Gnosticism - The world is a vampire, sent to drain? Secret destroyers hold you up to the flames?

Discussion in 'Extended Consciousness & Spirituality' started by Sciborg_S_Patel, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. JKMac's thread on the arguable futility of not recalling past lives got me thinking about one of my favorite subjects - Gnosticsm. This ties back to Manjit's Speculation About Reality thread as well.

    Basically AFAICTell in Gnosticism the universe is a prison and/or a school, and we are supposed to escape it, or transcend it, or possibly just learn from our limited lives within its confines.

    Let's assume acceptance of the varied realities/beings/etc discussed in the varied podcasts. Seems like if you took NDEs, reincarnation, Vallee's UFO hypothesis, cosmology from Theosophy/Dante's Comedy/Hinduism/Shamanism/etc, and even some of the info from mediums you could (easily?) piece together a puzzle whose final image was very much akin to the Gnostic model.

    Now whether its Positive Gnosticism* or Negative Gnosticism is an open question. Does this reality seem more like a prison or a school to you?

    *"The gnostic error is to hate the material world; ... The material world is the part of heaven we can touch."
    - Grant Morrison, The Invisibles


    p.s. Thanks to Smashing Pumpkins for help with the thread title:

     
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  2. Looking at NDE super-transcendence vs Reincarnation vs Afterlives described by mediums/shamans/astral travelers/etc:

    Perhaps NDEs talking about time transcendent souls bathed in universal love is the goal. They are either a reminder of why we descended into matter (Positive Gnosticism) or one of the glitches in the prison (Negative Gnosticism).

    Reincarnation is then the result of being caught within the emotional web of this reality, which would explain those cases connecting birthmarks to violent deaths.

    The afterlives of those communicating to mediums represent realities perhaps more malleable to individual minds, but are not the true freedom represented by the NDE.
     
  3. Independent sources of information: reports by NDErs, the writings of spirits through evidential mediums, and transcripts of past life regressions, agree that the earth is a school where we develop character traits that make us fit for higher levels in the afterlife. When we achieve a sufficienly high level, we move beyond earth incarnations to new ways of development, but learning never stops throughout eternity.
     
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  4. Juicy Fruit Jackson Jr.

    Juicy Fruit Jackson Jr. New

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    I've already moved beyond earth incarnations. I'm only here for the chicks.
     
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  5. The Origin of 'A Glitch in the Matrix': Philip K. Dick Discusses Déjà Vu and Living in a Simulation, in 1977

     
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  6. Where do you see stuff like UFO abductions and negative paranormal experiences fitting in?

    There's also a certain sense of oddness to all this, which only increases if we accept the spectrum of varied phenomenon under contention - why does the world make the paranormal a liminal/fringe experience? I do realize First Sight or just synchronicities suggests we're manipulating reality all the time, but it does seem like we could have more easily verifiable experiences.

    It's possible we just happen to be on a world (or in a universe) where Psi/Magick/The Astral/Spirits/etc are not very strong/accessible, but I can't help but somewhat feel that takes us into the Multiverse-as-Excuse territory several materialist evangelicals have planted their flags in. There's also the weirdness of events like the Miracle of the Sun and aliens making a guy pancakes. Perhaps that's the Phenomenal leaking into and terraforming the mechanistic Material, but it also seems like one could make the argument that such high strangeness is a result of trying to squeeze souls-as-Prime-Movers into a seemingly material existence. Basically a prison that couldn't quite contain our "divinity", for lack of a better word.

    Or, more positively, we're part of a collective Mind shaking off its sleepiness, its dream of a mundane material world...
     
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  7. Alien abductions are alien abductions. Throughout the universe there is a greater civilization of non-physical beings, ETs and interdmensional beings. The civilization of spirits that we come from before we are born and many ETs are part of this civilization. For the most part it functions in an orderly way guided by advanced spiritual beings. However all those entities in that civilization are fallible and also subject to natural law. ETs have free will just like people. Many abductions are agreed upon before the abductee is born, to serve some higher purpose. Why shouldn't the same benevolent civilization of spirits that sends us here to incarnate and experience wars, disasters, diseases, and painful deaths benevolently send us alien abductors or alien invaders?

