Grant Cameron, No Such Thing As Evil ET? |449|

Alex

Administrator
I remember reading about a woman who had researched people who hear inner voices. She went from pentacostles to schizophrenics and concluded that inner voices can be either benign or malignant to one degree or another depending on the context both individual and cultural. interestingly she discovered that schizophrenics in certain African countries in large part were perceiving benign supportive voices while Americans would generally hear disturbing threatening voices.
thanks for posting this. I've been digging into this topic a lot lately... I give a lot of credit to researchers who tried to nail this down... we need a lot more in this area. that said, what I'm learning suggests this explanation might be incomplete. one reference point might be my upcoming interview with Dr. Tom zinser
 

Alex

Administrator
I am sorry, Alex, but I used audible versions of Newton’s two books and it would take forever to find the location.

Ziewe describes the lowest astral realm of evil beings in a way similar to Zinser. The beings are free to continue atrocities but it's virtual. A minority eventually come to desire to change their ways and are then given help, as with the former SRA woman I met with a medium.
this is helpful. Thanks
 

Alex

Administrator
What Grant would say is that "the voice you hear" is a reflection of "you" and not a characteristic of the third party that you experience as the voice.

This is why more and more are starting to refer to "it" as, "the phenomenon." Stephen King was decades ahead -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_(novel)
I think this starts to bleed into the tulpa thing. I mean at what point does part of us that we break off become "real"? to what extent are we real?
 

Alex

Administrator
I find with channelling, the role of the person doing the channelling is significant, more than is often acknowledged. In general, after a while I hear the voice of the scribe more loudly. It is difficult to determine where is the boundary and assign weight to the contribution of the scribe versus any other source.
agreed. one of the problems with the biorobot meaningless universe sinkhole is that it doesn't leave room for so many of the real questions we want answered? imagine if we had a team of a dozen Julie Beischel's and Dean Radin's looking into this?
 

Alex

Administrator
I think sometimes those in the spiritual community just choose not to focus on negativity. It's really no different than here. I really don't understand the issue with trying to figure out if there are negative entities or not. Are there negative entities on this planet? Of course!!! The real issue for me is how to see the world in a loving way. Love for me is the answer (cliche, I know) Love is the ultimate reality and I interpret my reality based on that.
I get your point. there's no reason to stare into the abyss :) I agree regarding the Ultimate Reality :) then again, I can't help but feel that there's something to the Shadow Of Darkness that's being presented. maybe it's on the field of play for a reason :)
 

Alex

Administrator
Trying to bring sanity or good communication to a topic like this one really points out the limitations of language. Consciousness is a verb; separation is a noun kind of a thing. So, I'm right back to the Miguel Connor idea or focus on when did good come into the world? If you accept the idea that the physical world is a place ruled by Satan or whatever name you choose, then you can begin to find a way out of here by taking personal responsibility for your choices. "Life has no meaning except in terms of responsibility." Reinhold Niebuhr
interesting juxtaposition with the last post :) what do you think of the idea that light / love is the Ultimate Reality?
 

Alex

Administrator
I thought that Grant Cameron had some interesting perspectives and I don't have too much disagreement with what he said. I just think that he is a poor listener and communicator. It seems he may be letting his ego get the best of him. If one believes in the nondual concept that everything is consciousness, then wouldn't developing the skill of listening to and understanding others be an important thing to learn? How else can you communicate with people and have a positive influence on them? It should have been very easy for Mr Cameron to understand what Alex was saying and respond to it in an intelligent manner, because they really don't have much disagreement. I think that intellect combined with some type of personal spiritual practice of self-reflection yields the best results.
I have a lot of respect for Grant. he's been a major player in the UFO community and has been a leader in the move towards a Consciousness centered perspective. He's also a preacher's son :) ... it comes out when he's on a roll :)
 
I get your point. there's no reason to stare into the abyss :) I agree regarding the Ultimate Reality :) then again, I can't help but feel that there's something to the Shadow Of Darkness that's being presented. maybe it's on the field of play for a reason :)
I think there probably is. It all comes down to what you think reality is. I believe that this world is ultimately an illusion so if some particularly entity is causing issues, it's probably mimicking a kind of trickster entity...more manipulative than evil.
 

Alex

Administrator
Do such entities literally exist? Speaking purely personally, I tend to think they don't.
fair enough, Michael... I mean I think this is what it all boils down to.

so I look at Diana Walsh Pasulka picking up spaceship junk in the New Mexico desert with Tyler... and then finding the same unearthly materials that Jacques Vallee finds... as being proof of a nuts-and-bolts reality behind the tic-tac videos that the dod keeps pumping out. how do you see this?
 

