? Would they say: 'Oh the virus dissidents may be right, we don't have a virus, we made a mistake, you lost your job, couldn't travel, we terrified you for no reason, turned the cities of the world into ghost towns over a phantom that doesn't exist, had you wearing a demon cloth protector for no reason, couldn't go to a family funeral, canceled a wedding ha ha sorry, please forgive us, let's move on, and don't forget to trust us when we claim another virus devastating the world.' Uh I don't think so. It's basic psychology, it's cognitive dissonance. Their job is practically defined by selling virus mania, and the selling of pharma drugs and vaccines in the wake of virus and germ mania. So that's what they do.

I have written elsewhere on this thread that we all have ENDOGENOUS (synthesized within our own cells) virus-like particles in our bodies, as have others here, extra-cellular vesicles such as exosomes and endosomes, there are also mobile genetic elements (MGEs), such as transposons, retroelements inclusive of retrotransposons and endogenous retroviruses. The science here is relatively new. It has huge ramifications to everything from evolutionary biology to ontogeny, illness and health, microevolution, phenotypic plasticity, adaptivity, virology and more. Such ENDOGENOUS bioparticles are indistinguishable in terms of morphology, size, DNA and RNA nucleotides, including number of sequences, proteins, loci within the cells, their dynamical activity and other traits, from putative EXOGENOUS AND SO-CALLED PATHOGENIC viruses. Inclusive of positive and negative sense DNA and RNA, single strand, double strand. SARS-CoV-2 for example is classified as a single strand negative sense RNA virus. All this stuff about ENDOGENOUS extra-cellular vesicles and MGEs were not remotely known about not only in the early days of virology, even well after WW2, not even when Crick, Watson, Wilkins, made the breakthrough on the DNA helix structure in the fifties, and the quaternary code here. It really begins in the 1960s and 70s, and even then our knowledge here was rudimentary, coarse. I realize that what I write here - and I have alluded to the same thing in a different way on this very lengthy thread topic now - is not going to be understood or appreciated by knee-jerk hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-in-virology skeptics who do not get to grips with basic cellular biology, genetics, virology, and the history of genetics, cellular biology and virology, along with the history of modern medicine and its fair share of disasters, blunders and fraud, its iatrogenic murder and maiming, but that's how it goes. And unless you do so, why do you think you know what you are talking about?

The Gangster Medical Mafia, whose jobs and reputations are wedded to virus mania and are on a huge power kick here, say they have a picture! I have seen it myself! So there! This is just naive and it also reflects on know-nothingness. If they have a virus, why is their testing all over the place? People are positive then negative, routinely on the same day. Elon Musk goes for a test, he is positive twice, negative twice, same rapid test, same machine, same nurse. He says this and that this testing is bogus (all in a Tweet). No kidding. I could have told him. Plenty of stories like this on social media. Musk is just famous, so it got some attention. Different tests give different results and the same tests, as Musk discovered, give different results. That's consistent with there being no virus, not there being one. It's what those of us who say there is no virus would predict. They are detecting endogenous enzymes and/or nucleotides (depending on the assay), not any exogenous viral proteins or RNA (or its DNA complement, as with PCR testing, technically RT-PCR), enzymes in antibodies (having nothing to do with SPECIFIC SARS-CoV-2 antibodies which do not exist because the virus does not exist, lying to the contrary, and I haven't even gotten onto the problem of antibody polyspecificity), lying to the contrary. If they have a virus that is exogenous and pathogenic, then their test results should be consistent. They are not. And for the reasons I state in this paragraph, they don't have a virus sigh. See the same thing with HIV testing. And for the same reason - there is no HIV. What is it about Kary Mullis and his commentary on PCR testing for viruses (rather their nucleotide sequences per se) that I wrote about yesterday that you didn't get? You know better than Mullis? You didn't read it? You didn't understand it? You don't think it matters? I notice the true believers here don't even seem to care, they didn't read my post here re Mullis and PCR or they greet it with a shrug, yeah yawn so what? No big deal yawn. I said and predicted as much in that very post of mine. It's religious, this virus mania, there is no science here.

This is tip of the iceberg stuff, but I realize it makes no difference to the true believers who can't and won't get to grips with medical dissident literature on viruses, or even watch the videos, listen to the podcasts. I don't write for such people, because it's a waste of time. I write for those who I hope are reading this thread, and who are more open minded here, and actually read and DIGEST what us virus dissidents are saying. And look into it for themselves, instead of not wanting to know and running off to Big Mafia Medicine for the soothing lies.

