Dr. Tom Zinser, Clinical Psychologist on Difference Between Darkness and Evil |451|

Alex

Administrator
#81
Could a series of traumas that share the same root cause (“particular issue”) generate a reflection in the current lifetime where the reflective “triggering” events experienced in this lifetime actually be generated (engineered) by the soul, for the self to deal with this lesson opportunity, to achieve release once and for all?
wow... interesting.
 

Alex

Administrator
#82
Maybe not quite in tune with Dr. Zinser 's way of expressing things, but it was my own realisation that the painful issues I was dealing with could not have any cause in the present lifetime, that led to an openness towards the possibility of past lives.

Not long after that, I went through stages of pulling deeply-embedded feelings to the surface. I'd tried unsuccessfully for a number of years to push them away, to bury them. But eventually I decided to do the opposite, I allowed them to flow forth. It was painful, I wept, for weeks, it tapered off but didn't completely stop until a number of years later. With that, I also found myself engaging with a genuine acceptance of some sort of God, as well as identification of a past life persona.

It was that process of emotional release and healing which was so real, it was not an illusion, that gave me the certainty that past lives exist.
Wow. Thanks for sharing this. I think it's hard to share this kind of stuff because you know that no one else can experience the realness.
 
#83
Wow. Thanks for sharing this. I think it's hard to share this kind of stuff because you know that no one else can experience the realness.
True. Other people often want to see/hear solid evidence regarding past lives. But maybe only a few cases are really shareable, the rest are mostly meaningful only to the individual person experiencing it.
 
#84
In this section of Soul-Centered Healing... in the Past Life Personalities and Present Life Repercussions section Dr. Zinser writes -

"Quite frequently, you will also see past-lfe and present-life ego-states form groups together because they share a particular issue, conflict, or experience that bridges lifetimes."

and my thoughts led to this speculation -

Could a series of traumas that share the same root cause (“particular issue”) generate a reflection in the current lifetime where the reflective “triggering” events experienced in this lifetime actually be generated (engineered) by the soul, for the self to deal with this lesson opportunity, to achieve release once and for all? Is this a truer meaning of the term, "karma," as opposed to the seemingly popular one related to a "payback" concept?

I ask this because if so, this might help explain what many folks use as reason to conclude there is no God or that if there be, God is unjust… that if they open to the possibility that lesson opportunities can span multiple lifetimes, they kill two birds with one stone – one bird is “there’s no life after death much less the possibility of prior lives” and two – “that the dynamic we live in is unjust (and if they like, they can say God isn’t unjust).”
Very early in my work with Gerod, he said that a soul—with guidance and high-level teachers— will create a blueprint for the life to be lived. Once incarnate, though, he said that the self, as the soul's focus of consciousness in this reality, is absolutely free to make different choices and veer from the blueprint. This is an important point. The soul's absolute free choice to all forms of the soul's agency. From a soul point of view, all choices feed the soul's own growth in consciousness. Also, the blueprint had limitations in terms of prediction and seemed to incorporate probability and alternatives in the life's path.

I bring up the blueprint concept here, because Gerod said that in the process of creating the blueprint, the soul will address unresolved issues, themes, challenges that it needs to address in its own evolving consciousness. Gerod also said that past-life ego-states, still unresolved, may potentially become active in the coming lifetime.

In my clinical practice, I did not address the 'blueprint' directly with a client's higher self. Instead, in the healing process, a client's higher self would be identifying ego-states involved in a problem, some of which turned out to be past-life. It was the trail of ego-states, past-life and present, with its shared issue, that supported the idea of the blueprint.
 
#85
Thanks for the reply. One thing I am noticing, from the interview, from reading Soul-Centered Healing from your website, and the responses you have provided here is that you seem to have your own well developed sense of self-limitation as to how far you have chosen to go with a client. It seems you, with regards to your treatment approach, remain within the domain of healing and purposely avoid as best as one might be able to do, coloring the client's journey process with what might be your own "stuff" (I can't find the right word)... but 'stuff' that could be considered your own conclusions as to what may be "right" or "wrong," moral or not, ethical or not as well as what you might think would be the best way to "think" about things for the client if you were the client. I think this is hugely significant and is so glaringly violated by so many out there who strive to be healers, but go beyond.

