Charlie Primero
Member
Thanks!
It looks like she is doing good work to clear out dishonesty and create transparency.
It looks like she is doing good work to clear out dishonesty and create transparency.
I love your show Alex (fairly new listener) and was a little surprised at you ending this convo so abruptly. I don't have an opinion on whether covid really is a new virus (though it seems clear whatever it is/isn't, it's not a 'pandemic', at least according to total mortality rates), but I didn't expect you to use the argument, (paraphrasing) "If this isn't true all these experts wouldn't dump all this money into work into it".
I wish Dr. Kary Mullis (inventor of PCR) was still alive for you to interview. His claims about HIV never being proven to cause AIDS are similarly startling, but the more you dig the less crazy they seem.
Anyway, thanks for doing your show. You inspired an article on why persistent error is possible in science.
https://isaacmorehouse.com/2020/12/01/diet-pills-and-persistent-error-in-health-and-science/
I have just read your link (to your own writing), and I think it gets to the heart of quite a few issues, so I have decided to quote it here, and add some comments:
Maybe one feature that puzzled you, is the concept of herd immunity. This is an odd concept because how exactly does someone become immune to a disease without actually getting it? I wonder if Rupert Sheldrake's concept of the morphic field may come into play here. I mean maybe once a few people have thrown off the disease in question, a memory starts to form in the relevant morphic field of the group of people. Morphic fields are a strange concept, but I tend to trust Rupert Sheldrake's intuition.Earlier this year, I was doing a deep dive into virology. Coincidentally, this was before Covid, in effort to solve my own health-related problems and mysteries. I had the same experience I’ve had when I went deeper into any field. A realization that nobody in the field knows what the hell is going on.
I don’t know what viruses are or how they work exactly (no one seems to really), but I came across enough published work to discover the current theories are insufficient to explain reality. There are many things observed and documented in the world that would not be possible if the dominant theories were true.
Precisely, and in science I sense there is a blend of deliberate fraud and hoping that something is true while ignoring the evidence pointing the other way.......It is a disconcerting notion. An entire body of science with widespread and accepted beliefs, billions in money and man-hours, and real-world implications could be operating partly or mostly in the dark? Yes. In fact, that is the norm in the history of science, not the exception.
People tend to respond to such claims with indignance. A common argument goes something like this:
If a theory were incorrect, and being incorrect had real-world implications, the theory would not persist. The fact that it does persist, and so many experts and laypeople alike believe it and billions are spent on the assumption it is true, must mean it is true.
Let’s see if we can disprove the above argument. All you need to disprove a claim like that is a single example of where it does not hold. Then it can no longer be used as a proof. And we have such an example.
Diet pills.
Magic pills that make you thin have been around for a long time. The theories they are based on are faulty, AND this faultiness has real world implications, i.e. people buy the pills and don’t get the results.
Yet millions are spent on them and they don’t vanish.
This clearly proves that a false theory, with real-world implications for being false, can persist. But why?
Because people benefit.
Yes, for exmple, it would seem that the whole theory that cholesterol is dangerous, saturated fat is bad, and that statins are good because they lower cholesterol - it is all junk science, but big pharma make enormous amounts of money out of statins!If an incorrect theory that leads to outcomes that disprove it can benefit people, they can keep on believing in it for a very long time. The people making and selling diet pills benefit in terms of money. The people buying them also benefit. They get to relieve some psychic discomfort about their weight and appearance by buying a pill and feeling like they’re at least doing something. They are buying hope. Trust in experts. Marginal relief from feeling like they’re not making progress, all the while avoiding the hard work.
So it persists.
The majority of theories in human health can be explained the same way. The more you dig, the more you find that almost all the dominant theories are incorrect. There are too many stubborn facts that contradict them. But they persist because it benefits the researchers to have a theory, it benefits policymakers to have a specific target to which to direct money, and it benefits the public to feel safer believing that the health troubles in the world are understood by experts and have cures. Most are not and do not.
Henry Bauer was interviewed on Skeptiko some time ago. I tend to think he is probably correct.This is different than placebo. Placebo is probably the most effective and efficient form of treatment in the history of health. Unlike these incorrect theories, placebo actually works. We just can’t explain the causal mechanisms that make it work. Incorrect theories and diet pills have theories we can explain, but they are incorrect and do not work. They are anti-placebos; beliefs that makes us feel better but make our outcomes no better or worse.