Here is a challenge: read the AIDS dissident literature, I have already put up a link to the biggest resource which would keep anybody so interested busy for years even (virusmyth.org), if the true virus believers are not going to read it, watch the doccies etc. why should we take you seriously when you dismiss in the same way corona virus dissent? Clearly you lot for the most part just don't want to know. I am repeating myself because none of you true believers in da virus get to grips with anything us skeptics are saying. If I had no idea what AIDS dissidents were saying, but somebody told me such a thing existed and there were med scientists from all backgrounds (virology, immunology, genetics, molecular biology, biophysics, Ivy League included), from around the world, including one of the fathers of retrovirology and Nobel Laureate scientists, who held such a position; and a fair number of gay men who were at ground zero in NY and San Fran back in the eighties, I would be more than a little curious. What do they say causes GRID (as AIDS was originally called, gay related immune deficiency), African AIDS, what do they say about HIV? I would make the time to investigate. That's what I did near 20 years ago. So here to the true believers: what are AIDS dissidents saying about gay AIDS in toto (that is the multiple causes), and how come the orthodoxy do not acknowledge any of this? Wow I wonder why.... I'm just talking about gay AIDS here, I have not even got onto the HIV isolation issue, testing, African AIDS, ARVs. And if you don't want to know even about gay AIDS, never mind the HIV isolation issue, then why would you want to know about the SARS-CoV-2 isolation issue? Well you don't. So if you can't answer the gay AIDS thing (and it's not so easy or simple, even if you are open minded here and start going through the dissident literature, and I'm talking - what AIDS dissidents are saying in their own words. It takes some time, not just a day or two), you are not going to get to grips with the keystone nitty-gritty science that is HIV isolation and ipso facto any other kind of virus isolation claim, the latest corona virus included. From a dissident perspective I mean.

Going by the true believer responses here, knee-jerk and dismissive, one would have no idea about the first thing relating to corona virus dissent, and what the likes of Cowan, Frei, Kaufmann, Crowe, Lanka, Kohnlein (whose book 'Virus Mania' has now been updated to include COVID-19, co-authored with Engelbrecht) are actually saying, not even vaguely. And again one would not know anything whatsoever about HIV/AIDS dissent, nothing, going by the true believers here, the huge polio scandal and more. You all don't want to know. People are indoctrinated by germ mania from infancy really, in the same way people in the Middle Ages and even more so if anything in the Renaissance period, were indoctrinated in the belief in the threat of diabolical witchcraft, to their religion and their very lives. Burn the witches! However, in terms of killing efficiency and power and reach (it's the whole earth now) and speed at spreading terror (the Holy Inquisition never had the Internet, social media and mass media, TV news, radio) and fear of phantoms, the Holy Inquisition and the witch finders of old ain't got nothing on WHO, NIH, CDC, NIAID, British NHS, med journals and medical associations the world over, the fawning media etc. Move over Matthew Hopkins Witchfinder General, you ain't got nothing on Anthony Fauci, who let us not forget, was a senior figure in the AIDS Inquistion at NIAID before he moved onto COVID-19 terror. Those witch hunters of old, they are amateur hour and inefficient killers, compared to the brutal efficiency of Big Pharma Big Mafia Germ Mania Medicine that now rules over every aspect of our lives and jobs. And is destroying the world, our economies and our everyday contacts, routines and relationships. It's quite something to behold.

Thank you for taking the time to write that all out so plainly and effectively. If they would just take a deep breath, stop repeating the mantra that Alex gave them (it’s flat earth science) and really look into the history of virology, it might open some minds.
 
Nice try. I meant, go through the whole paper and describe what is being said in plain English.

Admit it, you can't, can you? As it happens, neither can I, mainly because it happens to be heavily jargonised. If anyone can decipher the paper, explaining what the acronyms mean, etc., please do so as it will enable us to get to the bottom of this.
David Crowe does a pretty good job of making it understandable. Theinfectiousmyth.com.
 
I desire to learn also... I think clearing the underbrush of flat earthers is a necessary first step.
You’re being childish, calling us “flat earthers”. My Mother died from “AIDS”. That’s what made me research all this. Nobody dies from the earth being round. My mother was told she had a “virus” that was making her sick. I am not a “flat earther”. You posted that you haven’t looked deeply into terrain vs germ theory... yeah, no shit. It’s obvious you don’t want to look deeper into this because you found a comfortable perch of “they made a bioweapon in a lab” and you don’t want to see the bigger picture. Virology, from the beginning has been a coverup of the true environmental causes of illness; malnutrition, pollution, emotional trauma... you’re losing all the respect I had for you, by continuing with this insult hurling.
 
Alex,

Here is the place to look. Viberaider pointed you at a page announcing the death of David Crowe, but here is the real starting point to begin understanding this issue:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/index2.php

The explanation regarding isolation of the virus is discussed here:
https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/IsolationVersusPurification.php

Please read this and if you don't understand it all, check with Viberaider or Wonder Awakening, or indeed Michael Larkin before waffling on further about flat earthers! I'd suggest you do this by PM to avoid cluttering this thread with more junk.

The only aspect of this story which probably is wrong, is the 5G distraction - also explained nicely by David Crowe here:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/5G.php

I am not averse to the idea that the 5G nonsense was deliberately introduced as a distraction from the truth.

