Grant Cameron, No Such Thing As Evil ET? |449|

Isn’t there some serious debate as to whether or not MPD is a real thing? Serious question. That’s the impression I’ve been under.
David, I did have some luck running down the guy who said Neil Armstrong was clearly told that telling anyone about the structures he saw on the Moon would cost him & his family dearly: his name is Dr. Steven Greer, a physicist who has written a bit about extraterrestrial contacts. I haven't found the specific YouTube video where he made that threat public. Actually, Dr. Greer is the first one who introduced me to the confusing links between aliens, NDEs, out-of-body experiences, and so on. At first, I thought this stuff fit neatly into separate categories, but that's just not true.
 
If there is ultimate non duality beyond the duality, then why should we be good? Why bother to fight evil?
It's not so much about doing good, it's about accepting what you are. If you're created in Love, then your realization of that fact will bring freedom and joy. It's not about behavior modification because that rarely works.
 
Coincidentally, Mr. Streiber is currently answering questions on Graham Hanckock's message board and someone has asked him about this (well, not directly). I hope he replies.
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?8,1236016
I read one of his newer books about his afterdeath communication with his wife. Even though he's had all those weird experiences, he seems to be a very spiritual person. I think that's important to understand and is relevant to this discussion.
 
I actually just read something from ACIM that's relevant. "All of God's Sons are of equal value, and their equality is there Oneness. The whole power of God is in every part of Him, and nothing contradictory to his Will is either great or small." I think this points to the fact that Oneness still contains relationships....it's just that in reality there aren't separate personalities and wills.
The ego is what is struggling with these issues. It loves the idea of separation and keeps you chasing after illusions. Oneness, imo, is what everyone really seeks, even if subconsciously. And once again, I don't think there is an amorphous blob...there's relationships between all of "God".

If there aren't separate personalities and wills, it is nothing but an amorphous blob.

Absolute equality is a problematic idea as well.

If God's Sons are of equal value, then what about His Daughters? Are they of inferior value? Moreover, there is zero evidence for the existence of God.

Evidence from psychical research (reincarnation, mental mediumship, apparitions etc.) negates the oneness theories. ACIM is nothing but religion. You can believe it if you want, but it is not evidence and it is not based on evidence.
 
If there aren't separate personalities and wills, it is nothing but an amorphous blob.

Absolute equality is a problematic idea as well.

If God's Sons are of equal value, then what about His Daughters? Are they of inferior value? Moreover, there is zero evidence for the existence of God.

Evidence from psychical research (reincarnation, mental mediumship, apparitions etc.) negates the oneness theories. ACIM is nothing but religion. You can believe it if you want, but it is not evidence and it is not based on evidence.
God's Sons means everybody. The Course uses Christian terminology but transforms the meaning. I'm really into psychical research and I don't see any contradiction between the two. It would take me awhile to explain the Course's metaphysics but I'll just say this one point. As long as we're not fully in Oneness and remember that true nature, we will be separate. That goes for this dimension as well as all the others, even the "heavenly" ones. I would point out too that we don't really know what those NDE's mean. Is that really our loved ones or our projections of them? ACIM is not a religion...it just gives one a framework by which to interpret reality. It seems like trying to take all these "evidences" and come up with some "objective" interpretation is a fool's errand. I've been studying everything I can about these topics for 15 years and I've gotten no closer to understanding reality in the objective sense. Now I have something that helps me get through the day to day.
 
Moreover, there is zero evidence for the existence of God.

Evidence from psychical research (reincarnation, mental mediumship, apparitions etc.) negates the oneness theories. ACIM is nothing but religion. You can believe it if you want, but it is not evidence and it is not based on evidence.
Okay, so you're not a strict materialist, I guess. Could you please outline your views on the nature of reality, and what could perhaps be its ultimate nature? I'm interested. Give me something to work with.
 

Alex

Administrator
Re. Voice Hearing and Schizophrenia. I know a bit of this topic for personal reasons.