Alex

Administrator
Isn’t there some serious debate as to whether or not MPD is a real thing? Serious question. That’s the impression I’ve been under.
super interesting point... like to say about this in my upcoming interview with Tom zinser. not trying to pump the interview but it's top-of-mind some editing it right now :)
 

Alex

Administrator
Are you saying that Michael Newtons books align with the reported experiences of key OBE explorers? If so, That’s Not my impression at all. I could draw several parallels I suppose, like the use of seemingly physical energy bodies, like the ones we have now, As use for a avatars. along with other similarities. But the map and purposes and structure of these other realms seems very rigid and systematic in Newton’s work. As if he has it ALL figured out. And it, to me, it doesn’t line up well with Jurgens experiences and what guys like that say about the structure and function of the afterworlds. Newton has the whole thing drawn out perfectly as if everybody always does the same thing, And that we all follow this cosmic order of things. I think it seems clear that really isn’t so ordered and is highly individual.
great stuff. thx for this detail. I'm now aligning with you and David :)
 
fair enough, Michael... I mean I think this is what it all boils down to.

so I look at Diana Walsh Pasulka picking up spaceship junk in the New Mexico desert with Tyler... and then finding the same unearthly materials that Jacques Vallee finds... as being proof of a nuts-and-bolts reality behind the tic-tac videos that the dod keeps pumping out. how do you see this?
First, I believe everything is, at bottom, mental. Second, I believe that communication can occur between minds, either telepathically (not frequently), or perhaps more often, "unconsciously" in the realm of the collective unconscious. Also, of course, communication can and does occur in the usual way via speech or writing. If DWP and JV find artifacts that are similar, there may be some cultural influence, but beyond that, they could be generated by the collective unconscious, which, I suspect, is able to a degree to create mental processes that we may interpret as "unearthly". Hence we have the nuts-and-bolts interpretations of phenomena that even go so far as to appear to leave behind unusual metals, etc.

I'm not questioning whether or not such artifacts are tangible to the senses; I accept they probably are. But seeing as I believe that everyday artefacts that seem very much "earthly" are equally tangible to the senses, I have to say that that doesn't make them literally any more real either. The senses are about perception, and they present to us things that have apparent concreteness -- that impression is overwhelming and lies, I believe, at the root of the naive realism of many materialists. Drop a brick on my foot, and I see it and feel it when it hits -- that's how my senses work, can't help but.

Put in idealistic terms, some mental process that I perceive as a brick, obeying another mental process that is termed gravity, interacts with a third mental process (actually a group of many mental processes) that I think of as me. There's no doubt something is happening, but people are so used to thinking in terms of a literal world in which there are bricks and gravity and people, it's quite hard to interpret things in any other way. I like Donald Hoffman's idea that bricks, gravity and people are merely icons for something (which I believe to comprise mental processes) that lies behind them. These processes can't be directly apprehended as they actually are, and in that sense, everyday ways of perceiving reality are illusions; often remarkably consistent illusions -- but why wouldn't they be if what they're representing is reality -- a reality in which our own collective unconscious may be able to some degree to create "things" that we can perceive just as we can perceive what we think of as stars and planets?

I think it's important to realises that if we have creative abilities, they're limited; our dissociated, seemingly individual consciousnesses can't create what we think of as stars or planets, which are created by Mind At Large. But they can, or at least I suspect so, collectively create seemingly nuts-and-bolts phenomena such as bits of alien spacecraft made out of what appear to us as "unearthly" materials that in everyday "reality" we don't come across.

We live in an apparently regular world. Most of it seems to be governed by the inherent patterns and regularities of M@L; but to a small extent, I suspect we can create on our own account -- probably always within the overall schema created by M@L's mentation. These days, we often think of that schema in "scientific" terms, but science is just the latest way of describing what we perceive. If I find a piece of exotic alloy purportedly from an alien spaceship, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm rather saying that it represents something we collectively ("unconsciously", or without reflective awareness) may have created, and most things that are actually created can be perceived, in much the same way that M@L's creations can be perceived.

Thinking dualistically (even moreso materialistically) is what often throws a monkey wrench in the works. It leads to a lot of contradictions and puzzles. For me, the most productive way of thinking, the most parsimonious one with the least contradiction, is idealism. I could be wrong, of course, but for what it's worth, that's how I see things. Hopefully this addresses your question.

Edit: Just watched the following video (h/t a posting at Bernardo's forum here). I think it weaves in and out of some of the points I've made -- not saying it's about exactly the same thing, but, like I say, it touches on them:


And here's a more extensive interview at Batgap:

 
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Re. Voice Hearing and Schizophrenia. I know a bit of this topic for personal reasons.

There is a dutch psychiatrist Marius Romme who have started the voice hearing network. He was once doing a radio-show in netherlands on voice hearing and to his surprise many "normal" people were hearing voices but they had a different relationship to them. Many were even positive in nature.

There are many other intrepretations on Schizophrenia and I think the "brain-disorder" theory have been thoroughly debunked even if its still the mainstream psychiatry intrepretation. Trauma and especially childhood-trauma seems to play a significant part.

Psychiatrist and psychedelic researcher Stanislav Grof claims a significant part of people diagnosed with schizophrenia is actually experiencing a spiritual awakening and actually need another kind of support.
 
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