Finally, please read this comment by David Crowe:
A Plea for Informed Skepticism

It is important to be skeptical, because in this world we are lied to all the time. But alternative stories are not always accurate even if you know that the mainstream story is wrong. It is important, when faced with an explanation for a phenomenon to first verify that the phenomenon is occurring, and then decide what data is required to verify the reasonableness of this new theory. In the case of coronavirus in Wuhan, there are many questions that need to be asked about the 5G theory, including whether there is a surplus of deaths, were the victims in Wuhan more likely to be exposed to 5G than others, whether 5G installations occur in all other places where the coronavirus is supposedly attacking, whether severe damage from low levels of radio frequency energy is plausible, and so on.

There is an unfortunate tendency among people who are skeptical of the mainstream (medicine or other areas) to unskeptically believe any theory that is implicitly critical of the mainstream. Substituting fear of an imaginary virus for fear of a new technology, is not informed skepticism.

On a personal note I find it bizarre that people will praise my coronavirus article because it is so careful to base each point on a simple interpretation of a medical paper, government document, newspaper article etc, and then after having explained how the coronavirus panic is happening, people ignore everything that I said, and revert back to 5G as a simplistic explanation for a phenomenon that might not even be happening. Another characteristic of my work is that I will mention contrary findings when they are relevant, yet what I have seen is that even scientific proponents of damage from radio waves only mention research that is favorable to their position.

David
 
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very cool that you've done this research to the mix. if this was my main interest I would pursue it, but it's not. my main interest in this topic is the flat earth science phenomenon.

So I would ask that you really put to the test the folks who are claiming " there is no covid-19 virus" ask them to confirm:
"...in animal world FIP is a deadly virus that has a horrible death at the end"

they will not. it does not fit in there flat earth "viruses don't cause illness" world.

I actually believe in the basics of terrain theory... it's good common sense... and back by science... I just think flat earthers take it too far.

The other question to ask them is your earlier one, "would you be willing to allow yourself to be injected with the ebola virus?"

your questions will probably get long-winded responses that never really get around to answering the questions, but at least you'll see the game at hand.
Alex,

Here is the place to look. Viberaider pointed you at a page announcing the death of David Crowe, but here is the real starting point to begin understanding this issue:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/index2.php

The explanation regarding isolation of the virus is discussed here:
https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/IsolationVersusPurification.php

Please read this and if you don't understand it all, check with Viberaider or Wonder Awakening, or indeed Michael Larkin before waffling on further about flat earthers! I'd suggest you do this by PM to avoid cluttering this thread with more junk.

The only aspect of this story which probably is wrong, is the 5G distraction - also explained nicely by David Crowe here:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/5G.php

I am not averse to the idea that the 5G nonsense was deliberately introduced as a distraction from the truth.

Finally, please read this comment by David Crowe:


David
I've had a look, but can't find discussion of the Harcourt et al. paper specifically. Is it there, and can you direct me to it? TIA.
oh, I apologize. I just meant in general, David Crowe does a good job of making it pretty clear that what they say they are doing when they “isolate a virus” is not actually isolating an exogenous pathogenic agent
I've had a look, but can't find discussion of the Harcourt et al. paper specifically. Is it there, and can you direct me to it? TIA.[/
 
I've had a look, but can't find discussion of the Harcourt et al. paper specifically. Is it there, and can you direct me to it? TIA.

I apologize, I was just saying that David Crowe does a good job in general of explaining how their “purification process” is not actually isolating any exogenous pathogenic entity
 
Alex,

Here is the place to look. Viberaider pointed you at a page announcing the death of David Crowe, but here is the real starting point to begin understanding this issue:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/index2.php

The explanation regarding isolation of the virus is discussed here:
https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/IsolationVersusPurification.php

Please read this and if you don't understand it all, check with Viberaider or Wonder Awakening, or indeed Michael Larkin before waffling on further about flat earthers! I'd suggest you do this by PM to avoid cluttering this thread with more junk.

The only aspect of this story which probably is wrong, is the 5G distraction - also explained nicely by David Crowe here:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/5G.php

I am not averse to the idea that the 5G nonsense was deliberately introduced as a distraction from the truth.

Finally, please read this comment by David Crowe:


David
I’m sorry, I seem to not fully understand how to post and respond well on this message board. Once I start a reply, I don’t know how to drop it or delete it. Thank you for being patient with me. I’m not really a computer savvy person. I agree about the 5G distraction. In my opinion, the 5G is necessary as part of the 4th industrial revolution, test and trace, zoom meetings, etc... Even as part of a grand Eugenics plot to reduce population, airborne poisons and radio waves would lack the specificity of an injection or tainted food supply
 
Hey, Alex

I see your evil book no longer has a page at Amazon. Will you get it back? What a shame.

As for the Cowan interview, have you thought of just deleting the whole episode?
 
GeoDoorn, why don't you familiarize yourself with virus dissident literature, before you say wincing groan-inducing things like, "There are plenty of pictures out there: see https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/novel-coronavirus-sarscov2-images and there were a few more links on this thread I believe".