There is a dutch psychiatrist Marius Romme who have started the voice hearing network. He was once doing a radio-show in netherlands on voice hearing and to his surprise many "normal" people were hearing voices but they had a different relationship to them. Many were even positive in nature.

There are many other intrepretations on Schizophrenia and I think the "brain-disorder" theory have been thoroughly debunked even if its still the mainstream psychiatry intrepretation. Trauma and especially childhood-trauma seems to play a significant part.

Psychiatrist and psychedelic researcher Stanislav Grof claims a significant part of people diagnosed with schizophrenia is actually experiencing a spiritual awakening and actually need another kind of support.
this is in sync with what I'm discovering.
 
The experience of Oneness or "all is consciousness" or boundary dissolution is useful... but only if you can come and go from that experience as you please. Otherwise you are stuck there in Cloud Cukoo land and you are literally useless.

The experience of Oneness allows you to see that you can choose where to place boundaries which gives you power.

There is no consciousness without perception. There's no perception without difference. There is no difference without boundaries. There are no boundaries without choice. There is no choice without will. There is no will without limitations on the will. A partially free will exploring and rearranging boundaries sets up the dynamic of truth/deception good/evil.
Continuing with this line of thought... I think this should be a chapter in my book, "An Engineer's Guide to Spirituality"... which I will write someday maybe.

One of the Hermetic principles is Polarity, so let's draw an analogy to electricity. (Being an Engineer, it has always bothered me when New Agey types start conflating non-specific metaphysical "energy" with actual electricity, but bear with me for a moment.)

"Electric Potential" or "Voltage" is stored up energy. When a circuit is completed this static potential energy is transformed into kinetic motion of charged particles.

We can think of Desire/Will/Faith as analogous to Voltage or Potential Energy. Like a charged particle, there is always something we want to get to or get away from and the separation or time lag between the desire and the manifestation of that desire creates the "voltage potential". The time lag or resistance allows this potential energy to be released on a timescale that produces useful work and builds interesting structures.

In our present reality, there are mechanisms that typically prevent the will from manifesting instantly. An open circuit or a circuit with significant resistance can allow a voltage to build up across the gap or resistor. A closed circuit with no resistance is a short-circuit and cannot store energy... any stored energy across a short circuit will be released in a catastrophic rush of current. The time lag between Desire and manifestation of that desire enables us to build useful "circuits".

The Bengston Healing method makes more sense with this electrical analogy in mind. Why should cycling through a list of 20 personal desires heal anything? Well maybe think of the Bengston rapid "cycling" to be like literally pedaling on a generator that is creating "voltage" and for whatever reason the positive terminal happens to manifest physically in the left hand (As others have reported, I always experience the tingling in my left hand when attempting this method). I believe in Yogic traditions the navel and perineum are considered to be "terminals" as well.

In a ceremonial magical ritual, there is also a buildup of focused desire or intent which is the rising voltage potential which is released at a certain focal point.

Please keep in mind I'm still using electrical terms as an analogy and not saying electricity actually has anything to do with this although we might view electric potential or gravitational potential as a rudimentary forms of Desire which can complexify into pain/pleasure and then heaven/hell.

Heaven and Hell are like the positive and negative terminals on a power source. In an electric field the direction of force acting on a particle depends on its charge. A positively charged particle is drawn to the negative and a negatively charged particle is drawn towards the positive. We always want what we don't have. So maybe think of a person's Soul as a circuit board attached to an electromagnet which can flip polarity which changes the direction of the push/pull in the Voltage Potential field across the gap between Heaven and Hell. (Maybe Heaven and Hell both start with an "H" to represent a bridge across a gap not unlike a circuit?)

..........................

The Buddhists say the solution to suffering and getting off the wheel of karma is to end desire.

So yes, that is a solution. Be content with what you have. Drain the batteries of any potential energy and keep resistance across your short circuits as low as possible. Wu-Wei. Effortless action. With all potential eliminated you can safely bring the positive and negative terminals together as one node and make them Oneness without letting the magic smoke escape.