To say it straight forward - It strikes me that this discipline, so to speak, is so critically important for the client.

That the client is in the position of doing their own work. It seems like your role is intentionally limited to playing a part... sort of as (a.) a facilitator where the other facilitators are b.) the higher self, c.) the quite clean (uncolored) doorway your method resolves to open to their subconscious, d.) as well as the "trouble makers" immersed in degrees of darkness (which the client is seeking relief - which is healing... where in cases of sub-personalities, integration) in contrast e.) with the trouble makers who have developed intent to invade, harm and/or damage a soul (with the goal they leave the client). And all of these seem is some ways (even category e.), as all playing their parts with the goal in achieving what I call "an increase in the integrity of a soul" - that the self experiences a stronger foothold in "the Light" (as you refer to it) which accomplishes increased soul integrity.
 
#86
Tomz,

I'm glad you are still here! One very simple question I'd like to ask, is whether you would identify the conscience with a specific entity? I would say that conscience is the nearest thing I can identify to an independent voice in my head.

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#87
Thanks for the reply. One thing I am noticing, from the interview, from reading Soul-Centered Healing from your website, and the responses you have provided here is that you seem to have your own well developed sense of self-limitation as to how far you have chosen to go with a client. It seems you, with regards to your treatment approach, remain within the domain of healing and purposely avoid as best as one might be able to do, coloring the client's journey process with what might be your own "stuff" (I can't find the right word)... but 'stuff' that could be considered your own conclusions as to what may be "right" or "wrong," moral or not, ethical or not as well as what you might think would be the best way to "think" about things for the client if you were the client. I think this is hugely significant and is so glaringly violated by so many out there who strive to be healers, but go beyond.

To say it straight forward - It strikes me that this discipline, so to speak, is so critically important for the client.

That the client is in the position of doing their own work. It seems like your role is intentionally limited to playing a part... sort of as (a.) a facilitator where the other facilitators are b.) the higher self, c.) the quite clean (uncolored) doorway your method resolves to open to their subconscious, d.) as well as the "trouble makers" immersed in degrees of darkness (which the client is seeking relief - which is healing... where in cases of sub-personalities, integration) in contrast e.) with the trouble makers who have developed intent to invade, harm and/or damage a soul (with the goal they leave the client). And all of these seem is some ways (even category e.), as all playing their parts with the goal in achieving what I call "an increase in the integrity of a soul" - that the self experiences a stronger foothold in "the Light" (as you refer to it) which accomplishes increased soul integrity.
hey chester... this is a fantastic point... really important. and let's take tom out of the equation for a minute. I mean, he seems like a great guy, a very solid person, spiritually developed person... but for a minute take all that out of the equation so that we can appreciate what clinical psychology ( at its best) brings to illuminating these issues. it seems to me like there's so much more that could be done if we could break free from the ridiculous biological robot in a meaningless universe meme they've constricted us to.
 
#88
hey chester... this is a fantastic point... really important. and let's take tom out of the equation for a minute. I mean, he seems like a great guy, a very solid person, spiritually developed person... but for a minute take all that out of the equation so that we can appreciate what clinical psychology ( at its best) brings to illuminating these issues. it seems to me like there's so much more that could be done if we could break free from the ridiculous biological robot in a meaningless universe meme they've constricted us to.
100% agree that THAT is the #1 issue.

I am of the opinion that there are elements that hold power over others that know this and yet apply the available pressures to those who are "gatekeepers" of the ridiculous, narrow paradigm... that within the ranks of these gatekeepers are those who actually know better (and have sold out) and those who do not allow their consciousness to explore, open mindedly, outside of their (comfortable) box. This dynamic is entrenched in the systems within which we are held hostage and which we find it so difficult to break apart from.