Science at large faces this problem far more than the diet pill industry. Many if not most theories that are treated as fact fail to produce outcomes they’d predict. They are demonstrably false. But because no clearly correct theory can be found, pretending to understand persists. Researchers get money for concrete claims of knowledge. Policymakers get to have definable problems and solutions to tout. The public gets the comfort of “knowing” how it works, complete with cute little animated posters and 3-step action plans.
Nobel Prize winning biochemist Dr. Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR process (incidentally this is the process used in Covid tests, despite its inventor’s insistence until his death that this was not valid use of the process), spent the last years of his life fighting against the claim that HIV causes AIDS. I was shocked when I came across him and the other researchers and a substantial community around the AIDS not caused by HIV claim.
I think this came from a book by Hope-Simpson. This also contained an account as to how serious efforts were made to transmit Spanish flu from those ill with the disease to fit volunteers. This proved essentially impossible - even when as a last resort swabs were taken from the ill and smeared inside the mouths of the volunteers!I do not claim to know whether this is true, but according to Mullis, he watched his own technology (PCR) be misapplied to diagnose disease, and he watched sloppy science get rushed out to meet a social and political demand for an answer to AIDS. The money, press, and public would rather have an answer than take the time to prove the answer correct. He said he watched nearly all his colleagues shoehorn their unrelated research into AIDS-related research, because billions were being doled out, as well as status and fame, all because the political class, media, and public wanted to believe there was a known cause and therefore clear research to be done to cure it.
Mullis maintained that no one had yet figured out what caused AIDS. There were some theories, some with fewer problems than the HIV theory, but none of them were free from contradictory evidence in the real world. He said, however, that public science cannot abide the very thing science is supposed to do best; questions. It needs answers. Incorrect theories that provide clear action steps, even if they lead to broken outcomes, exist and persist.
The history of science and medicine confirm this. Theories have been believed and acted upon even while making the problem worse. Over and over and over.
The odds are incredibly, ridiculously slim that that is not happening right now with almost every theory. The more public and political the health or science issue, the greater the odds that the theories funded are incorrect. The incentives are just stacked too far against the truth, which is usually something like, “We don’t really know what’s going on, but sometimes this helps some people.”
This is why science tends to progress in sudden, violent lurches, instead of the smooth linear path you might expect. Incorrect theories are prematurely turned into gospel by the scientists with the best political skills because the incentives to have an answer are so strong. This means falsifications and superior theories face an incredible battle and require a massive cataclysmic shift and/or changing generations to break through.
PS – One of the more interesting things I came across was the many cases through history of healthy sailors at sea for months (long after the incubation period claimed by viral theory) suddenly contracting the flu at the exact same time as people on land a thousand miles away. This has been observed and studied for several hundred years, and to date, no mainstream viral theory can explain it. Therefore, all current viral theories must be incorrect or incomplete. How unsatisfying.
Alex, please bring Jon Rappaport back on to discuss the virus.Brilliant!!! you said it so much better than I :)
great... I'm definitely willing to explore this further... maybe I'm wrong.Alex, please bring Jon Rappaport back on to discuss the virus.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/01/27/how-can-they-make-covid-vaccine-if-no-isolated-virus/
COVID: If they haven’t isolated the virus, how can they make a vaccine?
COVID: If they haven’t isolated the virus, how can they make a vaccine?
I am about 3/4 of the way through that discussion,and after an excessively waffly discussion at the start, I found it extremely interesting.Alex, please bring Jon Rappaport back on to discuss the virus.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/01/27/how-can-they-make-covid-vaccine-if-no-isolated-virus/
COVID: If they haven’t isolated the virus, how can they make a vaccine?
Well several pharmaceutical companies compete like hell with their various statin products, but none of them challenge what is almost certainly a false conjecture - that cholesterol in one form or another is the cause of cardiovascular disease.by the way my main resistance to cowan and rappaport is that their conclusions don't seem to make sense from a " business of science" perspective. I mean we're talking about hundreds of billions maybe trillions of dollars here... with many competing players... many competing corporations with phony-baloney muckety-mucks earning millions of dollars if they win and a lot less if they lose. this filters down to thousands of professional virologist who will get to buy that car by that new house go on vacation if they win... big beat the competition.
sure it's a mess... and depending on where they put the cheese they can get the mice to run anywhere.Well several pharmaceutical companies compete like hell with their various statin products, but none of them challenge what is almost certainly a false conjecture - that cholesterol in one form or another is the cause of cardiovascular disease.
This guy quotes a whole string of studies showing that people with more cholesterol/LDL in their blood, live longer than those with less!
http://vernerwheelock.com/179-cholesterol-and-all-cause-mortality/
The point is that none of the competing players really want to overturn the whole apple cart!