And when you do this, the work of creating is done. You have nothing left to do but sit. You can't even turn on your metaphorical flashlight. Probably good to do this from time to time, but if you want to continue creating, you need a power source and that power source is desire.

Power sources are dangerous and can cause serious harm, so use with care... especially since we aren't taught Metaphysical Circuits 101 in college.

....................

All the different types of Magic that can be studied are basically efforts to classify, characterize, and engineer Metaphysical Circuits that are powered by the Voltage Potential of Desire/Will/Faith.

The Human Mind full of desire is a power source. In the movie, The Matrix, humans were a thermal/electrical power source for the machines, but this is a metaphor for the power of desire.

In the biological ecosystem, the sun is the power source and everything that happens down here is a transfer of that energy from one form to another. Lightning as well is a transformation of the sun's energy.

If there is an "astral ecosystem" then there are surely a diverse set of "organisms" and mechanims that are fed by the power source of desire. There may also be the occasional astral lightning strike as well as the egregore - an astral robot complete with metaphysical circuits and a "Willithium" battery pack created to serve you.

...................

So what is good and evil? Good is fulfillment of the Will bringing pleasure - a completed circuit discharging voltage as useful work. Evil is resistance to the Will causing pain - an open circuit (or high resistance) causing voltage.

Why do people engage in SRA or other forms of intentional Evil? My guess based on electric circuits: the combination of binding a person against their will and creating the intense desire to escape is like the inverse of the Bengston Healing method: this generates a strong voltage potential which can somehow be used/consumed/transformed into something useful or pleasurable to the user/abuser or the entity possessing them.
 
Okay, so you're not a strict materialist, I guess. Could you please outline your views on the nature of reality, and what could perhaps be its ultimate nature? I'm interested. Give me something to work with.
I am a spiritual personalist:
A third type of substantialism amounts to the theory that there is a plurality of ultimately irreducible individual souls rather than just a single divine one. There is a personal conscious subject, self or "I" who sees, thinks, feels, wants, etc. The physical body is not part of the real person in this spiritual sense and personal identity of the personal self cannot be affected by bodily death. Also, as the personal self is substantial, even radical inner change (of its existence) will never be able to disintegrate it (in the essential sense) into more than one personal experient.
Rebirth and Personal identity: Is Reincarnation an Intrinsically Impersonal Concept? by Titus Rivas

I don't believe in anthropomorphic gods, but I do think it's probable that some kind of transcendent mind or cosmic intelligence exists. The ultimate nature of reality is probably some kind of pure consciousness or awareness.
 
God's Sons means everybody. The Course uses Christian terminology but transforms the meaning. I'm really into psychical research and I don't see any contradiction between the two. It would take me awhile to explain the Course's metaphysics but I'll just say this one point. As long as we're not fully in Oneness and remember that true nature, we will be separate. That goes for this dimension as well as all the others, even the "heavenly" ones. I would point out too that we don't really know what those NDE's mean. Is that really our loved ones or our projections of them? ACIM is not a religion...it just gives one a framework by which to interpret reality. It seems like trying to take all these "evidences" and come up with some "objective" interpretation is a fool's errand. I've been studying everything I can about these topics for 15 years and I've gotten no closer to understanding reality in the objective sense. Now I have something that helps me get through the day to day.

I 've been studying everything I can about these topics for 22 years and I still think that oneness is a false doctrine and evidence from psychical research negates it. Especially the best cases of reincarnation and mental mediumship. Best veridical NDEs and OBEs also support the view that the NDErs really do meet discarnate spirits during NDEs.
 
I 've been studying everything I can about these topics for 22 years and I still think that oneness is a false doctrine and evidence from psychical research negates it. Especially the best cases of reincarnation and mental mediumship. Best veridical NDEs and OBEs also support the view that the NDErs really do meet discarnate spirits during NDEs.
I never said said I don't believe in psychical research or that there aren't spirits. Oneness to me means there is a shared will...not separate personalities and needs and wants.
 
