Grant Cameron – Classified documents suggest UFO/consciousness link |324|

I might watch the video, but to be honest I don't really find the Electric Universe crowd very convincing, especially when it comes to the technical details (which they seem to avoid more often than not, or at least that's my impression). I do find it aesthetically pleasing in some ways, but that's about as far as it goes with me. I
Unfortunately, that is also rather my impression of the Electric Universe crowd. However, Ron Hatch does seem to have some standing in the GPS community:

http://www.gps.gov/governance/advisory/members/hatch/

His talk would be well worth your time, I think.

Remember also that it was LoneShaman who first recommended this video.

David
 
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I'm pretty sure you're right manjit, I think he emphasized the melody over the light, IIRC.

One other semi-random thought - I always liked how, in the Bible, there is the saying "let there be light", but the Sun was created like a day, or two, later. Sort of sounds like they're referring to something other than "physical" light, like maybe more along the lines of the nascent participation of awareness, consciousness in creation, or within the realm of space-time. Not a unique theme, I'm pretty sure!
Yeah I've wondered about the "Unseen Light" myself. I've mentioned it before but I like this account of a mystic vision recounted in Beyond Physicalism:

"I found that I was no longer looking at it, but was it; a distinct, indescribable, but in no way vague, still less emotional, shift of consciousness into the plant itself. Or rather I and the plant were one and indistinguishable; as if the plant were a part of my consciousness. I dared scarcely to breathe, held in a kind of fine attention in which I could sense the very flow of life in the cells. I was not perceiving the flower but living it. I was aware of the life of the plant as a slow flow or circulation of a vital current of liquid light of the utmost purity."

That idea, "vital current of liquid light", struck me as an interesting phrase.
 
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David and Arouet, I could be talking out my you know what, but I thought the idea behind pan-psychism was that the level of awareness was directly proportional to the number of choices present? If that's true, all electrons basically have the same set of choices, but I suppose given the uncertainty in QM they could pick something different. One takes spin down, the other takes spin up? So, perhaps we could say they have the same level of awareness, but different experiences .... ?

That's the basic gist behind hidden variables, but Bell's theorem rules out local hidden variable theories. Bell's Theorem basically says that results between any local hidden variable theory and QM would be incompatible, meaning their predictions would be inconsistent and QM would ultimately fail if there were local hidden variables in nature. So, that's how we know, but .... last I checked (and believe it, or not, the field is progressing fairly rapidly) non-local hidden variable theories have not yet been ruled out.

I was going to touch on some of that if I ever get around to replying to the other thread we were on!
Ethan, how would you define "non-local hidden variable"?

I see these terms a lot but it's not clear if they mean the same things to everyone - especially the "non-local".
 
You mean the guy who would throw tantrums and resort to ridicule rather than give a well-argued, evidence-based response? Hardly a recommendation.
He also brought a wealth of knowledge and ideas to this forum - I'd love to have him return. We all have our off days!

David
 
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Ethan, how would you define "non-local hidden variable"?

I see these terms a lot but it's not clear if they mean the same things to everyone - especially the "non-local".
I had a similar question. In this context would the standard definitions even apply? We're talking about properties that are not currently incorporated in the formulas at all.

What if experience has only the slightest effect on the dynamics of a particle. An analogy might be a shudder. And perhaps the intensity of it varies given the nature of the particular experience but mostly within a limited range. Could the proportions average out to something that approximates the uncertainty distribution we observe in QM? Would that be considered non-local? We're talking about intrinsic fundamental properties within a single particle. Does the concept of locality even apply here? Or could it be local but not contemplated by the bell experiments.

I'm not suggesting I believe this is the case, just exploring the idea.
 
Talking about UFOs, top secret government memos, high ranking military personnel, Roswell and my posts from the other day in this thread, two very timely blog posts, worth reading for those with an interest & directly relevant to what I wrote the other day:

Before I conclusively draw a connection between early UFO events and JSC personnel, it is important to review the history of US post war deception planning. A Top Secret July 5, 1946 memo from the Office of the Chief of Staff assigned responsibility for the supervision of War Department cover and deception matters to the Director of Plans and Operations.
This July 21, 1947 FBI memo is extremely important. It unequivocally documents the connection between US strategic deception planners and early UFO events by relating how Colonel Carl Goldbranson petitioned FBI assistance in investigating UFO events.
So for those who question the importance of Goldbranson to this analysis, only one question need be answered. What are the odds that the senior member of the principal US organization and specific section charged with planning and implementing U.S. strategic deception is on record in FBI official memorandum, getting his hands dirty in the UFO controversy of 1947? Goldbranson had no reason to be involved unless he was actively promoting a deception plan.
Did the FBI know of Goldbranson’s deception role? Apparently not, because they would have never agreed to Goldbranson’s request if they thought they were being played in an unwitting deception game. The depth of the US deception planners’ involvement in the UFO events of 1947 and their motives for perpetrating strategic deception will be revealed in my upcoming book The Roswell Deception. Stay tuned.
http://historydeceived.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/human-deception-at-playduring-ufo-wave.html


In his ongoing research to clarify the extent Cold War spy games influenced public perception of the UFO phenomenon, writer and former intelligence analyst James Carrion recently linked military deception planners to the UFO wave of 1947.
http://ufotrail.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/mirage-men-conclusively-linked-to-ufo.html
 
Did eventually listen to this one the other day - over 2 hours long!

I did really enjoy this one, especially the second half which was really thought provoking.

Not sure if I agree or fully understand Alex's comment of "everything must be true", or personally able to reconcile Cameron's belief in recovered aliens, spaceships, the government knowing so much about it, women piloting nuts & bolts spaceships with their mind in their dreams etc, with the ideas he promotes in the 2nd half of the interview re. the consciousness aspect?