One internal voice says, as long as so, so many are satisfied well enough with their perceived material reality comfort and psychological comfort zones, what are the odds we, any time soon, experience a true, global paradigm shift? But another voice has emerged that says, just as the individuated soul has a route that can lead to profound change, perhaps the collective soul can initiate such through a theoretical "collective higher self?"

So many of your Skeptikos have so clearly revealed this is our #1 challenge and I have reached the point where I believe the way I (and each of us) can do my (our) part in change implementation is to honor the emergent, "wider" paradigmatic view where consciousness is fundamental. Of course, the impact for clinical psychology would be profound... yet clinical psychology isn't the only route to achieving psychological health... maybe it isn't so important that clinical psychology expand to this greater paradigm, but everything that shifting to this world view could impact. Imagine... dogmatic religion could vanish and science could upgrade (indeed, be unleashed!), for example.

And don't more and more of us say this? Live this? Approach life, healing ourselves, assisting others in their healing process with this understanding of this "new" (and ancient) world view?

I put my money on Light/the soul, the higher self and our opportunity here in the lightness/darkness zone to ultimately prevail.
 
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#89
Dr. Tom Zinser, Clinical Psychologist on Difference Between Darkness and Evil |451|
by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 10 | Uncategorized
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Tom Zinser’s clinical psychology practice took a turn when he discovered the difference between darkness and evil.
photo by: Skeptiko
[Movie clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:23]
Nobody plays a deal-making devil better than Al Pacino and no one plays an unsuspecting dupe better than Keanu Reeves. It’s from the movie, The Devil’s Advocate and it fits perfectly with today’s controversial and just incredibly amazing and for me, paradigm changing interview with Dr. Tom Zinser.
Tom Zinser: As souls we have the choice, and evil does not run our life, evil does not have power over us. So as souls we do have that power to deal with evil, to stop it, to refuse it. And it’s one of the reasons I said that distinction between darkness and evil is so important.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:09] So our natural state is to have likes and dislikes that inadvertently, not our fault, but it happens, we block that light in one way or another, and sometimes we connect with those blockages more than we connect with the light and it all becomes a confused state. What I hear you saying then is that we can begin talking about evil, darkness as just blockages of the light. That of course, you always have the power to remove those. It makes them a lot less scary.
Tom Zinser: [00:01:43] And we do need that. We’ve grown up in our Western culture to be frightened of darkness and evil, to think of it as so powerful, to stay away from that topic for fear that it’s going to get us. People need to know it doesn’t have that power.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:00] I hope this came through in the interview, is this idea of the contract, because that is not only a method of deception that seems to be in play, but it’s been enshrined in our culture through books, movies, as being, don’t make that contract with the devil, you could never break it. And what Gerod says, and you prove in your work is that, no, there’s no such contract, it’s null and void, it’s unenforceable. All we have to do is say, No, I choose to go to the light,” and it’s all over.
Tom Zinser: [00:02:33] That’s right. Yes.


This topic has brought us to a cross road of many choices and the influences that make us as human beings. (Ego, Social, Religious...) One of those many choices can fling us through the black hole of other places that force us to make other choices we didn't count on. i.e. Darkness, Evil. (Drugs comes to mind.) It's a fun and exciting experience that leads down one DARK...
I'm an ex-religious person that could not tolerate the control they have over me. Free thought and will is NOT part of there program. Now comes my Eureka moment and I knew it! (Childish but hey.) I (WE) DO NOT DIE!
The NDE and Reincarnation and Mediumship experiences gives us strength we really never had before to handle The Darkness and Evil over us on so many levels
What 'I am' saying: We give over our freedom of...out of fear and give in to the conformity of those over us. Government, Church/Society. Stay within the walls and everything will be just fine. Outside of those walls and we have problems.
We live in fear. Till will start to realize, we are no longer going to live/think in fear inside those walls!
NDE's, Reincarnation, Mediumship is as real as it get's and it's NO FREAKING DEVIL STUFF!
We just keep living in fear. Thanks folks and Alex!
 
#90
I’m agreeing with you ;;/?

It’s the opinion that we all just are part of one consciousness that doesn’t logically or emotionally ring true to me.
How do you explain all the people that have experienced this and it was the most happy they had ever been? It's cross-cultural.
 