It's like hitting one's head against a brick wall. You clearly haven't read any virus dissident literature and if you have read anything I and others have said here skeptical of the corona virus, citing Cowan, Kaufmann, Lanka and others (I would add Rosemary Frei, also Perth Group literature on HIV, which has its own implications to virology as a whole), you haven't even bothered to read what they write or speak about. You certainly don't understand it, even superficially and in outline. You also don't understand anything us corona virus skeptics are saying right here on the forum re virus isolation, purified virus (myself, Larkin, Viberaider, Bailey). Obviously NIAID is going to say they have the virus, relying as they know they can on the public not knowing anything, doctors not knowing anything, and everybody else being in their pocket, or part of the Old Boys' Gangster Medical Mafia Network and/or indoctrinated into their virus mania worldview. They know they can get away with anything, they always have. What else are they going to say? Would they say: 'Oh the virus dissidents may be right, we don't have a virus, we made a mistake, you lost your job, couldn't travel, we terrified you for no reason, turned the cities of the world into ghost towns over a phantom that doesn't exist, had you wearing a demon cloth protector for no reason, couldn't go to a family funeral, canceled a wedding ha ha sorry, please forgive us, let's move on, and don't forget to trust us when we claim another virus devastating the world.' Uh I don't think so. It's basic psychology, it's cognitive dissonance. Their job is practically defined by selling virus mania, and the selling of pharma drugs and vaccines in the wake of virus and germ mania. So that's what they do.

I have written elsewhere on this thread that we all have ENDOGENOUS (synthesized within our own cells) virus-like particles in our bodies, as have others here, extra-cellular vesicles such as exosomes and endosomes, there are also mobile genetic elements (MGEs), such as transposons, retroelements inclusive of retrotransposons and endogenous retroviruses. The science here is relatively new. It has huge ramifications to everything from evolutionary biology to ontogeny, illness and health, microevolution, phenotypic plasticity, adaptivity, virology and more. Such ENDOGENOUS bioparticles are indistinguishable in terms of morphology, size, DNA and RNA nucleotides, including number of sequences, proteins, loci within the cells, their dynamical activity and other traits, from putative EXOGENOUS AND SO-CALLED PATHOGENIC viruses. Inclusive of positive and negative sense DNA and RNA, single strand, double strand. SARS-CoV-2 for example is classified as a single strand negative sense RNA virus. All this stuff about ENDOGENOUS extra-cellular vesicles and MGEs were not remotely known about not only in the early days of virology, even well after WW2, not even when Crick, Watson, Wilkins, made the breakthrough on the DNA helix structure in the fifties, and the quaternary code here. It really begins in the 1960s and 70s, and even then our knowledge here was rudimentary, coarse. I realize that what I write here - and I have alluded to the same thing in a different way on this very lengthy thread topic now - is not going to be understood or appreciated by knee-jerk hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-in-virology skeptics who do not get to grips with basic cellular biology, genetics, virology, and the history of genetics, cellular biology and virology, along with the history of modern medicine and its fair share of disasters, blunders and fraud, its iatrogenic murder and maiming, but that's how it goes. And unless you do so, why do you think you know what you are talking about?

The Gangster Medical Mafia, whose jobs and reputations are wedded to virus mania and are on a huge power kick here, say they have a picture! I have seen it myself! So there! This is just naive and it also reflects on know-nothingness. If they have a virus, why is their testing all over the place? People are positive then negative, routinely on the same day. Elon Musk goes for a test, he is positive twice, negative twice, same rapid test, same machine, same nurse. He says this and that this testing is bogus (all in a Tweet). No kidding. I could have told him. Plenty of stories like this on social media. Musk is just famous, so it got some attention. Different tests give different results and the same tests, as Musk discovered, give different results. That's consistent with there being no virus, not there being one. It's what those of us who say there is no virus would predict. They are detecting endogenous enzymes and/or nucleotides (depending on the assay), not any exogenous viral proteins or RNA (or its DNA complement, as with PCR testing, technically RT-PCR), enzymes in antibodies (having nothing to do with SPECIFIC SARS-CoV-2 antibodies which do not exist because the virus does not exist, lying to the contrary, and I haven't even gotten onto the problem of antibody polyspecificity), lying to the contrary. If they have a virus that is exogenous and pathogenic, then their test results should be consistent. They are not. And for the reasons I state in this paragraph, they don't have a virus sigh. See the same thing with HIV testing. And for the same reason - there is no HIV. What is it about Kary Mullis and his commentary on PCR testing for viruses (rather their nucleotide sequences per se) that I wrote about yesterday that you didn't get? You know better than Mullis? You didn't read it? You didn't understand it? You don't think it matters? I notice the true believers here don't even seem to care, they didn't read my post here re Mullis and PCR or they greet it with a shrug, yeah yawn so what? No big deal yawn. I said and predicted as much in that very post of mine. It's religious, this virus mania, there is no science here.

