Grant Cameron – Classified documents suggest UFO/consciousness link |324|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    I'm not sure it's correct to say we have no way of knowing. I'm pretty sure there are past-life regression type reports which fill in at least some of this portion of existence. The same might apply to some reports via mediums. That's at least two lines of research to be followed. I won't point to any specific reports, it is more of a general comment that I don't think we should consider anything to be inherently unknowable.
     
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  2. EthanT

    EthanT Member

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    It's really the essence of what the mystics (of all religions/cultures) have been telling us since practically time immemorial. We're all just a bunch of modern-day boneheads slowly re-discovering all this ;-)
     
  3. EthanT

    EthanT Member

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    Alex, these videos are great! I find that with an interviewee like Cameron who was kind of fast and furious with the information he was putting out, the video helped me stay focused longer. Ever think about doing all your interviews in video format?
     
  4. Alex

    Alex New

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  5. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx. I'd like to try and do more of them.
     
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  6. tim

    tim New

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    Personally, I've always been quite happy to just "listen" to your (Alex's) interviews. When I have the time, I like to sit back without having to focus on anything visual and just listen. Just my opinion, others may want more.
     
  7. Alex

    Alex New

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    I prefer listening as well... allows multitasking :)

    but videos are good too. they require more work. easy to make bad ones :) I'm happy with these as a first attempt.

    I guess I should put the audio up on YT as well because some folks never get to the skeptiko website.
     
  8. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well OK - but I still find it exciting that ideas in this area are converging. Just as with science (at its best) - we don't have to simply revere past masters, we can think about going beyond them in various ways. Democritus conceived of the atom, but science has moved beyond that now - we can see his idea in a much broader context!

    David
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
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  9. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think I'd probably still listen to the audio versions, but there are a few past podcasts that would have been interesting in video format!

    David
     
  10. JD1

    JD1 Member

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    Well, there was certainly a lot there in the podcast. To be honest, I find it overwhelming, and I don't know what the implications for all those things are for regular people.

    I have enough problems going on right now. I'm really not in any condition to deal with a massive consciousness shift in the next few years when I still have issues with more basic things.
     
  11. tim

    tim New

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    Yes you could put them on you tube, that'd be good. I listen to the majority of them but I don't comment on subjects where I don't know much about it. I think you did a great job tackling Steve Novella, just one example. You demonstrated that he doesn't have the material he said he had to back up his assertions, he never got back to you because there is nothing for him to come back with. It was all sleight of hand. That's you in combative mood which is necessary sometimes. Nelson, Churchland, Blackmore good stuff, richly deserved IMHO
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  12. Alex

    Alex New

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  13. Alex

    Alex New

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  14. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx :) Novella... longtime ago, but not forgotten :) I wish someone would ask him to come back on Skeptiko and talk about NDE science. I've given up trying, but a fresh approach might work.
     
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  15. Alex

    Alex New

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    agreed. we have a lot of lines of evidence pointing in similar directions.
     
  16. Alex

    Alex New

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    good point... and it's kinda cool that we're about to confirm a lot of that stuff thru a modern scientific approach.
     
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  17. tim

    tim New

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    It's not likely he would take a request from me seriously although he did respond to one email I sent him. If you've asked him and he's ignoring you, that probably indicates he knows he's got nothing to add about what was previously said which if I remember correctly was something like this.

    Three explanations are triangulating around NDE's. Psychological, pathological and pharmacological ...I think it was those and that pretty much covers everything. The thing is when you listen back to the interview (which I thought was very good), he doesn't really provide anything much with any substance and several times he states things that are completely wrong. I remember he said that OBE's of the type reported by people who have a cardiac arrest (floating around and observing things while their brain is not functioning) can be stimulated by exciting the right temporal lobe. And that is total nonsense !

    But because he's well known personality MD (and that deserves credit of course and yes he is a pleasant guy) he can pull rank, or he thinks he can. Funny how MD'S in the proponents camp don't get the same respect from "sceptics," by and large.

    He also said that the EEG goes flat in 60 seconds (during cardiac arrest) presumably to buy more time to squeeze the NDE in. That's wrong too, it's been measured on defibrillator implantations and also in animals (heart stopped) which I don't particularly agree with but the exact figure is 10-20 seconds. But even more importantly, consciousness is lost instantly. you know all this of course.

    Apologies for the off topic to everyone
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  18. Alex

    Alex New

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    good summary of the situation. looks different looking back... pretty simple now that we've seen it repeated so many times.
     
  19. iPsoFacTo

    iPsoFacTo New

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    Having listened to the whole thing...

    There's always been that whole spiritual/psi/channeling connection in the ufo field. Back then those folks were flat out called cranks. There's been a claimed connection between ufo & paranormal phenomena in that some ufo close encounters would experience poltergeist activity afterwards. Nowadays the ufo/spiritual/consciousness thing has coalesced into a more sophisticated whole.

    The whole ufo field is so bogged down with totally debunked stories continually being rehashed as true, certain governmental agencies messing around with researchers heads with disinformation, the intelligence behind the phenomena doing its own mindfuck with the human race, plus the idiotic massive ego driven internecine fighting among the players in the field that you can't trust anything you hear for so much as the time of day.

    What Cameron believes v what Alex believes here, I would go with what John Mack was quoted as saying in the interview, (to paraphrase).... "any interpretation of the phenomena has more to do with one's self."

    As the field stands, I would take whatever Cameron (or anyone for that matter) says specifically to the ufo field with regards to documents being true or what others claiming to be military/government 'insiders' are saying as gospel with a really big grain of salt.

    Would have liked to have dug deeper into the mind controlling technology aspect of the ufo. There's two ways of looking at that.... either mind "merely" controlling a mechanical device (which we are doing today even), or much much much more exotically.... the mind/consciousness being the actual mechanism for transportation.

    Hell, a long time ago my own brain came up with the idea that traversing space and time instantaneously was going to be more a mental thing than a purely mechanical one, lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  20. EthanT

    EthanT Member

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    For me personally, the videos I was thinking of weren't anything extra beyond say recording a skype call. I figure that way people who don't want to watch a video don't need to, you can minimize it, put it in the background, and just listen without really missing anything of substance. But, if it helps somebody keep focus by seeing the actual people engaged in the podcast discussion, well then folks can do that too.

    The podcasts would appeal and cover the viewing styles of more people. Bot, doesn't seem like anything really fancy needs to be done. Joe Rogan, Buddha at the Gas Pump, Bernardo, etc - these guys aren't doing anything really fancy, but it just makes things feel a bit more engaging, if that makes any sense. So, yeah, the videos you just did are perfect, imho. I even like the "digest" version of those, which cover key topics within the specific podcast. I miss some podcasts because of lack of time, but with smaller "digest" versions, at least I can probably squeeze in some key parts. Plus, those are easy to share around the Internet.

    My 2 cents ;-)
     
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