L

lonevoice

#91
Alex, I wasn't sure where to put this; remember your interview and "experiment" with Marilynn Hughes,* quite relevant to the subject of evil? She has been creating a public presence lately:

*75. Marilynn Hughes, Out of Body Travel Experiment
by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 2 | Parapsychology

I do not have the time or bandwidth to listen to this, but I wanted to let you kow incase you had not seen it. I did see she is offering a "map". But there is till a strong Christian context.
 

Alex

Administrator
#92
Alex, I wasn't sure where to put this; remember your interview and "experiment" with Marilynn Hughes,* quite relevant to the subject of evil? She has been creating a public presence lately:

*75. Marilynn Hughes, Out of Body Travel Experiment
by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 2 | Parapsychology

I do not have the time or bandwidth to listen to this, but I wanted to let you kow incase you had not seen it. I did see she is offering a "map". But there is till a strong Christian context.
thx much. Marilynn has always been a curious mystery to me ever since I talked to her.
 
#93
I’ve never understood “we are all one” as intergration.
Seems unfair that certain souls live in bliss and others hell, if it’s not for individual soul growth.
Reflecting on your post, Smash... I never much liked the "we all return to oneness belief." I am completely attracted to the idea a soul can achieve a state of what could be called, "full gnosis," but I do not see that requiring relinquishment of one's individuality.

Tom mentioned that Gerod says all souls have free choice. That implies to me a soul can choose to experience darkness and, logically, there's an increased risk in becoming oriented to darkness, perhaps even choosing to "do evil" with intent to harm and even destroy other souls (though I believe Tom said that Gerod said, soul destruction cannot occur, regardless). I never heard Tom say (or state that Gerod said) all souls eventually find their way back to the Light.

And thus, I never heard Tom say a soul is destined to return to and remain in the Light. If that were the case, "free choice" would not be truly free. Your "freedom of choice" would only be an illusion. Would a true, loving Creator trick all souls? Not mine.
 
#94
One part of the interview I was concerned I might be confused - it was this part, which I will present as the transcript and then present with my guesses as to precisely what Tom was referring to -

At 31:45 of the YouTube video -

So I began meeting with Katherine once a week. During the week with clients I kept a list of questions on my legal pad, so I would write down questions about where we got stuck with the client, what was happening. I also wrote down metaphysical questions on that legal pad. And then at the end of the week, I would meet with Gerod with my questions there, go over all of those. I would go home and during the week I would transcribe that session and take that information back to the sessions with my clients, using that information with each of those individual clients. Then I would take that communication, that hypnotherapy work and see if I could engage, see if I could get a communication. And it happened over and over.

So I began meeting with Katherine once a week. During the week with clients I kept a list of questions on my legal pad, so I would write down questions about where we got stuck with the client, what was happening. I also wrote down metaphysical questions on that legal pad. And then at the end of the week, I would meet with Gerod with my questions there, go over all of those. I would go home and during the week I would transcribe that session (Chester: that session with Gerod??) and take that information back to the sessions with my clients, using that information with each of those individual clients. Then I would take that communication, that hypnotherapy work and see if I could engage (Chester: engage the spirit and/or the past life and/or the sub-personality??), see if I could get a communication (Chester: with the spirit and/or the past life and/or the sub-personality??). And it happened over and over.

Did I correctly interpret, Tom?

Here's the video for reference.
 
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#95
One part of the interview I was concerned I might be confused - it was this part, which I will present as the transcript and then present with my guesses as to precisely what Tom was referring to -

At 31:45 of the YouTube video -

So I began meeting with Katherine once a week. During the week with clients I kept a list of questions on my legal pad, so I would write down questions about where we got stuck with the client, what was happening. I also wrote down metaphysical questions on that legal pad. And then at the end of the week, I would meet with Gerod with my questions there, go over all of those. I would go home and during the week I would transcribe that session and take that information back to the sessions with my clients, using that information with each of those individual clients. Then I would take that communication, that hypnotherapy work and see if I could engage, see if I could get a communication. And it happened over and over.

