Grant Cameron, No Such Thing As Evil ET? |449|

My thoughts exactly! If Jurgen Ziewe is right, then there are vast variabilities up there. Mediums never seem to concentrate on what the people they contact are actually doing now. I wonder if this is an inherent limitation, or if @Alex could organise a little experiment using one of the mediums that Julie Beischel validated?

David
It comes up a few times in the Leslie Flint archives. Here's an example http://adcguides.com/alicegreen2.htm
And this is a more comprehensive assessment, though not complete, from the same source - http://adcguides.com/theafterlife.htm


What other mediums do people rely upon? I know of Edgar Cayce, and Leslie Flint are commonly spoken of.
 
Thanks, Alex. I do not understand why there was no response to my video about the big differences between NDEs and OBEs. More generally, why are we even refusing to keep these experiences in their silos.
I understood the distinction... when in the etheric double "body" one is still attached to the physical body and thus one can report back (if one gets back into the physical body) the details of things like, what was in the room with the physical body, exact, precise details, whereas there's no time spent in the etheric body when moving into the OBE state which takes one straight into the astral body. I have had 5 OBEs - all between mid 2012 and late 2013 and I still recall the details of the experience as if they just happened moments ago as they had such a big impact on me. And, come to think of it, never was there any type of "looking down" on my body, much less was the reality I entered, anything like the room I was in. I conclude I went straight from "lucid dream state" straight into the OBE.

The first one and the last one were more mind blowing than the other three. The first was a mini-OBE but because it was the first and because what happened, it was awesome. What happened was that I knew I was leaving my body. And I was indeed in a room, but it was not the one within which my body was located, nor was I in the lying down position in the OBE as my body was. And what I will always remember is that as soon as it started happening, I knew it was an OBE (and had wanted to experience this for years and never really believed I could). And as I moved from my body out of the left side of my body, I soon approached a wall. And as I started to go through the wall, at that instant I had the thought, "what if I can't find my body? - as if that might mean I would die... and the fear welled up and at that isntant, i felt myself literally slam back into my body. But I was elated as it was my first OBE.

I was prepared for another (and hoped I could have one) and sure enough, a month or so later I did, and I went much further.

But i have to share about the last one as it was bizarre. I was in a room sitting at a round table with three other "people." The room was a long rectangle shaped room and this table was located in the lower right area of the room if you were looking from above. I was facing sort of the direction of the upper right corner. And that was when I noticed out of the left corner of my eye that there was a "person" standing with has back against the wall, hands up and legs out forming an X, as if he was restrained up against the wall. Suddenly, I was in the body of that person! And I then looked to my left and could see the round table and there at that round table sat 4 cartoon character figures that were animated. At the moment i noticed, them, I started to try and walk towards them... and that is when I got the "vibration sensation" you hear about for some folks who experience OBEs (and thus why I characterize the event as an OBE). I came out of it as I was trying to walk towards these four characters and had struggled to make headway almost as if the vibration seemed related to my struggle.

Very interesting how Jurgen Ziewe describes the upper astral and (as he called it) the more spiritual planes.

It all says to me that we are all conscious agents. It is awesome how he describes experience in the mental plane.

I apologize for not replying sooner as it's these details that Alex wanted Grant to consider and that perhaps a conscious agent can chose to be evil and find themselves anchored in "the lower astral" (as some suggest is the home of these darker agents) and though, yes... at the level of unity consciousness, it may not seem to matter, when one is anchored in their physical body and another "anchored into the physical" being who has given way to the influence of an evil conscious agent that may have taken up residence in this lower astral,,, that one may suffer horrifically and it belies logic to imagine that's all illusion, especially to the target of that evil.
 
I understood the distinction... when in the etheric double "body" one is still attached to the physical body and thus one can report back (if one gets back into the physical body) the details of things like, what was in the room with the physical body, exact, precise details, whereas there's no time spent in the etheric body when moving into the OBE state which takes one straight into the astral body. I have had 5 OBEs - all between mid 2012 and late 2013 and I still recall the details of the experience as if they just happened moments ago as they had such a big impact on me. And, come to think of it, never was there any type of "looking down" on my body, much less was the reality I entered, anything like the room I was in. I conclude I went straight from "lucid dream state" straight into the OBE.