Oneness to me means simply that communication is possible. For example telepathy, shared near-death experiences, just talking to other people, there are times when minds are able to relate to one another.

I'm aware that much debate in this world, for example in politics or religion, consists of people clinging firmly to entrenched positions, digging their heels in more deeply when differences are identified. The latter to me is not the nature of who we are.

I consider that empathy and shared experience is also a part of this world, and is closer to what I think is beyond this materiality. I'm not talking about the disappearance of individuality, only of the ability of different individuals to exchange ideas.
 
As I read, I see so many getting hung up on "we are all one" or "we aren't 'one' but each are all 'equal'" or "we are all unique" and the problem is so easy to see when "Point of View" is considered.

By looking at each of the three by "seeing" the context from which each statement arises, one can "see" that all three could be true.

I am consciousness ("we are all one")

I am a conscious agent arising from the infinite "sea of consciousness" ("each of us are equal")

I am an individual ("we are all unique")

To me, all three are true and to me, I am that which holds all three Points of View.

This is at the core of the whole "disconnection of communication" that seemed to dominate the discussion between Alex and Grant.
 
As I read, I see so many getting hung up on "we are all one" or "we aren't 'one' but each are all 'equal'" or "we are all unique" and the problem is so easy to see when "Point of View" is considered.

By looking at each of the three by "seeing" the context from which each statement arises, one can "see" that all three could be true.

I am consciousness ("we are all one")

I am a conscious agent arising from the infinite "sea of consciousness" ("each of us are equal")

I am an individual ("we are all unique")

To me, all three are true and to me, I am that which holds all three Points of View.

This is at the core of the whole "disconnection of communication" that seemed to dominate the discussion between Alex and Grant.
I agree with you but I would add that uniqueness can be seen as separate...maybe if we each show love in different ways but not in conflicting ways???
 
The experience of Oneness or "all is consciousness" or boundary dissolution is useful... but only if you can come and go from that experience as you please. Otherwise you are stuck there in Cloud Cukoo land and you are literally useless.

The experience of Oneness allows you to see that you can choose where to place boundaries which gives you power.

There is no consciousness without perception. There's no perception without difference. There is no difference without boundaries. There are no boundaries without choice. There is no choice without will. There is no will without limitations on the will. A partially free will exploring and rearranging boundaries sets up the dynamic of truth/deception good/evil.
Hurmanetar the Lightbringer/Gilgamesh is a mighty superhero...

Nice to meet you,
Kind Regards
Chester
 
Chris7 - I agree with you but I would add that uniqueness can be seen as separate...maybe if we each show love in different ways but not in conflicting ways???

Chester - Let me approach this by asking a question... do you perceive beauty in our world?

Chris7 - Of course!

Beauty... would that which we see as beautiful be as beautiful if all there is is beauty? Consider love a product of the perception of beauty. If love were a commodity (as so many see it) you have what we have here - a bunch of daughters and sons playing hide and seek with love.

Then back to this -

Chris7 - I agree with you but I would add that uniqueness can be seen as separate...

It has to be seen in contrast to that which it appears not to be. The key in ACIM is holding to the knowing that fundamentally, seperation is an illusion (all is one), yet living in the world as your own conscious agent among a plethora of conscious agents where the landscape we navigate is formed from the same sea of consciousness. It is a reversal of one's most influential point of view from seeing everything separate to knowing fundamentally it is not. This is a gift we have "being the Son" (spoken in ACIM terms). I prefer to use my language - Divine Feminine / Divine Masculine / Divine Child (my personal "holy trinity" noting I put the feminine first)... and it's not religion. I only capitalize to express my respect for what each represents.

Why I moved past ACIM is I saw too many get hung on the separation thing. They seemed to want to see everything as one which would lead to boredom and eventually, they really would go insane as they are anchored in a realm of form... no matter how much anyone wishes to convince themselves otherwise. But again, that is the gift we experience being.
 
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