David
Alex, please bring Jon Rappaport back on to discuss the virus.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/01/27/how-can-they-make-covid-vaccine-if-no-isolated-virus/
COVID: If they haven’t isolated the virus, how can they make a vaccine?
Well I'd much rather that Kaufman were to answer that question, however I guess he would say that something poisoned those animals and that that stress caused them to generate exosomes that were mistaken for viruses. The fact that this happened to multiple animals was because these were the animals that came into contact with the toxin - whatever it was - so they all emitted the same exosomes. Remember that exosomes are an accepted biological phenomenon:so for example oh, this is one of the first things I would like jon rappoport to explain to us... I mean, I mean here's a case of where a virus killed a bison in a zoo and everyone was all worked up about it cuz the virus move from the sheep to the bison. so we don't immediately jump in and say oh this is all full of s*** because there are no such thing as viruses and they can't be transmitted and they can't cause illness and death... because in this case is just a bison. but the same virologist who isolated the virus and found the cause of the illness are using the same science here. it doesn't make sense to suggest that there's this body of known science that basically works ( basically being the operative word because I know there's a lot of clunkiness to it and I know the HIV AIDS and all the rest of it)
===
Doctor: Sheep give zoo’s bison fatal illness
By ROD STETZER |
Sep 27, 2013 Updated Oct 17, 2013
6
Editor`s Special! 1 year only $26
Irvine Park Zoo bison news conference
Dr. Wayne Griffin, left, and Dick Hebert, the director of the Chippewa Falls Parks and Recreation Department, hold a news conference Friday on last week's death of two bison at the Irvine Park Zoo.
ROD STETZER / The Herald
Save
By ROD STETZER |
Adisease dating to the late 1700s and carried by otherwise healthy sheep is responsible for the deaths of two bison at the Irvine Park Zoo, a veterinarian said Friday.
DNA of the disease, Malignant Catarral Fever or MCF, was found in a sample taken from a bull bison that died last Saturday, said Dr. Wayne Griffin of the Chippewa Valley Veterinary Clinic.
Griffin has been in practice for 33 years. "This is the first confirmed case of MCF I've seen," he said at the press conference at the park with Dick Hebert, director of the Chippewa Falls Parks and Recreation Department.
Hebert said a third bison that was thought to be sick is doing fine, and will continue to be watched. “We’re hoping that animal will be OK,” he said.
The disease cannot be transferred to humans, but animals with multi-chambered stomachs are vulnerable, include cattle, bison and whitetail deer.
The zoo's six sheep, that are otherwise healthy, will be shipped out of the zoo as soon as possible, Hebert said. Where the sheep will go had not been determined as of Friday morning, he added.
The sheep shared an area with the buffalo, separated by a fence. Griffin said it’s that fence were the sheep could have left nasal secretions or saliva that transmitted the disease to two of the parks’ nine bison.
Hebert said hard work put in by the zoo’s staff, Dr. Joel Mayberry and Dr. Griffin of the veterinary clinic was responsible for tracking down what killed a male and female bison Sept. 20 and 21.
“Today, there is no treatment or cure for MCF and no vaccine,” the USDA said in an article “Battling Bison’s Mysterious MCF Disease.” That article says MCF’s cause is a group of herpesvirus. The virus itself does not live long, but once transmitted to bison it can cause mouth ulcers, swollen lymph nodes, diarrhea and a high fever.
The Bison Producers of Alberta (Canada) said the disease is transmitted in Africa by wildebeest and by sheep in North America.
“All sheep should be presumed to be carriers of the OHV-2 virus. . . Generally lambs are born virus-free, but by five to six months, almost all of the lambs are carriers. This implies the lambs are infected through contact with the adult members of the flock,” the Bison Producers of Alberta wrote about Malignant Catarrhal Fever.
Interesting... thanks for sharing thisHere is an interesting paper that suggests there is a lot more to the virus story than what we are told:
https://www.jpands.org/vol25no3/merritt.pdf
First, of course it suggests that there are cheap drugs - used for years - that could help with the plandemic, but are being suppressed - indeed that they could have helped treat a lot of viral disease over many years.
Secondly, I find it interesting to say the least, that drugs that deal with bacteria or parasites are useful against viruses. I feel this may be evidence that the classical view as to what the nature of viruses is, may indeed be flawed.