The first one and the last one were more mind blowing than the other three. The first was a mini-OBE but because it was the first and because what happened, it was awesome. What happened was that I knew I was leaving my body. And I was indeed in a room, but it was not the one within which my body was located, nor was I in the lying down position in the OBE as my body was. And what I will always remember is that as soon as it started happening, I knew it was an OBE (and had wanted to experience this for years and never really believed I could). And as I moved from my body out of the left side of my body, I soon approached a wall. And as I started to go through the wall, at that instant I had the thought, "what if I can't find my body? - as if that might mean I would die... and the fear welled up and at that isntant, i felt myself literally slam back into my body. But I was elated as it was my first OBE.

I was prepared for another (and hoped I could have one) and sure enough, a month or so later I did, and I went much further.

But i have to share about the last one as it was bizarre. I was in a room sitting at a round table with three other "people." The room was a long rectangle shaped room and this table was located in the lower right area of the room if you were looking from above. I was facing sort of the direction of the upper right corner. And that was when I noticed out of the left corner of my eye that there was a "person" standing with has back against the wall, hands up and legs out forming an X, as if he was restrained up against the wall. Suddenly, I was in the body of that person! And I then looked to my left and could see the round table and there at that round table sat 4 cartoon character figures that were animated. At the moment i noticed, them, I started to try and walk towards them... and that is when I got the "vibration sensation" you hear about for some folks who experience OBEs (and thus why I characterize the event as an OBE). I came out of it as I was trying to walk towards these four characters and had struggled to make headway almost as if the vibration seemed related to my struggle.

Very interesting how Jurgen Ziewe describes the upper astral and (as he called it) the more spiritual planes.

It all says to me that we are all conscious agents. It is awesome how he describes experience in the mental plane.

I apologize for not replying sooner as it's these details that Alex wanted Grant to consider and that perhaps a conscious agent can chose to be evil and find themselves anchored in "the lower astral" (as some suggest is the home of these darker agents) and though, yes... at the level of unity consciousness, it may not seem to matter, when one is anchored in their physical body and another "anchored into the physical" being who has given way to the influence of an evil conscious agent that may have taken up residence in this lower astral,,, that one may suffer horrifically and it belies logic to imagine that's all illusion, especially to the target of that evil.
It's interesting because some of us don't experience anything like this. I think we have to discover these truths ourselves. I love talking about this stuff but bc it's not in my awareness, it doesn't ring true for me. I choose to experience Oneness and not these realms you discuss...not bc I don't think it's true but I have nothing to add bc it's not my experience.
 
It's interesting because some of us don't experience anything like this. I think we have to discover these truths ourselves. I love talking about this stuff but bc it's not in my awareness, it doesn't ring true for me. I choose to experience Oneness and not these realms you discuss...not bc I don't think it's true but I have nothing to add bc it's not my experience.
In my experience... many, many do not have these experiences.

What I have been able to get away from is in drawing conclusions about "extra ordinary consciousness experiences" such that the regions of consciousness beyond ordinary consciousness are "true" in a universal sense. They may be, but I do not assume they are.

Imagine that consciousness has an unlimited availability of paradigms... and that extra ordinary consciousness exploration may have a dependency on what an individual conscious agent (at all levels of that agency's being) has affinity to and/or what their more dense zones of experience (none more dense in my experience than this shared sub-reality / 5 sense world sub-reality) and the culture associated with those sub-zones shares. via that conscious agents prior experience, reflects extra ordinary conscious realities when they "travel" outside of, beyond the shared sub-reality.

This has always been (to me) such an obvious flaw in the thinking of most humans. They automatically assume a universality to extra ordinary consciousness realms. IMO that is a major reason why religions gain so much power. This flaw explains to me how ACIM could take hold like it did (and still does) - it has all the ingredients as it draws from non-dualistic teachings, uses the Christian paradigm which is so embedded in western culture, is in English, and has drops and hints of "new age" teachings all mixed up into, what I call, a new religion.

For me, religion of any kind holds us back. I find it useless.

I found I did not need to try and fit things within a box of anyone's religion to have that incredible life experience, to [metaphor here] walk with "that," to have a magical life (when I get out of the way of myself) and... most importantly of all, to be appreciated by my loved ones, friends, those I pass on the street and those I may never meet... where I sense I am giving at least as much as I receive, though I would never make that claim or need to.

It's simple: Explore the nature and science of being and be open to whatever experiences come your way.
 