    UFOs and Aliens
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/62014-contents-evidence-for-afterlife.html#articles_by_subject_ufo

    By negattive paranormal experiences do you mean seemingly malicious non-physical entities? Human personality survives death. When a truly nasty mean and twisted person dies, what remains is a truly nasty mean and twisted spirit. These would be people who are otherwise of sound mind, if someone misbehaves due to a biological failure, brain tumor, genetic defect, it might not affect their spirit. Organic illness do not carry over to the afterlife, only cognitive disorders carry over. There might be some truly nasty mean and twisted non-human entities floating around too, but they are much less common in this region of the universe.

    In the afterlife they let truly nasty mean and twisted people do their stuff to each other until a person begins to realize that being truly nasty mean and twisted is not such a good way to be. Then they are given help to change themselves and rise to the higher levels.

    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/meg_a's_nde.htm
    "You Can Do No Wrong." What does that mean?
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/08/you-can-do-no-wrong-what-does-that-mean.html

    What happens when we die? A conversation about fear of death.
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2014/04/what-happens-when-we-die-conversation.html
    Because if you remembered how loved you were and joyful you felt were before you were born you would spend you life pining for home and cursing yourself for agreeing to incarnate and rebelling against "the system". You wouldn't take the class seriously if you knew it was just a class. "Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."
    The brain filters consciouses. One of the things it filters out is psi. (Psi is how a spirit (consciousness) normally communicates and perceives his environment.) But sometimes the brain filter leaks by accident or design and people have varying amounts of psychic ability. This explains autistic savants, acquired savant syndrome, psychic abilities caused by a head injury, and unfiltered consciousness during NDEs where blind people see, people see new colors never seen before, and have 360 degree vision, and realer than real perceptions.

    The filter model of the brain:
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/skeptical_fallacies#skeptical_fallacies_brain

    Under hypnosis, pancake recipients often remember a more plausible explanation of events.
    Physical reality is the dream.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
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  8. Here's an interesting Gnostic take by Attanasio:

    "Woman. Everything I am I owe to Her. All the good and the bad in my
    life. All the sorcery and mystery. All the wisdom and madness. Even in
    the very beginning, before there could be space, or time either, when
    every point of each of us touched every point of each of the others,
    She was there. She was Herself the one point out of which everything
    has come. And She was the coming, too. Why do you think we left but to
    follow Her ?


    "In the very, very beginning, before there was a beginning, when
    everything was one point, Woman was all the incomprehensible meaning we
    needed. She held us together. She made us one. Wholly promiscuous, for
    we were all together with Her - yet wholly chaste, for She was as
    utterly alone as we were - one whole and single point. What greater
    happiness could there be ?


    "That was the question that doomed us. That we could think it at all
    bespeaks a terrible flaw in an otherwise perfect wholeness. But, of
    course, it was our perfection that inspired the question in the first
    place. How much happier could we be if we were to be a part of Her yet
    apart from Her ? How much more happiness would there be if we could see
    Her and be seen ?


    "And with that question came the necessity for the space to see and the
    time in which to be seen, the space a hug needs, the time a kiss
    requires, a space and a time vast enough to embrace all the mystery of
    Her and equally ample enough to make room for all of us that wanted to
    see and hold Her.


    "There were many more of us than any of us could have imagined. Each of
    us had thought we were the one and only one until we fell apart. Our
    clamoring for Her drove Her away from us - and naturally we followed,
    out into space and into time, wanting to be with Her as we have always
    been with Her. But in a new way. And so space and time came into being.
    Only none of us, except perhaps for Her, could have known how cold and
    dark it was going to be.


    "And none of us, surely not even She, could have anticipated the woe
    that was to follow - and the joy that woe would require to make itself
    whole again. And none suspected the sorcery and wisdom that we would
    have to learn and possess to match the mystery and madness of losing
    Her. Nor did we realize the vast distances, the expanding light-years
    of space and what great aeonian spans of time it would take even to
    begin to approximate the generous and true wholeness we had enjoyed
    when we were all at one point.