This is tip of the iceberg stuff, but I realize it makes no difference to the true believers who can't and won't get to grips with medical dissident literature on viruses, or even watch the videos, listen to the podcasts. I don't write for such people, because it's a waste of time. I write for those who I hope are reading this thread, and who are more open minded here, and actually read and DIGEST what us virus dissidents are saying. And look into it for themselves, instead of not wanting to know and running off to Big Mafia Medicine for the soothing lies.

Here is a challenge: read the AIDS dissident literature, I have already put up a link to the biggest resource which would keep anybody so interested busy for years even (virusmyth.org), if the true virus believers are not going to read it, watch the doccies etc. why should we take you seriously when you dismiss in the same way corona virus dissent? Clearly you lot for the most part just don't want to know. I am repeating myself because none of you true believers in da virus get to grips with anything us skeptics are saying. If I had no idea what AIDS dissidents were saying, but somebody told me such a thing existed and there were med scientists from all backgrounds (virology, immunology, genetics, molecular biology, biophysics, Ivy League included), from around the world, including one of the fathers of retrovirology and Nobel Laureate scientists, who held such a position; and a fair number of gay men who were at ground zero in NY and San Fran back in the eighties, I would be more than a little curious. What do they say causes GRID (as AIDS was originally called, gay related immune deficiency), African AIDS, what do they say about HIV? I would make the time to investigate. That's what I did near 20 years ago. So here to the true believers: what are AIDS dissidents saying about gay AIDS in toto (that is the multiple causes), and how come the orthodoxy do not acknowledge any of this? Wow I wonder why.... I'm just talking about gay AIDS here, I have not even got onto the HIV isolation issue, testing, African AIDS, ARVs. And if you don't want to know even about gay AIDS, never mind the HIV isolation issue, then why would you want to know about the SARS-CoV-2 isolation issue? Well you don't. So if you can't answer the gay AIDS thing (and it's not so easy or simple, even if you are open minded here and start going through the dissident literature, and I'm talking - what AIDS dissidents are saying in their own words. It takes some time, not just a day or two), you are not going to get to grips with the keystone nitty-gritty science that is HIV isolation and ipso facto any other kind of virus isolation claim, the latest corona virus included. From a dissident perspective I mean.

Going by the true believer responses here, knee-jerk and dismissive, one would have no idea about the first thing relating to corona virus dissent, and what the likes of Cowan, Frei, Kaufmann, Crowe, Lanka, Kohnlein (whose book 'Virus Mania' has now been updated to include COVID-19, co-authored with Engelbrecht) are actually saying, not even vaguely. And again one would not know anything whatsoever about HIV/AIDS dissent, nothing, going by the true believers here, the huge polio scandal and more. You all don't want to know. People are indoctrinated by germ mania from infancy really, in the same way people in the Middle Ages and even more so if anything in the Renaissance period, were indoctrinated in the belief in the threat of diabolical witchcraft, to their religion and their very lives. Burn the witches! However, in terms of killing efficiency and power and reach (it's the whole earth now) and speed at spreading terror (the Holy Inquisition never had the Internet, social media and mass media, TV news, radio) and fear of phantoms, the Holy Inquisition and the witch finders of old ain't got nothing on WHO, NIH, CDC, NIAID, British NHS, med journals and medical associations the world over, the fawning media etc. Move over Matthew Hopkins Witchfinder General, you ain't got nothing on Anthony Fauci, who let us not forget, was a senior figure in the AIDS Inquistion at NIAID before he moved onto COVID-19 terror. Those witch hunters of old, they are amateur hour and inefficient killers, compared to the brutal efficiency of Big Pharma Big Mafia Germ Mania Medicine that now rules over every aspect of our lives and jobs. And is destroying the world, our economies and our everyday contacts, routines and relationships. It's quite something to behold.

stripedcatfrommars, thanks for the reply. I said that I only skimmed the thread and am planning to dive deeper into the alternatives. One should also be able to easily deduce from what I said that I am totally against the way the situation with covid (whatever it is) is handled. You either missed it or your reading comprehension is on a level that does not give much hope for your cause. For now I will assume the former.

Actually, before writing that post I did dive into some of the material that was thrown around in this thread. I also just read the Isolation vs Purification by Cowan and I must say I am less than impressed (will try to find time to explain a bit later).

Still, I cannot claim I dived deep enough - I don't have much free time, please excuse me. However, you, or anybody else in this forum who are proponents of the alternatives to the germ theory, could do everybody a great favor and answer at least some of the observations that I listed in my post that make me quite skeptical. It would certainly increase my motivation to read the materials you are promoting. Answering my observations/concerns should not take 10 authors, 20 books and a gazillion of websites.

Thanks is advance :)
 
GeoDoorn, why don't you familiarize yourself with virus dissident literature, before you say wincing groan-inducing things like, "There are plenty of pictures out there: see https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/novel-coronavirus-sarscov2-images and there were a few more links on this thread I believe".