In my experience... many, many do not have these experiences.

What I have been able to get away from is in drawing conclusions about "extra ordinary consciousness experiences" such that the regions of consciousness beyond ordinary consciousness are "true" in a universal sense. They may be, but I do not assume they are.

Imagine that consciousness has an unlimited availability of paradigms... and that extra ordinary consciousness exploration may have a dependency on what an individual conscious agent (at all levels of that agency's being) has affinity to and/or what their more dense zones of experience (none more dense in my experience than this shared sub-reality / 5 sense world sub-reality) and the culture associated with those sub-zones shares. via that conscious agents prior experience, reflects extra ordinary conscious realities when they "travel" outside of, beyond the shared sub-reality.

This has always been (to me) such an obvious flaw in the thinking of most humans. They automatically assume a universality to extra ordinary consciousness realms. IMO that is a major reason why religions gain so much power. This flaw explains to me how ACIM could take hold like it did (and still does) - it has all the ingredients as it draws from non-dualistic teachings, uses the Christian paradigm which is so embedded in western culture, is in English, and has drops and hints of "new age" teachings all mixed up into, what I call, a new religion.

For me, religion of any kind holds us back. I find it useless.

I found I did not need to try and fit things within a box of anyone's religion to have that incredible life experience, to [metaphor here] walk with "that," to have a magical life (when I get out of the way of myself) and... most importantly of all, to be appreciated by my loved ones, friends, those I pass on the street and those I may never meet... where I sense I am giving at least as much as I receive, though I would never make that claim or need to.

It's simple: Explore the nature and science of being and be open to whatever experiences come your way.
I don't see how ACIM fits this mold...it doesn't speak about extra-ordinary experiences except that we're moving toward Oneness...that doesn't make what you experienced unreal or wrong.
 

Alex

Administrator
Thanks for this. Advaita Vedanta has answers to this debate. Listen to almost any video by Swami Sarvapriananda of our New York Vedanta Society. Also read Infinite Paths to Infinite Reality by Vedanta scholar Ayan Maharaj. The answer is basically you are both right, at different levels of reality. In the realm of physical existence and also, as Alex points out, at some levels of non physical existence, there is good/evil, right / wrong and all the other dualities. These are, at that level of existence, real. On the ultimate level of reality, which is pure consciousness, there is no good/ evil: those things only APPEAR in this consciousness. The awareness in which everything occurs is beyond good and evil. it merely observes what is. Thus, on the highest level, Grant is correct. But this is the level where we find ourselves, and in order to experience the higher levels, we must purify ourselves of desire. We have to do good, or we never climb the ladder of spiritual growth. Doing evil doesn’t get us to the realization that liberation brings, but only ties us to desire with stronger bonds.
I was so with you... nodding my head right along... and then: "in order to experience the higher levels, we must purify ourselves of desire"

dogma doorway alert :) pls prove with at leave 5 peer-reviewed studies from different labs :)
 

Alex

Administrator
Not the right forum but I am rushing: someone said Aquino was not all that nefarious: take a look at minute 42:
I couldn't find what you were referring to at min 42. but I do think Aquino was a worst-of-the-worst creep:
https://exposinginfragard.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-case-against-michael-aquino-satanic.html




For those who don’t know, Michael Aquino was a Psychological Warfare Specialist in the US Army from 1968 until 1990, when he was involuntarily discharged as a result of investigations into his involvement in the ritual sexual abuse of children at the Presidio Day Care Center in San Francisco. Throughout this same time, he has also been a devout satanist and self-confessed neo-Nazi. He joined Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan in 1969, staying until 1975 when he left to start his own Temple of Set, which has been in operation ever since.

Please note here that both psyops and satanism involve using many levels of deception and coercion to manipulate the perceptions of others for ulterior motives, so these are skills that Aquino is very familiar with and very comfortable in using. He is also an expert in propaganda and skilled in techniques for disseminating misinformation/disinformation, and using misdirection, confusion tactics, isolation techniques, and revisionism. Therefore, he will certainly use these skills to defend himself against the truth of his actions.

