Greg Moffitt, the Placebo Effect is Consciousness |477|

#21
It leads to 400,000 deaths and 25,000,000 infections.
I find it difficult to believe you don't know the numbers you quote are fraudulent.

If you really are so ignorant and uncaring you haven't bothered to educate yourself on this fraud, that's on you.

> How he continues to go on-air and promote David Icke for a Nobel Prize is beyond my comprehension.

Now you are straight-up lying, and have thus destroyed any credibility you had.

I am a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu martial arts teacher. In the late 1990's I publicly challenged a prominent Instructor of George Dillman's No-Touch Chi Knock-out style of martial arts in Dallas, Texas to a trial by combat, no-holds-barred public grudge match to disprove the absurd nonsense he was earning exorbitant profits peddling to desperate, bullied kids.

Since you are in the same Spiritual Business as David Icke, I suspect your grudge against him is the result of something similar.
 
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#22
Dan,

The issue is not the technical one of whether the virus exists [David
David, that is the only issue here. The other questions are important and deserve consideration, but I am not focused on them when I challenge Alex for kissing David Icke's ass when he said, "It's not a real virus." That's the only thing I am focused on. I have counted on Alex to challenge bullshit and bullshitters. With this David Icke, he bought into it. On this show, he continued to give Icke a pass and that's why I raise it in these comments.
 
#23
With this David Icke, he bought into it. On this show, he continued to give Icke a pass and that's why I raise it in these comments.
You obviously don't listen to the Skeptico Podcast. Alex has excoriated Icke in every recent episode for Icke's "No Virus" statement.

If you are going to criticize Alex on his own forum, at least provide him the courtesy of listening to his Podcast.
 
#24
I find it difficult to believe you don't know the numbers you quote are fraudulent.

If you really are so ignorant and uncaring you haven't bothered to educate yourself on this fraud, that's on you.

> How he continues to go on-air and promote David Icke for a Nobel Prize is beyond my comprehension.

Now you are straight-up lying, and have thus destroyed any credibility you had.

I am a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu martial arts teacher. In the late 1990's I publicly challenged a prominent Instructor of George Dillman's No-Touch Chi Knock-out style of martial arts in Dallas, Texas to a trial by combat, no-holds-barred public grudge match to disprove the absurd nonsense he was earning exorbitant profits peddling to desperate, bullied kids.

Since you are in the same Spiritual Business as David Icke, I suspect your grudge against him is the result of something similar.
Haha, man Charlie, I whole heartedly agree with you! I have listened to A LOT of so called "truther" podcasts. Alex's is head and shoulders above the other for interesting content backed by intellectual rigor. I think that people are quick to judge David Icke because of the "Lizard People" thing. Alex never backed off of mentioning that, even to Icke himself. Also, Alex did a great job questioning him about the "non isolated virus" Andrew Kaufman stuff.

Also, it is awesome that you challenged George Dillman's No-Touch Chi Knock-out shit! I am a huge, long time fan of mixed martial arts fan! Kudos, brother!
 
#25
...it is awesome that you challenged George Dillman's No-Touch Chi Knock-out shit!
Thank you. I wouldn't have bothered except the Dillman guy began attacking me personally on the big forums of the time; Budoseek, the Underground, TXMMA, etc.

It got so bad he called my website domain registrar, had his students crank-call my business phone number all day, and even e-mailed me to say that he was sending a Bandidos Motorcycle Club assassination team to shoot me at my school.

That was particularly funny because one of the top-ranking Bandidos M.C. Nomads was a student of mine.

I shamefully confess, if he had accepted my public challenge, I would have destroyed his knees, ribs, and rotator cuffs. I would not have messed with his spine or cervicals, but I would have hurt him bad. I was that angry.
 
#26
Thank you. I wouldn't have bothered except the Dillman guy began attacking me personally on the big forums of the time; Budoseek, the Underground, TXMMA, etc.