It's like hitting one's head against a brick wall. You clearly haven't read any virus dissident literature and if you have read anything I and others have said here skeptical of the corona virus, citing Cowan, Kaufmann, Lanka and others (I would add Rosemary Frei, also Perth Group literature on HIV, which has its own implications to virology as a whole), you haven't even bothered to read what they write or speak about. You certainly don't understand it, even superficially and in outline. You also don't understand anything us corona virus skeptics are saying right here on the forum re virus isolation, purified virus (myself, Larkin, Viberaider, Bailey). Obviously NIAID is going to say they have the virus, relying as they know they can on the public not knowing anything, doctors not knowing anything, and everybody else being in their pocket, or part of the Old Boys' Gangster Medical Mafia Network and/or indoctrinated into their virus mania worldview. They know they can get away with anything, they always have. What else are they going to say? Would they say: 'Oh the virus dissidents may be right, we don't have a virus, we made a mistake, you lost your job, couldn't travel, we terrified you for no reason, turned the cities of the world into ghost towns over a phantom that doesn't exist, had you wearing a demon cloth protector for no reason, couldn't go to a family funeral, canceled a wedding ha ha sorry, please forgive us, let's move on, and don't forget to trust us when we claim another virus devastating the world.' Uh I don't think so. It's basic psychology, it's cognitive dissonance. Their job is practically defined by selling virus mania, and the selling of pharma drugs and vaccines in the wake of virus and germ mania. So that's what they do.

I have written elsewhere on this thread that we all have ENDOGENOUS (synthesized within our own cells) virus-like particles in our bodies, as have others here, extra-cellular vesicles such as exosomes and endosomes, there are also mobile genetic elements (MGEs), such as transposons, retroelements inclusive of retrotransposons and endogenous retroviruses. The science here is relatively new. It has huge ramifications to everything from evolutionary biology to ontogeny, illness and health, microevolution, phenotypic plasticity, adaptivity, virology and more. Such ENDOGENOUS bioparticles are indistinguishable in terms of morphology, size, DNA and RNA nucleotides, including number of sequences, proteins, loci within the cells, their dynamical activity and other traits, from putative EXOGENOUS AND SO-CALLED PATHOGENIC viruses. Inclusive of positive and negative sense DNA and RNA, single strand, double strand. SARS-CoV-2 for example is classified as a single strand negative sense RNA virus. All this stuff about ENDOGENOUS extra-cellular vesicles and MGEs were not remotely known about not only in the early days of virology, even well after WW2, not even when Crick, Watson, Wilkins, made the breakthrough on the DNA helix structure in the fifties, and the quaternary code here. It really begins in the 1960s and 70s, and even then our knowledge here was rudimentary, coarse. I realize that what I write here - and I have alluded to the same thing in a different way on this very lengthy thread topic now - is not going to be understood or appreciated by knee-jerk hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-in-virology skeptics who do not get to grips with basic cellular biology, genetics, virology, and the history of genetics, cellular biology and virology, along with the history of modern medicine and its fair share of disasters, blunders and fraud, its iatrogenic murder and maiming, but that's how it goes. And unless you do so, why do you think you know what you are talking about?

The Gangster Medical Mafia, whose jobs and reputations are wedded to virus mania and are on a huge power kick here, say they have a picture! I have seen it myself! So there! This is just naive and it also reflects on know-nothingness. If they have a virus, why is their testing all over the place? People are positive then negative, routinely on the same day. Elon Musk goes for a test, he is positive twice, negative twice, same rapid test, same machine, same nurse. He says this and that this testing is bogus (all in a Tweet). No kidding. I could have told him. Plenty of stories like this on social media. Musk is just famous, so it got some attention. Different tests give different results and the same tests, as Musk discovered, give different results. That's consistent with there being no virus, not there being one. It's what those of us who say there is no virus would predict. They are detecting endogenous enzymes and/or nucleotides (depending on the assay), not any exogenous viral proteins or RNA (or its DNA complement, as with PCR testing, technically RT-PCR), enzymes in antibodies (having nothing to do with SPECIFIC SARS-CoV-2 antibodies which do not exist because the virus does not exist, lying to the contrary, and I haven't even gotten onto the problem of antibody polyspecificity), lying to the contrary. If they have a virus that is exogenous and pathogenic, then their test results should be consistent. They are not. And for the reasons I state in this paragraph, they don't have a virus sigh. See the same thing with HIV testing. And for the same reason - there is no HIV. What is it about Kary Mullis and his commentary on PCR testing for viruses (rather their nucleotide sequences per se) that I wrote about yesterday that you didn't get? You know better than Mullis? You didn't read it? You didn't understand it? You don't think it matters? I notice the true believers here don't even seem to care, they didn't read my post here re Mullis and PCR or they greet it with a shrug, yeah yawn so what? No big deal yawn. I said and predicted as much in that very post of mine. It's religious, this virus mania, there is no science here.

This is tip of the iceberg stuff, but I realize it makes no difference to the true believers who can't and won't get to grips with medical dissident literature on viruses, or even watch the videos, listen to the podcasts. I don't write for such people, because it's a waste of time. I write for those who I hope are reading this thread, and who are more open minded here, and actually read and DIGEST what us virus dissidents are saying. And look into it for themselves, instead of not wanting to know and running off to Big Mafia Medicine for the soothing lies.