Michael Aquino explains that his name keeps coming up in pedophile-ring cases because he’s the victim of a conspiracy (a ‘black bag job’, as he calls it). He bases this on the fact that he’s a satanist and so people just automatically hate him because of it. Unfortunately for him, making such a bad choice in lifestyle and philosophy doesn’t excuse him from anything, although in his particular case it certainly does lend weight to the allegations against him and even invites them, so he shouldn’t really complain about it. He tends to keep his perceptions of all this bad publicity focused strictly on the Presidio child abuse case in which he was a central figure during the 1980s, since that’s the only one he’s ever had to legally defend himself against (so far). Even in this one isolated case, he only dares to focus on it as far as his own limited version of the facts go, and he totally avoids acknowledging the larger body of evidence that implicates him personally. Similarly, he totally overlooks the longer history of events he’s been implicated in by various sources who are far removed from one another and who couldn’t possibly be engaged in any sort of conspiracy against him.

Whatever the case, I’m not going to attempt to detail all of the evidence against Michael Aquino here, since there’s far too much of it for this short article. I merely want to put his claim of conspiracy into proper perspective, in order to show how absurd it really is.
 

Alex

Administrator
Thanks, Alex. I do not understand why there was no response to my video about the big differences between NDEs and OBEs. More generally, why are we even refusing to keep these experiences in their silos.
pls repost... I have a pretty big queue of vids to watch, but I wanta make sure I don't miss it.
 
I couldn't find what you were referring to at min 42. but I do think Aquino was a worst-of-the-worst creep:
https://exposinginfragard.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-case-against-michael-aquino-satanic.html




For those who don’t know, Michael Aquino was a Psychological Warfare Specialist in the US Army from 1968 until 1990, when he was involuntarily discharged as a result of investigations into his involvement in the ritual sexual abuse of children at the Presidio Day Care Center in San Francisco. Throughout this same time, he has also been a devout satanist and self-confessed neo-Nazi. He joined Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan in 1969, staying until 1975 when he left to start his own Temple of Set, which has been in operation ever since.

Please note here that both psyops and satanism involve using many levels of deception and coercion to manipulate the perceptions of others for ulterior motives, so these are skills that Aquino is very familiar with and very comfortable in using. He is also an expert in propaganda and skilled in techniques for disseminating misinformation/disinformation, and using misdirection, confusion tactics, isolation techniques, and revisionism. Therefore, he will certainly use these skills to defend himself against the truth of his actions.

Michael Aquino explains that his name keeps coming up in pedophile-ring cases because he’s the victim of a conspiracy (a ‘black bag job’, as he calls it). He bases this on the fact that he’s a satanist and so people just automatically hate him because of it. Unfortunately for him, making such a bad choice in lifestyle and philosophy doesn’t excuse him from anything, although in his particular case it certainly does lend weight to the allegations against him and even invites them, so he shouldn’t really complain about it. He tends to keep his perceptions of all this bad publicity focused strictly on the Presidio child abuse case in which he was a central figure during the 1980s, since that’s the only one he’s ever had to legally defend himself against (so far). Even in this one isolated case, he only dares to focus on it as far as his own limited version of the facts go, and he totally avoids acknowledging the larger body of evidence that implicates him personally. Similarly, he totally overlooks the longer history of events he’s been implicated in by various sources who are far removed from one another and who couldn’t possibly be engaged in any sort of conspiracy against him.

Whatever the case, I’m not going to attempt to detail all of the evidence against Michael Aquino here, since there’s far too much of it for this short article. I merely want to put his claim of conspiracy into proper perspective, in order to show how absurd it really is.
I wonder if you should interview him on Skeptiko as part of your investigation into evil.

This is the first I have heard of the guy.

David
 
Wow - does that analogy extend to other possible components - inductors, capacitors, and transistors?

David
I suppose so, but I don't have it worked out very well.

"Inductance" would be sort of like Sheldrake's principle of like attracts like in the morphogenetic field. Any substance with a matrix of molecular bonds subject to quantum uncertainty could be thought of has having a certain amount of "inductance" and "capacitance". So the brain itself has inductance and capacitance. Perhaps our memory recall function is an example of inductance. We've heard stories of objects being "charged" with healing power or "possessed" by evil spirits.

In electric circuits, a current in a coil can induce a current in an adjacent coil. The coupling is dependent on distance. In the analogy, the coupling would be dependent upon similarity among a variety of semantic dimensions, not merely distance.

Thinking of desire/will as voltage also makes it easier to understand transmutation of desire and ascetic practices of fasting or celibacy or other self-imposed harshness. Just as we might think of the Bengston method as cycling/pedaling on a generator, we could think of ascetic practices as capturing ambient body heat and turning that into useful work.