It got so bad he called my website domain registrar, had his students crank-call my business phone number all day, and even e-mailed me to say that he was sending a Bandidos Motorcycle Club assassination team to shoot me at my school.

That was particularly funny because one of the top-ranking Bandidos M.C. Nomads was a student of mine.

I shamefully confess, if he had accepted my public challenge, I would have destroyed his knees, ribs, and rotator cuffs. I would not have messed with his spine or cervicals, but I would have hurt him bad. I was that angry.
Of course, brother! My theory is and always has been: no man is worth more than his work. It is always refreshing to hear from you on this forum. If your school was near me, I would be honored to join!

This discussion reminds me of all things great in human achievement. I was going to say "lines of work," but this pertains to all things in life. I have seen, very often, people lie about what they do at work. This quickly sickens me. I have seen people "pencil whip" all their activity. I think this is akin to the moron that pretends they can knock somebody out with a "no touch" system.

Likewise, I see weakness often in people when it comes to difficult, physical exertion. Today, people are scared to pick up a 24 pack of bottled water at the grocery store. Much respect, my friend. I look forward to your other thoughts.
 

Alex

Administrator
#27
You obviously don't listen to the Skeptico Podcast. Alex has excoriated Icke in every recent episode for Icke's "No Virus" statement.

If you are going to criticize Alex on his own forum, at least provide him the courtesy of listening to his Podcast.
thanks charlie :)

the other thing that I think is interesting about this (and I'd love to get the opinion of others) is how the plandemic has shifted this conversation about"wrongness"... and done it in a subtle way.

I mean, ok david icke is wrong about " there is no virus," but he's probably right about the plandemic... and he certainly right about 9/11... and he's super right about the god program... and he's got some real insights on consciousness... so oh my god he isn't perfect.

as I said in the show, I think he has a better than hall of fame batting average. more importantly compare him to someone like neil deGrasse tyson who regularly talks about shit he completely doesn't know and understand like consciousness, after death survival and UFOs. and yet the idea of banning neil deGrasse tyson would never be taken seriously.
 
#28
thanks charlie :)

the other thing that I think is interesting about this (and I'd love to get the opinion of others) is how the plandemic has shifted this conversation about"wrongness"... and done it in a subtle way.

I mean, ok david icke is wrong about " there is no virus," but he's probably right about the plandemic... and he certainly right about 9/11... and he's super right about the god program... and he's got some real insights on consciousness... so oh my god he isn't perfect.

as I said in the show, I think he has a better than hall of fame batting average. more importantly compare him to someone like neil deGrasse tyson who regularly talks about shit he completely doesn't know and understand like consciousness, after death survival and UFOs. and yet the idea of banning neil deGrasse tyson would never be taken seriously.
Well, he also famed for his views on lizards!
My feeling is that David Icke isn't really expressing novel ideas when he talks about consciousness, survival after death, or UFO's - maybe his role has been to pass them on to a wider audience.

I think the discussion about wrongness needs to shift - even on the question as to whether the virus exists. I mean, there are zillions of different types of viruses and if one of them has indeed been properly identified and called COVID-19 (something I still have reservations on), but it isn't the deadly creature it is made out to be, is it totally unreasonable to say that a deadly virus called COVID-19 does not exist?

I suppose that brings us on to the question, what is a deadly virus? The point is that many types of virus are dangerous to people who are already very seriously ill - particularly those on chemotherapy. I think this simple fact has been used to exaggerate the dangers of COVID fantastically. Remember, the vast majority of "deaths from COVID" are in exactly those groups of people.

David
 
#29
My feeling is that David Icke isn't really expressing novel ideas ...maybe his role has been to pass them on to a wider audience.
I agree. There's nothing wrong with earning a living promoting these ideas, as long as the Presenter provides attribution regarding where he acquired the ideas.

Icke is good about providing attribution. Constant plagiarism as engaged in by the likes of Joe Atwill drives me up the wall.

Doing primary research is expensive and time-consuming hard work. Few do it these days. Those who do should be acknowledged and rewarded. Grifters who steal the work others should be punished.


