Grimerica - Alex Tsakiris - Why Evil Matters

#21
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dkwts? Nothing. Don't have to say nothin. Just agree with me LOL :) Congress is the one that submits a bill to the senate, that then (if voted on) goes onto the President to make into law. SO... we need " Congress should start a bill to protect people from a tracker (of any kind) you can't be "Chipped" in order to get a job OR buy/sell or trade. One state has already passed that. We need that nationwide."
 
#22
K9 - China and some other countries are behind it, ultimately. The plan has always been for China and other developing countries to be the manufacturing centers of the world by 2050. Trump and his supporters stand squarely opposed. They - the old/traditional America -must be destroyed to allow that to happen. Everything you are seeing, from riots to mass immigration is to further that plan and is to demoralize, demonize, overwhelm, and materially wreck the remaining vestiges of traditional America. US politicians are in on it because they are getting paid to be and they think they are insulated. The CIA, FBI, etc (but not the DIA to the same extent) are involved too because the politicians direct them to be and have staffed them with people friendly to the mission and because the CIA has always been about American interests = business (which now equates to global business). They are all trying to defeat the US without a military attack or, really, even firing a shot. It's working. The zombies that are surrendering to the "woke" bob and that constitute the "woke community" are the fruits of MK Ultra and associated programs. Extended consciousness was not something that could be harnessed, but mind control using media, schools/education, Hollywood/TV and all of the new digital media is very practical. Smart phones, social media, etc are MK Ultra's wet dream come true.
***
It sure looks that way Eric! I just can't believe it. BUT, on our side... sometimes the best made plans.... yeah that. Gee, that poor dam in China... it might break. There seems to be a crop failure too... floods. I don't think they're having a good time of it. They might get some blowback from Hong Kong.

Some people just don't want to be slaves. They may have WANTED these "plans" but... not like everyone will just sit around & say okay. Hollywood shut their traps once they started turning on them. We'll see. I understand some interesting things will come to light in the next few weeks.

Why I was just listening to a recording of Biden w/that Ukraine guy. Not good. Not good at all and THEN he brought up obama. Looking real nasty. There are laws against this kind of thing. But, we'll see.
 
#23
What? Evidence for this?
I believe there are some open source data available re; China, Africa and other becoming the manufacturing centers of the world by 2050.

Tell you what, go look into what you can find and then come back and let me know and I will will add on. Otherwise, you will just try to guide this into an opinion slinging slug fest.

You must keeping mind that the USA is not the world. In fact, much of the world is envious and vengeful towards to the USA, yet those emerging markets represent a perceived huge opportunity for some of our larger and/or more influencial business sectors. I will also say that Bill Clinton represented the first "shot across the bow" of the USA with NAFTA and China deals. Remember (if you're old enough) that Americans were going to all be tech workers and traditional manufacturing would go to developing nations. That was clearly stated. Long term investments were made and now they must be seen through. Of course, the economics are only level one, albeit where most people even on the inside are stuck. Deeper levels are always the usual drive to have one's genetics rule the world (e.g. Han versus barbarians), but your typical CIA or business exec doesn't get that.

If you're doubting the part about the internet and social media, etc., then I'd say you're blind, but there's open source on that too. I can tell you that your anxiety levels are being being beta tested and recorded in scientific experiments performed by those who control everything from twitter to gaming applications. You are absolutely being manipulated 24/7 if you're anything close to a normal citizen. I have worked with the developers of these methods. They have been live for a while now and they are ubiquitous. You are both a product and a rat in a maze to these people. Most of what you think you know comes from them and not you. Again, don't believe me. Go see what you can find out there.

Now, go do your homework and, with that sincerity being demonstrated, I will respond with some extra info and direction. Otherwise, believe whatever you want to. Your beliefs about all of this come from the manipulators anyhow. So, if you don't follow-up, I will simply see you as another sad success story for the people behind the curtain It's right there. The magic of this that they can talk openly about about it and you will never even know it and, even if you did see it, you will be made to believe that your own senses and intellect are unreliable. Good luck meat robot.
 