So I began meeting with Katherine once a week. During the week with clients I kept a list of questions on my legal pad, so I would write down questions about where we got stuck with the client, what was happening. I also wrote down metaphysical questions on that legal pad. And then at the end of the week, I would meet with Gerod with my questions there, go over all of those. I would go home and during the week I would transcribe that session (Chester: that session with Gerod??) and take that information back to the sessions with my clients, using that information with each of those individual clients. Then I would take that communication, that hypnotherapy work and see if I could engage (Chester: engage the spirit and/or the past life and/or the sub-personality??), see if I could get a communication (Chester: with the spirit and/or the past life and/or the sub-personality??). And it happened over and over.

Did I correctly interpret, Tom?

Here's the video for reference.
Hello Chester, I wanted to clarify about the procedure I used in meeting with Gerod and clients. During a session with a client, I had a separate list from my session notes on which I would jot down a question as it arose. It might be a specific question about what was happening right then, or it might be a metaphysical question prompted by what was happening. I did this through each of the client sessions during the week. The clients knew I might talk to Gerod about their session but they didn't always know when I would ask about them specifically. I would tyhen meet with Gerod, almost always on the weekend, and go through my list. (Katharine began channeling verbally about 4 months after we had our first session.) These Gerod sessions were all recorded and then transcribed. I took the full transcript and then divided it into separate excerpts about each client that Gerod had talked about. I never gave a client this excerpt or discussed what information Gerod had given me, until after the session or sessions in which that information appeared to be finished or resolved. At that point, I also gave them the printed excerpt so they knew exactly what Gerod had said and, of course, knew what happened in that next session.

When I next met with a client, I would test out Gerod's information by formulating questions—"yes, no, I don't know"— by which to ask higher self to look inside and see if it could identify or not what I was asking. So often, Gerod identified an ego-state, a spirit, a device or energy, or he would describe a situation. Sometimes, when the higher self was blocked, I would ask directly for the ego-state or spirit that Gerod had given me. So, I would engage the ego-state or spirit then and work with them directly. Very often, what followed then in the session would confirm the starting point Gerod had given me as we worked through the session. For example, Gerod might give me name that would turn out to be a past-life ego-state with a complex story about what had happened to it that made complete sense in the context of the client's past and ongoing treatment. Or he might give a name and it would turn out to be a spirit, and I would then engage that spirit directly.

I established this method so I could use Gerod's information, which I found so helpful, while avoiding as much as possible any suggestion or hint to the client of what was coming once the client went into trance. It was important to me to have some kind of independent validation without the conscious self being involved. I considered this to be a scientific method and an ethical way of dealing with invisible realities in working with another person.

I hope this answers the question. Again, it was more than I intended. From my point of view, it is an extremely important question. We need to develop reliable and agreed-upon ways of knowing about these other dimensions and levels of reality. This is also where I see the place of mediums and channels who might help us see in a new way. That's another issue.
 
L

lonevoice

#96
Tomz, I have been dropping everything to read your book. One question that has arisen: did you experience transference in your sessions? Counter transference? Trauma and / or retraumatization?

Finally, what is your view of EMDR?

Deep thanks in advance.
 
#97
Tomz, I have been dropping everything to read your book. One question that has arisen: did you experience transference in your sessions? Counter transference? Trauma and / or retraumatization?

Finally, what is your view of EMDR?

Deep thanks in advance.
I do not feel that I've been traumatized. I think working with Gerod from a soul point of view also gave me a perspective and depth of understanding about my own soul journey.

I don't know a lot about EMDR except the basics. From what I've read, it seems that some who practice EMDR wind up going into the deeper and more complex areas, especially ego-states.
 
L

lonevoice

#98
Thank you Tom. From what I have read therapists who have been abused themselves can become retraumatized while working with abuse victims. I got to thinking about therapists like you working with clients with spirit attachments and the "blowback" that could entail for some of them.

Gerod is a priceless pearl. Do you think there are others like him willing to help us help others?
 