> "...is it totally unreasonable to say that a deadly virus called COVID-19 does not exist?"

The problem with asserting "no virus" is that doing so is a waste of everyone's time and energy.

As proof, I offer 100,000 or so words in the Dr. Tom Cowan thread wasted over hair-splitting about what the word "isolation" means.

Imagine if the thousands of man-hours invested in creating that thread were instead deployed to make Normies aware of the easily provable fact that the Covid numbers are fraudulent.

Much, MUCH less work for the exact same benefit.
 
#30
The problem with asserting "no virus" is that doing so is a waste of everyone's time and energy.

As proof, I offer 100,000 or so words in the Dr. Tom Cowan thread wasted over hair-splitting about what the word "isolation" means.
Well it may be wasted, though I think that distinction was, and maybe still is, important. I have written about it before, so I won't bother trying again.
Imagine if the thousands of man-hours invested in creating that thread were instead deployed to make Normies aware of the easily provable fact that the Covid numbers are fraudulent.
Well, plenty of people have gone on about all aspects of this fraud. Almost everyone seems to understand that COVID just does the 'job' that flu, or a range of other viruses have done - kill off those who are lingering very close to death - accelerating the inevitable. Pretty much everyone also knows that other abuses are taking place. For example, I was chatting to the garage mechanic (garages are deemed essential services) and he told me of a man whose father went into hospital and died of something else, but the doctor talked him into letting the hospital write COVID on his death certificate because the government gives them more money for COVID patients!

People are also aware that the tests throw up false positives, and they are very cautious about getting vaccinated. My feeling is that something has gone completely wrong with politics - the vast majority of people know this is a scam!

David
 
#31
- the vast majority of people know this is a scam!
I argue they do not.

All my elderly Aunts and Uncles are completely unaware of any scam. My elderly Aunt drove 100 miles to get the vaccine last week. One elderly Uncle was giddy with joy yesterday on the phone with my Dad about the getting the vaccine.

My Wife can't even talk to people at her office about Covid. The college-educated professional women there become enraged at the slightest hint of disagreement with the Mainstream Narrative.

In Austin, Texas a few weeks ago I saw near 100% mask compliance, even while driving alone in their cars.

Howard Hughes of The Unexplained podcast is completely on-board. He often brags about "doing his part" by never leaving his London apartment except to purchase groceries.
 

Alex

Administrator
#32
I argue they do not.

All my elderly Aunts and Uncles are completely unaware of any scam. My elderly Aunt drove 100 miles to get the vaccine last week. One elderly Uncle was giddy with joy yesterday on the phone with my Dad about the getting the vaccine.

My Wife can't even talk to people at her office about Covid. The college-educated professional women there become enraged at the slightest hint of disagreement with the Mainstream Narrative.

In Austin, Texas a few weeks ago I saw near 100% mask compliance, even while driving alone in their cars.

Howard Hughes of The Unexplained podcast is completely on-board. He often brags about "doing his part" by never leaving his London apartment except to purchase groceries.
agree.

this kind of gets to the situation we find ourselves in. what's a democracy supposed to do with people who can so easily be manipulated with propaganda?
 
#33
I argue they do not.

All my elderly Aunts and Uncles are completely unaware of any scam. My elderly Aunt drove 100 miles to get the vaccine last week. One elderly Uncle was giddy with joy yesterday on the phone with my Dad about the getting the vaccine.

My Wife can't even talk to people at her office about Covid. The college-educated professional women there become enraged at the slightest hint of disagreement with the Mainstream Narrative.

In Austin, Texas a few weeks ago I saw near 100% mask compliance, even while driving alone in their cars.

Howard Hughes of The Unexplained podcast is completely on-board. He often brags about "doing his part" by never leaving his London apartment except to purchase groceries.
agree.

this kind of gets to the situation we find ourselves in. what's a democracy supposed to do with people who can so easily be manipulated with propaganda?
In my experience, 'ordinary' people are more aware of this scam that intellectuals. I suppose people with manual jobs, just have to get on with it, and lose their fear. The very elderly should realise that they will die soon anyway, and COVID might be nicer than many other possibilities - but not everyone thinks that way.