    "Little did any of us foresee our bizarre fate. How strange that, out
    here in space and time, each of us is so wholly separate from others.
    How strange that She is everywhere and yet nowhere. How much stranger
    yet that She has become woman - and out of woman´s diminishment, out of
    the exile from the body of the ovaries to become testicles, out of the
    stunting of her nourishing breasts to useless nipples, out of the
    maiming of the fullness and symmetry of her chromosomes to a genetic
    mutation has come the distortion that is man.


    "Is there any wonder then that we men suffer and in our suffering we
    rage ? We are the immortal points that broke apart from the one point
    to follow Her here. We are the eternal wanderers. And where is She now
    ? She is everywhere and nowhere. She is the embrace of the great
    emptiness that is the universe. She is the long-lingering kiss of time.
    She is everything She always was - and everything we always wanted Her
    to be. Now we serve Her or we rail against Her, because we can never
    escape Her or ever really find Her. She is nameless and She is the very
    breath of all names - for She is the truth that finally embraces us
    all. She is God."
    --Attanasio, The Dragon and the Unicorn
     
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  9. "The path to immortality is hard, and only a few find it. The rest await the Great Day when the wheels of the universe shall be stopped and the immortal sparks shall escape from the sheaths of substance. Woe unto those who wait, for they must return again, unconscious and unknowing, to the seed-ground of stars, and await a new beginning...”
    ― Thoth Hermes Trismegistus
     
  10. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    I think I've said that I really like the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas, and I seem to have a different take on them from most people... That two becoming one is, reconciling internal perception and external perception as the same thing. Therefore what I put into the external world, goes into my internal world. That the external world is dead, the dead are not alive, and the living will never die.

    And my own feeling is it also seems to contain a message that you should each decide whether or not to prolong this existence, by not bring anymore children into the world, thus ending the cycle of birth and death, and bringing the whole thing to a close.

    The thing is, that even though that is what I feel the GoT is saying, it's message seems a bit too radical to me.

    Although, I still accept much of its insights ( internal external etc), which also indicate we are still struggling with exactly the same questions as they were back then, despite all our technological advances.

    My one and only STE had the distinct message that nothing that happens here matters, and ALL that matters is that I return.

    I dunno why I would have left, and I don't know why my return is the big issue?

    The ideas of a prison, or a learning experience have crossed my mind as your outlined in your opening post. As have other weird ideas from time to time... Such as it's some sort of life cycle, or birth cycle, that my body is an egg in which I'm developing. That we've been inadvertently caught or trapped in something (perhaps of our own making), and we're trying to be guided out of it, or to switch it off. Or that I'm a 'snack' for something else, and I'm having the wool pulled over my eyes. Or that we're in servitude, processing and working on stuff for summat else, and I just have to see through the lies...

    Ok, these all sound a bit nutty... But I do think about this stuff...
     
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  11. manjit

    manjit New

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    Great question (I missed this post somehow until today) and responses.

    I have to say I was especially taken by Max_B's comment about the Gospel of Thomas saying: "by not bring anymore children into the world, thus ending the cycle of birth and death, and bringing the whole thing to a close." etc.

    I am going to get a copy of the Gospel of Thomas and read the whole thing, but I would love to hear more about this, page references, what made you come to this conclusion, anything basically?

    My posts tend to be too long so I won't get into it, but this comment has a very special meaning to me - I independently came to a similar conclusion many many years ago and just about the only rule I have in life is don't have children (so by guilty association, marriage is unlikely as I couldn't expect a partner to not want children). I thought I was pretty much unique in this perspective.....based on my natural proclivity as well as a host of visionary experiences....so was extremely interested by that comment.

    That my "paranormal" experiences (mainly to do with the "demi-urge") over the last 7 or so years has converged "naturally" with much of the gnostic teachings, I find makes it all the more fascinating. Especially seeing as I was not overly familiar with the gnostic teachings (I had read some, such as the Pistis Sophia and some other scripture quotes, but I was fairly young at the time and I filtered it through my understanding at the time, ie. I didn't really understand the meaning).

    Any insights you'd care to share about this aspect would be gratefully received.

    NB - I'm starting to really enjoy the modern gnosticism. For example the "Tech-Gnosis" piece Sciborg_S_Patel posted by I believe Erik Davis is one of the best online articles I've read in a long long time! Fantastic stuff!
     