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#24
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It sure looks that way Eric! I just can't believe it. BUT, on our side... sometimes the best made plans.... yeah that. Gee, that poor dam in China... it might break. There seems to be a crop failure too... floods. I don't think they're having a good time of it. They might get some blowback from Hong Kong.

Some people just don't want to be slaves. They may have WANTED these "plans" but... not like everyone will just sit around & say okay. Hollywood shut their traps once they started turning on them. We'll see. I understand some interesting things will come to light in the next few weeks.

Why I was just listening to a recording of Biden w/that Ukraine guy. Not good. Not good at all and THEN he brought up obama. Looking real nasty. There are laws against this kind of thing. But, we'll see.
Happy thoughts, but nah...too much invested in the 2050 plan. It's massive money and the world against maybe 40% of the US populace and the US govt against that 40%. It's going to have to be civil war first (which the 40% will win rather quickly, but with massive bloodshed), then a new form of govt (see Napoleon) and then the new America takes on the damn Han and their allies.
 
#25
That was an interesting listen, thanks. But I still don't get the 'fuck Christians' thing. I mean, if it's because they have a sort of set interpretive model for understanding the world, okay, but then you might as well also say fuck the occultists, those advaita assholes, Buddhists, panpsychists, spiritualists, Jungians, etc.
 
#26
That was an interesting listen, thanks. But I still don't get the 'fuck Christians' thing. I mean, if it's because they have a sort of set interpretive model for understanding the world, okay, but then you might as well also say fuck the occultists, those advaita assholes, Buddhists, panpsychists, spiritualists, Jungians, etc.
Yea I agree. I also do think that we need to pay respects where respect is due. It’s become fashionable to talk about the horrors of Christianity, in the same way it’s become fashionable to talk about the horrors of the white man, while completely glossing over the monumental achievements and benefits brought forth by both. I would actually argue, in both cases I just mentioned, that more good has been brought forth by both than cons.

Either way, I do think Christianity is dying a slow death (much slower in the America’s than in Europe) and that despite its contributions, we could argue that it’s no longer needed. But it still gives hope and inspiration to many. Not that I don’t acknowledge the MAJOR drawbacks to this belief and some of its dogmas. But I think we need to be honest about it’s pros. But I would still encourage and push towards a more secular and evidence driven form of “spirituality.” We should understand at this point that we don’t need certain dogmas or beliefs to be eternal or to be whole.
 
#27
Yea I agree. I also do think that we need to pay respects where respect is due. It’s become fashionable to talk about the horrors of Christianity, in the same way it’s become fashionable to talk about the horrors of the white man, while completely glossing over the monumental achievements and benefits brought forth by both. I would actually argue, in both cases I just mentioned, that more good has been brought forth by both than cons.

Either way, I do think Christianity is dying a slow death (much slower in the America’s than in Europe) and that despite its contributions, we could argue that it’s no longer needed. But it still gives hope and inspiration to many. Not that I don’t acknowledge the MAJOR drawbacks to this belief and some of its dogmas. But I think we need to be honest about it’s pros. But I would still encourage and push towards a more secular and evidence driven form of “spirituality.” We should understand at this point that we don’t need certain dogmas or beliefs to be eternal or to be whole.
Is it no longer needed? Isn't the god shaped hole being filled by Marxism/Wokeness?
 
#28
But I would still encourage and push towards a more secular and evidence driven form of “spirituality.” We should understand at this point that we don’t need certain dogmas or beliefs to be eternal or to be whole.
Aren't you just projecting/prescribing another worldview on others here? I'm not sure what you'd call it, but it seems like just another "ism". You cite "evidence driven" here but what evidence and does said evidence speak definitively?
 