Likewise, I think 'ordinary' people were more aware of the global warming scam than intellectual types. My theory is that being educated - particularly in the sciences - blunts a certain innate sense of whether something is or is not honest.

Don't forget that almost everyone wears a mask in places where this is compulsory (even I do now, I'm ashamed to say) just to avoid trouble, but some rip them off immediately they aren't legally required. The fines for not wearing a mask in a shop are absurd - £200 for a first offence.

It is not compulsory for the old to stay at home - just advised - and I see plenty in the streets even now.

None of that lessens my frustration that so many more intellectual people are fooled by what is going on.

David
 
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#34
thanks charlie :)

the other thing that I think is interesting about this (and I'd love to get the opinion of others) is how the plandemic has shifted this conversation about"wrongness"... and done it in a subtle way.

I mean, ok david icke is wrong about " there is no virus," but he's probably right about the plandemic... and he certainly right about 9/11... and he's super right about the god program... and he's got some real insights on consciousness... so oh my god he isn't perfect.

as I said in the show, I think he has a better than hall of fame batting average. more importantly compare him to someone like neil deGrasse tyson who regularly talks about shit he completely doesn't know and understand like consciousness, after death survival and UFOs. and yet the idea of banning neil deGrasse tyson would never be taken seriously.
I agree with Alex on this one. Certainly, people talk about David Icke like is a fucking nut case. The stigma is so bad that most won't even listen to his interviews. Granted, I was cursed with a bit of that prejudice until I listened to him on London Real. No, I never wrote him off, but I had that knee jerk reaction that most have, "Oh, that is the lizard guy." I don't know what he is right or wrong about, but he seems to be a genuine guy.
 
#35
In my experience, 'ordinary' people are more aware of this scam that intellectuals.
I agree. I noticed the same thing.

This phenomena of the "Educated Fool" is complex and difficult to understand.

I used to be a substantial financial supporter of Richard Grove's Peace Revolution. Richard promoted the work of John Taylor Gatto (and cared for Gatto while he died).

Gatto pretty much proves that our modern Western education system is purposely designed to destroy Critical Thinking skills, kill the ancient Trivium Method, and eliminate any possible resistance to tyranny....

https://tragedyandhope.com/category/uhae/

Gatto's books are required reading.

I always enjoy asking Liberal Arts university graduates to list the 7 Liberating Arts . It amuses me when people with a Bachelor of Liberal Arts don't even know the 7 Arts exist, much less what they are.
 
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#36
what's a democracy supposed to do with people who can so easily be manipulated with propaganda?
Alex, I don't know. This question has frustrated me for decades.

I don't want to believe what Eddie Bernays said in his 1923 master-work Propaganda, that being Cattle is the natural condition of Man.

I shouldn't keep fighting against this conclusion, but I will.

Page 18 of Propaganda: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.275553/page/n17/mode/2up

"This invisible, intertwining structure of groupings and associations is the mechanism by which democracy has organized its group mind and simplified its mass thinking. To deplore the existence of such a mechanism is to ask for a society such as never was and never will be. To admit that it exists, but expect that it shall not be used, is unreasonable."
 

Alex

Administrator
#37
Alex, I don't know. This question has frustrated me for decades.

I don't want to believe what Eddie Bernays said in his 1923 master-work Propaganda, that being Cattle is the natural condition of Man.

I shouldn't keep fighting against this conclusion, but I will.

Page 18 of Propaganda: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.275553/page/n17/mode/2up

"This invisible, intertwining structure of groupings and associations is the mechanism by which democracy has organized its group mind and simplified its mass thinking. To deplore the existence of such a mechanism is to ask for a society such as never was and never will be. To admit that it exists, but expect that it shall not be used, is unreasonable."
great quote! thx for sharing. very left hand path :)
 
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