Here is a challenge: read the AIDS dissident literature, I have already put up a link to the biggest resource which would keep anybody so interested busy for years even (virusmyth.org), if the true virus believers are not going to read it, watch the doccies etc. why should we take you seriously when you dismiss in the same way corona virus dissent? Clearly you lot for the most part just don't want to know. I am repeating myself because none of you true believers in da virus get to grips with anything us skeptics are saying. If I had no idea what AIDS dissidents were saying, but somebody told me such a thing existed and there were med scientists from all backgrounds (virology, immunology, genetics, molecular biology, biophysics, Ivy League included), from around the world, including one of the fathers of retrovirology and Nobel Laureate scientists, who held such a position; and a fair number of gay men who were at ground zero in NY and San Fran back in the eighties, I would be more than a little curious. What do they say causes GRID (as AIDS was originally called, gay related immune deficiency), African AIDS, what do they say about HIV? I would make the time to investigate. That's what I did near 20 years ago. So here to the true believers: what are AIDS dissidents saying about gay AIDS in toto (that is the multiple causes), and how come the orthodoxy do not acknowledge any of this? Wow I wonder why.... I'm just talking about gay AIDS here, I have not even got onto the HIV isolation issue, testing, African AIDS, ARVs. And if you don't want to know even about gay AIDS, never mind the HIV isolation issue, then why would you want to know about the SARS-CoV-2 isolation issue? Well you don't. So if you can't answer the gay AIDS thing (and it's not so easy or simple, even if you are open minded here and start going through the dissident literature, and I'm talking - what AIDS dissidents are saying in their own words. It takes some time, not just a day or two), you are not going to get to grips with the keystone nitty-gritty science that is HIV isolation and ipso facto any other kind of virus isolation claim, the latest corona virus included. From a dissident perspective I mean.

Going by the true believer responses here, knee-jerk and dismissive, one would have no idea about the first thing relating to corona virus dissent, and what the likes of Cowan, Frei, Kaufmann, Crowe, Lanka, Kohnlein (whose book 'Virus Mania' has now been updated to include COVID-19, co-authored with Engelbrecht) are actually saying, not even vaguely. And again one would not know anything whatsoever about HIV/AIDS dissent, nothing, going by the true believers here, the huge polio scandal and more. You all don't want to know. People are indoctrinated by germ mania from infancy really, in the same way people in the Middle Ages and even more so if anything in the Renaissance period, were indoctrinated in the belief in the threat of diabolical witchcraft, to their religion and their very lives. Burn the witches! However, in terms of killing efficiency and power and reach (it's the whole earth now) and speed at spreading terror (the Holy Inquisition never had the Internet, social media and mass media, TV news, radio) and fear of phantoms, the Holy Inquisition and the witch finders of old ain't got nothing on WHO, NIH, CDC, NIAID, British NHS, med journals and medical associations the world over, the fawning media etc. Move over Matthew Hopkins Witchfinder General, you ain't got nothing on Anthony Fauci, who let us not forget, was a senior figure in the AIDS Inquistion at NIAID before he moved onto COVID-19 terror. Those witch hunters of old, they are amateur hour and inefficient killers, compared to the brutal efficiency of Big Pharma Big Mafia Germ Mania Medicine that now rules over every aspect of our lives and jobs. And is destroying the world, our economies and our everyday contacts, routines and relationships. It's quite something to behold.
Striped Cat, I think you've got it figured out.

Since you knew about the AIDS dissidents 20 years ago, you probably have been anticipating this plandemic.

If Kary Mullis were alive today, he'd be trash talking Fauci at the top of his lungs! How convenient for Fauci that Mullis died just months before Event 201 was put into action.

I too am at a loss to understand how blind most everyone else is to seeing what's happening right before their eyes.

It's like a spell has been cast by an evil magician.
 
Alex,

The explanation regarding isolation of the virus is discussed here:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/IsolationVersusPurification.php

David


OK, please bear with me, it will look lengthy, as I will quote from https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/IsolationVersusPurification.php

"I have been saying since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic panic that the virus has not been purified, and therefore probably does not exist. But people are continually pointing me to papers that claim isolation of the virus. "

Note "probably" in the above. Nothing wrong here, a healthy doubt. But this is a warning to those on this forum who seem to take whatever Cowe was saying as some sort of gospel.

"But with viruses, virologists have completely debased the word “isolation” while rarely using the word “purification”.

This is splitting hairs, as at the end of this piece he describes the level of purity he wants and which, imho, is on the level of the Randi challenge. Well, good luck, if you know what I mean - it is not practically achievable. For example, drying solid particles from any solution will leave some residue on their surface. You can dilute and repeat, but that can easily go into an infinite progression of progressively smaller fraction left on the surface - never zero. The problem is that the more steps you will do, the more you run the risk of introducing other contaminants (remember the PCR issues?)