Now to consider the conspiratorial angle... if your goal is to tap the population as a resource for power and control, you need to think of it as if you're playing with electricity. If you need to lockout tagout the equipment (eliminating all voltage making the equipment safe to handle), you then you provide the people with instant gratification thereby preventing dangerous buildup of "voltage". You supply them with the images in media that you want them to "cycle". And in order to do useful work, you create desire and channel it. Just as electricity will take the path of least resistance, you need to make sure your channel is truly the path of least resistance and that you are not part of that circuit.

Quarantining everyone for a few months is a way of building up voltage. Promoting George Floyd "protests" is channeling and discharging that built up energy in a "safe" direction (at least safely away from the controllers and their equipment).
 
Much of the core experience is very similar, that the afterlife is more akin to a world constructed by thought, that individuals can communicate beyond language barriers in what seems to be a mind to mind connection, that people tend to do the same sorts of things they did in real life into the afterlife. I think what could account for the dissimilarities (soul group, shower rooms, lesson plans and so on) is that Jurgen, Monroe etc are looking into this world from the top down from the perspective of an explorer while Newton is contained to relying on the accounts of people who are A) Ultimately coming for a therapy session, to solve some kind of problem and B) Claim to be part of a school group which astral explorers may no longer have any need of and instead are 'self-teachers'.

It's like asking school children to explain the intricacies of their country vs asking a seasoned international (interdimensional in this case) traveler of their opinion. It's possibly just two very different perspectives, and I think this fits within the overarching and vast expanse of possibilities accounted for by OBE travelers.

It's a shame its so hard to find good discussion forums for this specific topic, because I would love to see a list of every claim made by each reporter so we could cross examine them and try to draw conclusions. Right now in my opinion the hardest thing to say about the afterlife is whether it has ANY limitations at all, or if all reported phenomenon could be equally as valid.
I agree. I mentioned it before but a good place to have some of these discussions is on the “afterlife topics and metaphysics” page on Facebook.
 
I wonder if you should interview him on Skeptiko as part of your investigation into evil.

This is the first I have heard of the guy.

David
Here's one you have heard of, John Alexander. Do you or Alex have any idea how he wormed his way into the book put out by the Free project? It upsets me that black operatives have long infiltrated the good guys: for example they were welcomed at Esalen with open arms. But to actually get into a good guy publication? HOW?? (I can't afford to buy the book).
 

Alex

Administrator
Here's one you have heard of, John Alexander. Do you or Alex have any idea how he wormed his way into the book put out by the Free project? It upsets me that black operatives have long infiltrated the good guys: for example they were welcomed at Esalen with open arms. But to actually get into a good guy publication? HOW?? (I can't afford to buy the book).
I'm not into the colonel either :)
Dr. John Alexander, Warrior Monk - Reality Denied ... - Skeptiko
I think I may hold the "thank you for your service" praise :)
 
Recently discovered the content creator Max Derrat who has a bunch of well done videos on Jungian psychology and analyzing movies and games like Silent Hill. Here's one where he talks about Evil relating to the Marvel villain Thanos (I haven't seen the movie, but this is still good):

And here's his set of videos on Carl Jung's Aion:

 
Just listed to this interview this morning. I am totally down with expanded realms and consciousness - which is a noun also by the way. But if there is no paradigm of good and evil there is no reason to come back as a perpetrator of atrocities to another human being to understand the 'separateness' of evil acts. That would be info one could cull from experiences elsewhere gleaned by the ONE consciousness the first time an 'atrocity from one sentient being on another' happened - atrocities being perpetrated repeatedly speaks to an evil if it takes multiple times, in multiple ways for consciousness to understand it. In order for consciousness (singular) to have experiences it must by default have separateness - now we have division, duality, polarity, right. wrong, good, evil and usually there is a hierarchy when ranking multiple like events. just my take on this interview.

Why come back at all if we are all ONE - once the experience has been experienced why does it need to be repeated?

If you are pushing for back to oneness then separateness is the evil which means its all broken - which is kind of the Gnostic theme then.

I am open to more viewpoints and conversation. This interview left me with a lot of questions about consciousness but I will say I KNOW emphatically that no ONE really knows anything for sure.

Thanks Alex
 
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