Grant Cameron, No Such Thing As Evil ET? |449|

Thanks for this. Advaita Vedanta has answers to this debate. Listen to almost any video by Swami Sarvapriananda of our New York Vedanta Society. Also read Infinite Paths to Infinite Reality by Vedanta scholar Ayan Maharaj. The answer is basically you are both right, at different levels of reality. In the realm of physical existence and also, as Alex points out, at some levels of non physical existence, there is good/evil, right / wrong and all the other dualities. These are, at that level of existence, real. On the ultimate level of reality, which is pure consciousness, there is no good/ evil: those things only APPEAR in this consciousness. The awareness in which everything occurs is beyond good and evil. it merely observes what is. Thus, on the highest level, Grant is correct. But this is the level where we find ourselves, and in order to experience the higher levels, we must purify ourselves of desire. We have to do good, or we never climb the ladder of spiritual growth. Doing evil doesn’t get us to the realization that liberation brings, but only ties us to desire with stronger bonds.
 
Thanks , however that looks like a religion in which God has been replaced by Holy Spirit!
Since we are actually dreaming the physical world and everything in it, all our many brothers and sisters are part of that dream as well. They are behaving just as we have asked them to. As such, having grievances about them is having a grievance about ourselves.
That seems to imply that I am dreaming everyone else (including you!), but perhaps it means that they are all part of me.

David
 
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Thanks for this. Advaita Vedanta has answers to this debate. Listen to almost any video by Swami Sarvapriananda of our New York Vedanta Society. Also read Infinite Paths to Infinite Reality by Vedanta scholar Ayan Maharaj. The answer is basically you are both right, at different levels of reality. In the realm of physical existence and also, as Alex points out, at some levels of non physical existence, there is good/evil, right / wrong and all the other dualities. These are, at that level of existence, real. On the ultimate level of reality, which is pure consciousness, there is no good/ evil: those things only APPEAR in this consciousness. The awareness in which everything occurs is beyond good and evil. it merely observes what is. Thus, on the highest level, Grant is correct. But this is the level where we find ourselves, and in order to experience the higher levels, we must purify ourselves of desire. We have to do good, or we never climb the ladder of spiritual growth. Doing evil doesn’t get us to the realization that liberation brings, but only ties us to desire with stronger bonds.
Hi Mr. Little - welcome to the forum!

Please remember to use the 'Reply' button on the post you want to reply to (bottom right). This will make it clear to everyone who you are replying to, and alert the person himself that you have replied.

David
 
One of the Hermetic principles is Polarity, so let's draw an analogy to electricity. (Being an Engineer, it has always bothered me when New Agey types start conflating non-specific metaphysical "energy" with actual electricity, but bear with me for a moment.)

"Electric Potential" or "Voltage" is stored up energy. When a circuit is completed this static potential energy is transformed into kinetic motion of charged particles...........................................
Wow - does that analogy extend to other possible components - inductors, capacitors, and transistors?

David
 
Thanks , however that looks like a religion in which God has been replaced by Holy Spirit!

That seems to imply that I am dreaming everyone else (including you!), but perhaps it means that they are all part of me.

David
It's not a religion...I think we need to be careful in how we use that term. It's not a very well understood word.
 
Thanks , however that looks like a religion in which God has been replaced by Holy Spirit!
I have the Course in Miracles book. There are 365 daily exercises for an entire year of practice. Each daily exercise is usually only a few minutes so even if you have a busy life you could find time for it. So its more experiental than a dogmatic religion. They do use christian terminology like "holy spirit" however.
 
I have the Course in Miracles book. There are 365 daily exercises for an entire year of practice. Each daily exercise is usually only a few minutes so even if you have a busy life you could find time for it. So its more experiental than a dogmatic religion. They do use christian terminology like "holy spirit" however.
Even the Christian terminology is more symbolic...the holy spirit represents our memory of heaven, Sonship is all we see etc.
 
Even the Christian terminology is more symbolic...the holy spirit represents our memory of heaven, Sonship is all we see etc.
Definition of metaphor - a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.

So it is OK to use a metaphor here and yet "the universe is an illusion" is to be interpreted literally.