He then appears (the way he fraimed it there "Experiments only worked on transgenic mice, not regular mice.") to have an issue with transgenic vs. regular mice. I don't know what was transgenic, but I suspect something to do with human genome. The probable reason - viruses (please allow me this hypothesis for a moment) are quite specie-specific, they would not infect normal mice (they are not humans).

"Treated transgenic mice (but not regular mice) lost weight and showed interstitial pneumonia. Maybe some of the cell culture material got into the lungs and caused an immune reaction, infection etc, in mice that could not fight it off like normal, robust, wild-type mice. By comparison, saline wouldn’t cause these problems. "

This is great. (1) He appears to believe in infection (let it sink for a moment), (2) He suggests that transgenic mice are not "robust" with respect to this "infection". Well, I will use their trick - prove it. Actually, they would not be able to, but that's a long story.
And, those researchers did do a control with saline - so, all good there for them.

In the interest of time (buy-buy lunch time) I will stop here (it's not much better further on). In my reference system, this piece, unfortunately, succeeded in significantly increasing the probability that these alternatives are on par with flat earth. I am still open to be convinced otherwise, see my previous post.

Let me just say that science (the one that is not a religion) operates on utilitarian/pragmatic basis. Suppose he and the others in that camp are right - what causes problems when cells etc are treated with "impure" solutions/suspensions of viruses/exosomes is something else in that suspension and not those "viral" particles. So what? Whatever that "other" is seems to correlate with the occurance of those particles and that's what matters. Then, the next step comes and one uses Occam's razor based on a bunch of experiments. If they can show the part outside a viral particle does the dirty job - awesome. And yes, it is possible that the current paradigm misses something, but I don't see yet how it changes the grand scheme of things. Actually, it's quite easy to do - centrifuge the viruses out and see if the problem still persist. I will leave it up to the proponents to it.
 
David Crowe does a pretty good job of making it understandable. Theinfectiousmyth.com.
I first heard David Crowe on The Higherside Chats. I've read some of his stuff, and listened to some of his podcasts. He died just this year. He had a cancer that killed him quickly, within months.

Like Kary Mullis, his voice would now be valuable against the lies being about the virus today.
 
I know that some viruses - such as Tobacco Mosaic Virus can be crystallised - but I guess that is somewhat exceptional.

Also I read somewhere that the gold standard in virus isolation was to show an electron micrograph showing viral particles but no other extraneous material.

There does seem to be a lot of suspicion that some loosening of scientific standards re viruses happened in the 1980's. This is not quite the same issue, but it arguably shows the same problem:

This is Kary Mullis writing about the strange fact that nobody offered a paper containing something that would be regarded as a proof that HIV causes AIDS. I know that there really are no proofs in science, only maths, but even so, it is strange that this has not been resolved.

http://www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html

drying solid particles from any solution will leave some residue on their surface

I suppose the only material that really matters is RNA/DNA. Given that the viruses are still protected by a protein coat, I'd have thought it would be possible to destroy such material chemically.

Note "probably" in the above. Nothing wrong here, a healthy doubt. But this is a warning to those on this forum who seem to take whatever Cowe was saying as some sort of gospel.

I took the word "probably" simply to refer to the fact that just because the virus was not proved to exist, didn't mean that it did not exist!
David
 
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I’m sorry, I seem to not fully understand how to post and respond well on this message board. Once I start a reply, I don’t know how to drop it or delete it. Thank you for being patient with me. I’m not really a computer savvy person. I agree about the 5G distraction. In my opinion, the 5G is necessary as part of the 4th industrial revolution, test and trace, zoom meetings, etc... Even as part of a grand Eugenics plot to reduce population, airborne poisons and radio waves would lack the specificity of an injection or tainted food supply
If you start a reply and want to discard it, the easiest method is to select it all (e.g. with Cntrl-A) and then delete it. Otherwise information you have typed is saved for you to finish later (it is a feature rather than a bug).

I agree, the idea of using radio waves like this seems a quite woolly idea. Interestingly, much higher up the 5G range of frequencies 60GHz is absorbed by oxygen molecules to produce a form of oxygen known as singlet oxygen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlet_oxygen

This is fairly long lasting, and might I suppose be a hazard, but the very fact that it is absorbed by oxygen, makes this narrow band of frequencies unsuitable for communications.

David


David
 
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If you start a reply and want to discard it, the easiest method is to select it all (e.g. with Cntrl-A) and then delete it. Otherwise information you have typed is saved for you to finish later (it is a feature rather than a bug).

I agree, the idea of using radio waves like this seems a quite woolly idea. Interestingly, much higher up the 5G range of frequencies 60GHz is absorbed by oxygen molecules to produce a form of oxygen known as singlet oxygen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlet_oxygen

This is fairly long lasting, and might I suppose be a hazard, but the very fact that it is absorbed by oxygen, makes this narrow band of frequencies unsuitable for communications.

David


David
Got it! Thank you!
 
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