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  12. @manjit & @Max_B :

    Would love for you guys to describe your experiences. Manjit, if you think it's too long perhaps divide them up into different posts? That way we might comment on some of the symbolism and similarities to other experience.

    Thanks!
     
  13. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    The GoT was introduced to me by a Methodist friend, who was shocked at my initial interpretation, as I've never been exposed to any religious teachings, so I came to it fresh, without any previous explanation of the sayings.

    But it's best if you interpret the GoT for yourself. The whole purpose of it seems to be in ones personal search to understand the overall meaning of the sayings for oneself. Trying to isolate the meaning of any particular saying, without the context of the rest of the sayings, doesn't really work in my opinion.

    In my opinion the sayings are ordered and build up meaning, and also rather interconnected, so that the sayings you don't understand - but later unlock - will alter your overall understanding of the whole document again and again.

    I wouldn't be in any rush either, I've lived with the document for over 10 years, dipping back into it every so often, and my understanding of it's meaning has changed quite radically over this period, as I've unlocked the meaning of more difficult sayings in a way that makes sense to me.
     
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  14. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    What experiences did you mean?
     
  15. This one, if you want to:

    'My one and only STE had the distinct message that nothing that happens here matters, and ALL that matters is that I return.'

    I know you had an experience of clairvoyance, but I thought that was separate from this STE?
     
  16. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Yes it was... I'm sure I've posted my STE before... but here it is, I've just cut n pasted it from oberf...

    I believe that I was around 11 or 12 at the time, and awoke in the early hours of one morning from an intense dream-like experience, sobbing and face wet with tears. I don’t believe this was an NDE, as there is nothing to suggest that I was in any danger at the time, rather it was perhaps more like some type of transcendental experience.

    This is what I remember…

    I was in the shadows, at the back of a large balcony hewn from what looked like hard black granite. I was dressed in a dark one piece plain robe which almost touched the floor, a large hood hung down my back. About fifteen feet in front of me stood a row of perhaps 9 figures, backs to me, looking out from the balcony. Each was dressed in the same manner as I was, although each had their hood pulled up. A space had been left between two of the figures on the left hand side. I knew instinctively that this space had been left for me.

    As I walked from the shadows at the rear of the balcony, I become aware of a growing sense of joy permeating me from all around, joy from the ‘others’, joy that I had returned. I felt some guilt about the life I had lead on earth, yet it was made clear to me that I was not merely forgiven, that all that had happened during my life on earth was simply unimportant, all that mattered was my return.

    As I continued to move forward to take my place, I began to pull up my hood, the feeling of total and unconditional love continued to grow, I felt humbled, was sobbing with the relief, bursting with joy that I was home, and with the knowledge that I was ‘so’ loved. I felt overwhelmed with the joy they were feeling at my return.

    Finally I reached the balcony edge and took my place amongst them, to be greeted by an amazing scene. This was not just one balcony, there were thousands, millions arrayed above me, and below me, stretching away to my right and my left. Each identical to the balcony where I stood, and containing the same number of figures in identical robes with hoods pulled up. Opposite my balcony, separated by perhaps 20 meters of void, was another wall of balconies, equal and directly opposite my own, like a mirror image. The balconies on each wall extended further out as you looked downwards, yet the distance between each of the walls, never got any less. i.e. the walls of balconies sloped inwards, yet they never met. I understood that they went on for infinity in every direction.

    The void between them was filled with light, yet it was unclear where it came from, although it was brighter above and to my right, further away wisps of cloud or mist floated, until at the extreme range of my vision, the walls disappeared into the mist.

    At this point I slowly became aware of the music, unlike any music I have heard before, powerful and emotional it seemed to emanate from the brighter area in the mists above me, I could feel this music blowing through me, ripping away the last shreds of my existence on earth, catching me up in the music, joining me together with the others.

    By now, the sense of joy at my return, that came from them all, everyone of them, was overwhelming, they were so genuinely overjoyed to have me back, so full of love for me on my return. I knew then my purpose (although I cannot tell you what it was). I also knew that I would stand on that balcony forever, as one with them all, at peace. Wrapped in, and pierced through with love, one with the music. Time had a different meaning here.
     