Alex

Administrator
#99
Hello Chester, I wanted to clarify about the procedure I used in meeting with Gerod and clients. During a session with a client, I had a separate list from my session notes on which I would jot down a question as it arose. It might be a specific question about what was happening right then, or it might be a metaphysical question prompted by what was happening. I did this through each of the client sessions during the week. The clients knew I might talk to Gerod about their session but they didn't always know when I would ask about them specifically. I would tyhen meet with Gerod, almost always on the weekend, and go through my list. (Katharine began channeling verbally about 4 months after we had our first session.) These Gerod sessions were all recorded and then transcribed. I took the full transcript and then divided it into separate excerpts about each client that Gerod had talked about. I never gave a client this excerpt or discussed what information Gerod had given me, until after the session or sessions in which that information appeared to be finished or resolved. At that point, I also gave them the printed excerpt so they knew exactly what Gerod had said and, of course, knew what happened in that next session.

When I next met with a client, I would test out Gerod's information by formulating questions—"yes, no, I don't know"— by which to ask higher self to look inside and see if it could identify or not what I was asking. So often, Gerod identified an ego-state, a spirit, a device or energy, or he would describe a situation. Sometimes, when the higher self was blocked, I would ask directly for the ego-state or spirit that Gerod had given me. So, I would engage the ego-state or spirit then and work with them directly. Very often, what followed then in the session would confirm the starting point Gerod had given me as we worked through the session. For example, Gerod might give me name that would turn out to be a past-life ego-state with a complex story about what had happened to it that made complete sense in the context of the client's past and ongoing treatment. Or he might give a name and it would turn out to be a spirit, and I would then engage that spirit directly.

I established this method so I could use Gerod's information, which I found so helpful, while avoiding as much as possible any suggestion or hint to the client of what was coming once the client went into trance. It was important to me to have some kind of independent validation without the conscious self being involved. I considered this to be a scientific method and an ethical way of dealing with invisible realities in working with another person.

I hope this answers the question. Again, it was more than I intended. From my point of view, it is an extremely important question. We need to develop reliable and agreed-upon ways of knowing about these other dimensions and levels of reality. This is also where I see the place of mediums and channels who might help us see in a new way. That's another issue.
thank you so much for this Tom. and a big thanks to Chester for asking this question.

it's funny because I was going to send you an e-mail about this very topic. perhaps we can make this one of the focal points of our second interview... that is, protocols, ethics, and suggestions for how to move forward in a pre-scientific but it's close to scientific way as possible... all along keeping in mind that we are probably wrong :)
 
thank you so much for this Tom. and a big thanks to Chester for asking this question.

it's funny because I was going to send you an e-mail about this very topic. perhaps we can make this one of the focal points of our second interview... that is, protocols, ethics, and suggestions for how to move forward in a pre-scientific but it's close to scientific way as possible... all along keeping in mind that we are probably wrong :)

Thank you Tom. From what I have read therapists who have been abused themselves can become retraumatized while working with abuse victims. I got to thinking about therapists like you working with clients with spirit attachments and the "blowback" that could entail for some of them.

Gerod is a priceless pearl. Do you think there are others like him willing to help us help others?
I believe that there are other guides, (and probably Gerod under another name) who are helping all the time in all kinds of ways. I do believe my meeting with Katharine and working with Gerod was agreed upon before Katharine and I incarnated. I would believe this also about others. Agreements between guides and humans, some made before the soul's incarnation, some ongoing in the present life are always going on. These agreements, however, seem tailored very specifically for the individual, his or her earthly situation, the guide(s) involved, and the purposes involved.

I also believe the use of mediums (psychics, channelers, et. al.) is an untapped source both to assist in healing and to participate in exploration and mapping of these unseen realities. These activities, in my opinion, would need to be set up or structured in a way that results could be validated. One can get lost or confused pretty quickly in these realities. Besides a methodology for the use of mediums, a big part of the problem is also a lack of funding for this kind of research. As I said in the interview, governments may not want to open these areas too widely unless it has a military application (remote viewing), and then it's kept secret.

Yes, Alex, it is a whole other challenge.
 
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