Do you see what is happening, Chris7? There has to be an "authority" to tell "others" what is what within the framework of ACIM. And when someone says - "go back to the book, The Course in Miracle," one could ask, which addition? Just the original? So you have a book (with iterations) and you have "authorities" telling you how to interpret the "words" in the book and you are trying to tell us this is not a religion?

I'm sorry - it is another religion. And look at our world and all that religions have done for it.

Perhaps it is religion that clouds what otherwise would be direct apprehension of what is (as I came to experience ACIM to be).
 
Even the Christian terminology is more symbolic...the holy spirit represents our memory of heaven, Sonship is all we see etc.
The holy ghost came into the Christian dogma to eliminate the metaphor of the divine feminine which formed a more ancient, respected archetypal trinity of divine feminine, divine masculine, divine child.

An example is Isis, Osiris and Horus

Imagine a world where each of us led with one action - an exploration of the nature and science of being. That we each, individually, took responsibility for our own journey through this exploration.

You wouldn't need a book and you wouldn't need an authority to "teach" it. There would be no course. Just the journey.
 
Definition of metaphor - a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.

So it is OK to use a metaphor here and yet "the universe is an illusion" is to be interpreted literally.

Do you see what is happening, Chris7? There has to be an "authority" to tell "others" what is what within the framework of ACIM. And when someone says - "go back to the book, The Course in Miracle," one could ask, which addition? Just the original? So you have a book (with iterations) and you have "authorities" telling you how to interpret the "words" in the book and you are trying to tell us this is not a religion?

I'm sorry - it is another religion. And look at our world and all that religions have done for it.

Perhaps it is religion that clouds what otherwise would be direct apprehension of what is (as I came to experience ACIM to be).
I was a Religion major in college and every one of my professors told us that there is no agreed upon definition of that term and I agree. That's my point. I also think Religion gets a bad name. Even if it is, im ok with it if it resonates with me.
 
I was a Religion major in college and every one of my professors told us that there is no agreed upon definition of that term and I agree. That's my point. I also think Religion gets a bad name. Even if it is, im ok with it if it resonates with me.
Definition of metaphor - a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.

So it is OK to use a metaphor here and yet "the universe is an illusion" is to be interpreted literally.

Do you see what is happening, Chris7? There has to be an "authority" to tell "others" what is what within the framework of ACIM. And when someone says - "go back to the book, The Course in Miracle," one could ask, which addition? Just the original? So you have a book (with iterations) and you have "authorities" telling you how to interpret the "words" in the book and you are trying to tell us this is not a religion?

I'm sorry - it is another religion. And look at our world and all that religions have done for it.

Perhaps it is religion that clouds what otherwise would be direct apprehension of what is (as I came to experience ACIM to be).
I don't see a problem here...so the universe is a metaphor? The world is a projection, according to the Course and if it's interpreted differently, nothing would make sense. I've never heard that interpretation from anybody else...maybe that's why you moved on from it??
 
I was a Religion major in college and every one of my professors told us that there is no agreed upon definition of that term and I agree. That's my point. I also think Religion gets a bad name. Even if it is, im ok with it if it resonates with me.
IMO - religion serves only one good purpose - to escape from it... the best way being - going through it then out of it never to return as it has served its purpose.
 
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...so the universe is a metaphor?
Well, it can serve to be one too... but that is not what I said which was, '"the universe is an illusion" is a metaphor.' There is a difference. And to see it as a projection is from a point of view that, paradoxically, cannot exist yet philosophically does exist.

I "get" that point of view. I "get" the point of view "the universe is an illusion." I also enjoy when I experience/explore the available zones that reside within my own definition of "the universe" from the point of view of an individualized conscious agent. And sometimes I don't enjoy my explorations.

The key is understanding the core components of this exploration - individuation and that which appears "outside" and "separate" with "boundaries" while knowing the very real possibility all is connected. It is actually a quite fascinating construct, one which I assume each explorer has the option "to exit permanently" at any time they so desire (which I metaphorically call "soul suicide.")
 
L

lonevoice

Not the right forum but I am rushing: someone said Aquino was not all that nefarious: take a look at minute 42:
 
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