Having spend many years thinking over these things, I cannot help but feel Cameron is a little confused and muddled in his thinking regarding these ideas as they appear contradictory in many ways. For example, just how do people fly nuts & bolts UFOs with their minds during dreams, what is the precise mechanism there?

Still, I did enjoy this interview and the 2nd half was intriguing! Thanks!
 

Join Grant Cameron for a visual presentation of the WikiLeaks emails that have recently been released in regards to ETIs, Extraterrestrial Intelligences, UFO Disclosure, Consciousness and debriefing presidents on ET/Consciousness matters. The key players in the emails are John Podesta, Tom Delonge, Edgar Mitchell & other Hillary Clinton staff members.
http://www.presidentialufo.com/

 
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Hey everybody, I listened to the podcast and thought it had many interesting points. Regarding Alex's first question, I am not really sure if I believe in UFO's. I am very open to the possibility, and it seems very likely to be true, but still exploring it. I was also wondering what your stance is on these matters, Alex? I feel quite confused about all of this and because of that, I was thinking to bring it up again to hear more what others have to say.
I must admit that I am a bit surprised that this topic hasn't been covered here that much on skeptiko, due to the massive implications it would have on everything we know about this world, and so many of the topics discussed here on skeptiko, if indeed was true.
At the risk of sounding gullible, I was also wondering what you all think of Steven Greer? He speaks very confidently, about these matters, and he goes really far with this conspiracy of UFO's, that sometimes it just feels way too much out there. And yet, I still feel like if all of this is true, and especially if you experienced what he claims to have experienced - phoenix lights, NDE, Atacama Humanoid, briefing the CIA Director, briefing the Clintons, etc.. then there is a limit to how much you should refrain yourself from coming out with this, especially when such issues are so easily ridiculed and scoffed at. It seems to me like he portrays a fuller and more detailed picture than most of the other people in the field, and I am wondering why that is. Does it have to do with him not being skeptical enough, and too sure of himself, or perhaps he is doing what others are not doing all the way? It would seem to me like if there really is a massive conspiracy, as so many people point to such as Grant, then Steven Greer discusses topics that are really just a step or two away from that, and is giving the topic the push it needs.
I saw that some people here dismissed him as a fraud? help me out here? other thoughts anybody?
thx,
 
Hey everybody, I listened to the podcast and thought it had many interesting points. Regarding Alex's first question, I am not really sure if I believe in UFO's. I am very open to the possibility, and it seems very likely to be true, but still exploring it. I was also wondering what your stance is on these matters, Alex?
to me, the evidence seems overwhelming.


I must admit that I am a bit surprised that this topic hasn't been covered here that much on skeptiko, due to the massive implications it would have on everything we know about this world, and so many of the topics discussed here on skeptiko, if indeed was true.
I agree... massive implications. many skeptiko episodes:
http://skeptiko.com/category/consciousness-research/alien-contact/


At the risk of sounding gullible, I was also wondering what you all think of Steven Greer? He speaks very confidently, about these matters, and he goes really far with this conspiracy of UFO's, that sometimes it just feels way too much out there. And yet, I still feel like if all of this is true, and especially if you experienced what he claims to have experienced - phoenix lights, NDE, Atacama Humanoid, briefing the CIA Director, briefing the Clintons, etc.. then there is a limit to how much you should refrain yourself from coming out with this, especially when such issues are so easily ridiculed and scoffed at. It seems to me like he portrays a fuller and more detailed picture than most of the other people in the field, and I am wondering why that is. Does it have to do with him not being skeptical enough, and too sure of himself, or perhaps he is doing what others are not doing all the way? It would seem to me like if there really is a massive conspiracy, as so many people point to such as Grant, then Steven Greer discusses topics that are really just a step or two away from that, and is giving the topic the push it needs.
I saw that some people here dismissed him as a fraud? help me out here? other thoughts anybody?
thx,
Steven Greer is a lightening rod kinda character... lotta different reactions. But some of what he says seems very solid. He's provided darn good documentation for his "dinner party CIA briefing" story. This alone gives him major cred.

Sounds to me like you're bumping up against the "how can this be" question I always talk about :) Yeah, it's a bizarre world that we live in when all this stuff is "proven" and everyone just marches off to the mall like zombies.
 
Hey Alex, thanks for replying.

It's nice to know where you stand here.

I watched many of the shows on that link you posted but not all of them. I still feel like there are many gaps in these shows regarding this field, and I am not quite able to get a clear picture of what is really going on here. Perhaps I need to get more acquainted with the data. any recommendations could be nice. I am still honestly baffled by this, and how it is possible that this is such a widespread phenomenon and yet there are no crystal clear pictures/ videos of a sighting, as many would expect there to be. I understand there might be reasons for that as well, but it's still quite strange that it's so.

I don't think that I am bumping against this question of how this can be in the way you mentioned. I think that in a way death itself is crazier than anything mentioned on this show, and i would be fascinated by such a worldview shift if i would be convinced. of course it's scary as well, but still..
I just want to know what is actually going on, and I think it's crucial to be careful here before jumping on the wagon. but it is indeed a bizarre world we live in.

Regarding Steven Greer, have you considered having him on the show? I sure would be interested, as you might have guessed ;).
 

19:59: "It's all consciousness ... people fly the ships with their mind".

It is a funny way to say it, but he is saying it isn't all consciousness because the implication is that there are ships and they are real hardware ships.

With regard to "magic" ie UFO and paranormal phenomena being tied together ... I've mentioned before: we used to get an alien coming through at a class I atteneded on spirit communication.
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/mystical_experiences#mystical_aliens
 
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