David
An NHS doctor runs a fascinating blog that covers a lot of medical topics, and he is very much against the lockdown, so he lets people post comments that explore the 'fringe'. Indeed, some people have posted on Drs Cowan and Kaufman. It is certainly worth a browse - the medical profession contains a lot of dissenters:Interesting... thanks for sharing this
it is actually not a vaccine
so for example oh, this is one of the first things I would like jon rappoport to explain to us... I mean, I mean here's a case of where a virus killed a bison in a zoo and everyone was all worked up about it cuz the virus move from the sheep to the bison. so we don't immediately jump in and say oh this is all full of s*** because there are no such thing as viruses and they can't be transmitted and they can't cause illness and death... because in this case is just a bison. but the same virologist who isolated the virus and found the cause of the illness are using the same science here. it doesn't make sense to suggest that there's this body of known science that basically works ( basically being the operative word because I know there's a lot of clunkiness to it and I know the HIV AIDS and all the rest of it)
===
Doctor: Sheep give zoo’s bison fatal illness
By ROD STETZER |
Sep 27, 2013 Updated Oct 17, 2013
6
Editor`s Special! 1 year only $26
Irvine Park Zoo bison news conference
Dr. Wayne Griffin, left, and Dick Hebert, the director of the Chippewa Falls Parks and Recreation Department, hold a news conference Friday on last week's death of two bison at the Irvine Park Zoo.
ROD STETZER / The Herald
Save
By ROD STETZER |
Adisease dating to the late 1700s and carried by otherwise healthy sheep is responsible for the deaths of two bison at the Irvine Park Zoo, a veterinarian said Friday.
DNA of the disease, Malignant Catarral Fever or MCF, was found in a sample taken from a bull bison that died last Saturday, said Dr. Wayne Griffin of the Chippewa Valley Veterinary Clinic.
Griffin has been in practice for 33 years. "This is the first confirmed case of MCF I've seen," he said at the press conference at the park with Dick Hebert, director of the Chippewa Falls Parks and Recreation Department.
Hebert said a third bison that was thought to be sick is doing fine, and will continue to be watched. “We’re hoping that animal will be OK,” he said.
The disease cannot be transferred to humans, but animals with multi-chambered stomachs are vulnerable, include cattle, bison and whitetail deer.
The zoo's six sheep, that are otherwise healthy, will be shipped out of the zoo as soon as possible, Hebert said. Where the sheep will go had not been determined as of Friday morning, he added.
The sheep shared an area with the buffalo, separated by a fence. Griffin said it’s that fence were the sheep could have left nasal secretions or saliva that transmitted the disease to two of the parks’ nine bison.
Hebert said hard work put in by the zoo’s staff, Dr. Joel Mayberry and Dr. Griffin of the veterinary clinic was responsible for tracking down what killed a male and female bison Sept. 20 and 21.
“Today, there is no treatment or cure for MCF and no vaccine,” the USDA said in an article “Battling Bison’s Mysterious MCF Disease.” That article says MCF’s cause is a group of herpesvirus. The virus itself does not live long, but once transmitted to bison it can cause mouth ulcers, swollen lymph nodes, diarrhea and a high fever.
The Bison Producers of Alberta (Canada) said the disease is transmitted in Africa by wildebeest and by sheep in North America.
“All sheep should be presumed to be carriers of the OHV-2 virus. . . Generally lambs are born virus-free, but by five to six months, almost all of the lambs are carriers. This implies the lambs are infected through contact with the adult members of the flock,” the Bison Producers of Alberta wrote about Malignant Catarrhal Fever.
I would have dismissed the concept that polio (say) was caused by toxins.
I was going to quote something Cowan said in an interview he did on Valuetainment but it has been done for me as noted above. Unless the Spanish flu was not anything like the flu bugs we know today, the only possibility as far as i can see that people wouldn't contract the flu when breathing and rubbing bogeys on each other would be if the doctors doing the experiment back in 1917, didn't have a way of testing to see if the participants had antibodies or t-cell reactions from before. I'm not a doctor but i know that on numerous occassions i have caught flu and cold bugs off people when they get too close. Is very obvious. The same applies for covid. This is mumbo jumbo science though i would agree with what Cowan says about having a natural and high fat diet. Apart from other benefits, for most people, fats and oils are very good for the heart (inc butter, eggs, fresh cream, meat fats etc)A doctor called Hope-Simpson performed a remarkable series of experiments trying to study the transmission of Spanish Flu. He started with a number of victims of the disease, ill in hospital, and some healthy volunteers (I presume they were paid a lot). He used increasingly extreme efforts to try to transfer the disease from the sick to the well. Finally taking mucus and saliva samples from the sick individuals and smearing the stuff inside the noses and mouths of the healthy volunteers! None of them caught the disease!