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  18. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Alternatively, I would definitely recommend the Gnostic Society Library web site for different GoT translations, and other related documents...

    http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

    Btw... I thought you wanted to comment on our experiences symbolism and similarities to other experience?
     
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  19. manjit

    manjit New

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    "Ruperto started whistling again as I sat down in the darkness of the platform. Images started
    pouring into my head. In my notes I describe them as "unusual or scary: an agouti [forest
    rodent) with bared teeth and a bloody mouth; very brilliant, shiny, and multicolored snakes; a
    policeman giving me problems; mv father looking worried. . .."

    Deep hallucinations submerged me. I suddenly found myself surrounded by two gigantic boa
    constrictors that seemed fifty feet long. I was terrified. "These enormous snakes are there, my
    eyes are closed and I see a spectacular world of brilliant lights, and in the middle of these hazy
    thoughts, the snakes start talking to me without words. They explain that 1 am just a human
    being. I feel my mind crack, and in the fissures, I see the bottomless arrogance of my
    presuppositions. It is profoundly true that I am just a human being, and. most of the time. I
    have the impression of understanding even-thing, whereas here I find myself in a more
    powerful reality that 1 do not understand at all and that, in my arrogance, I did not even
    suspect existed. I feel like crying in view of the enormity of these revelations. Then it dawns on
    me that this self-pit)- is a part of my arrogance. I feel so ashamed that 1 no longer dare feel
    ashamed. Nevertheless, I have to throw up again."

    Cosmic Serpent, Jeremy Narby - an anthropologist recounting his first ayahuasca experience. Wasn't sure if this was one more the "pscyhedelics" thread, but the slightly sinister overtones of the "They explain that I am just a human being." made it seem more apt for this thread :)

    This book is widely available in the public domain, such as here:

    https://archive.org/details/CosmicSerpent

    My impression is there is a very important clue to the larger "mystery" in this book, after having read about half of it so far.....
     
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  20. manjit

    manjit New

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    Hi Max - Thanks for the comments. I didn't realise the GoT was such a relatively small document!. I read the Lambdin translation (coincidentally from the site you linked above I think) last night over a couple of hours, pausing after each saying for a few minutes to ponder the meaning.

    This is of course nothing compared to your deep investigation of it, and 10 years of dipping in and out. Which is why I would genuinely appreciate any personal insights you feel comfortable sharing about this perspective re. "not bringing any more children", as I doubt I will ever discuss this with anyone with as much personal knowledge & affiliation with the text, and to be honest I cannot see myself having the dedication to it you suggest! I would genuinely just love to hear your personal understanding of it.

    I certainly couldn't see what you suggest unambiguously, but there were several "sayings" which could be interpreted as hinting towards it? Certainly a few nearer the end.

    Anyway, loved reading your STE experience again. Can't recall if I commented last time, so apologies if repeating myself....

    But your experience of the "music" that "ripped" through you, this is a very common thread through a LOT of "other-wordly" journeys and experiences (Eben's NDE also "opens" up into a beautiful realm through a magical "sound", as also in many other NDEs, as I'm sure you know) , and a fundamental aspect of many eastern & tantric mystical practices. You spot references to it everywhere in their texts & mystics sayings. Om. A more "gross" or less subtle aspect of this other-worldly sound also frequently occurs in slightly more down-to-earth "paranormal" phenomena too (I believe there may be an article about this aspect of mystical "sound" in one of the earlier editions of the fantastic "Paranthropology journal" that Sciborg_S_Patel has linked here, if not, D Scott Rogo has a 2 volume book called "Nada" or something which goes into some of it)

    Finally, and I hope you don't think I'm making light of your experience, because I'm certainly not, but your experience of seeing all these groups of beings on balconies, and then infinite balconies..... it kind of reminds of several recent Sci-fi films, such as The Matrix and some others I forget....very cool experience! :) It also reminds me a little, I believe, and you probably already aware of it, of aspects of an NDE with some lady called Judy Danison or something? I know it's definitely on the afterlifetv website if you're not aware of it, well worth checking it out. Cheers!
     
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