Alex

Administrator
#30
That was an interesting listen, thanks. But I still don't get the 'fuck Christians' thing. I mean, if it's because they have a sort of set interpretive model for understanding the world, okay, but then you might as well also say fuck the occultists, those advaita assholes, Buddhists, panpsychists, spiritualists, Jungians, etc.
I think it's more like -- Christians pls give up yr "evil" cultish ways... and then pls build in safeguards to keep them out.

how about a new kind of Christianity starting with some ridiculously obvious reforms:
https://media.thegospelcoalition.or...files/2010/02/Christianity-and-McLarenism.pdf

1. The narrative question: What is the overarching story line of the Bible? For McLaren, the familiar story
line of creation, fall, redemption, consummation (with heaven and hell as a result) is a grotesque
Greco-Roman distortion
of the biblical narrative. God the creator, liberator, reconciler is the real story
line.
2. The authority question: How should the Bible be understood? Not as a constitution, argues McLaren,
with laws and rules and arguments about who’s right and wrong. Rather, we go to the Bible as a
community library, where internal consistency is not presumed and we learn by conversation.
3. The God question: Is God violent? Believers used to think so, but we ought to grow in maturity from
fearing a violent tribal God to partnering with a Christlike God.
5. The gospel question: What is the gospel? It is not a message about how to get saved. The gospel is the
announcement of a “new kingdom, a new way of life, and a new way of peace that carried good news to
all people of every religion” (139).
9. The pluralism question: How should followers of Jesus relate to people of other religions? “Christianity has
a nauseating, infuriating, depressing record when it comes to encountering people of other religions

(208). There is not us/them, insider/outsider. Jesus accepted everyone and so should we.
10. The what-do-we-do-now question: How can we translate our quest into action? The human quest for
God has known many stages. Those in the more mature stages of the quest should gently invite others
to grow into fuller maturity, but without being divisive.
 

Alex

Administrator
#31
I think it's more like -- Christians pls give up yr "evil" cultish ways... and then pls build in safeguards to keep them out.

how about a new kind of Christianity starting with some ridiculously obvious reforms:
https://media.thegospelcoalition.or...files/2010/02/Christianity-and-McLarenism.pdf

1. The narrative question: What is the overarching story line of the Bible? For McLaren, the familiar story
line of creation, fall, redemption, consummation (with heaven and hell as a result) is a grotesque
Greco-Roman distortion
of the biblical narrative. God the creator, liberator, reconciler is the real story
line.
2. The authority question: How should the Bible be understood? Not as a constitution, argues McLaren,
with laws and rules and arguments about who’s right and wrong. Rather, we go to the Bible as a
community library, where internal consistency is not presumed and we learn by conversation.
3. The God question: Is God violent? Believers used to think so, but we ought to grow in maturity from
fearing a violent tribal God to partnering with a Christlike God.
5. The gospel question: What is the gospel? It is not a message about how to get saved. The gospel is the
announcement of a “new kingdom, a new way of life, and a new way of peace that carried good news to
all people of every religion” (139).
9. The pluralism question: How should followers of Jesus relate to people of other religions? “Christianity has
a nauseating, infuriating, depressing record when it comes to encountering people of other religions

(208). There is not us/them, insider/outsider. Jesus accepted everyone and so should we.
10. The what-do-we-do-now question: How can we translate our quest into action? The human quest for
God has known many stages. Those in the more mature stages of the quest should gently invite others
to grow into fuller maturity, but without being divisive.
of course these would destroy the cult and therefore will never happen. God doesn't like crowds
 
#32
1. The narrative question: What is the overarching story line of the Bible? For McLaren, the familiar story
line of creation, fall, redemption, consummation (with heaven and hell as a result) is a grotesque
Greco-Roman distortion
of the biblical narrative. God the creator, liberator, reconciler is the real story
line.
2. The authority question: How should the Bible be understood? Not as a constitution, argues McLaren,
with laws and rules and arguments about who’s right and wrong. Rather, we go to the Bible as a
community library, where internal consistency is not presumed and we learn by conversation.
3. The God question: Is God violent? Believers used to think so, but we ought to grow in maturity from
fearing a violent tribal God to partnering with a Christlike God.
5. The gospel question: What is the gospel? It is not a message about how to get saved. The gospel is the
announcement of a “new kingdom, a new way of life, and a new way of peace that carried good news to
all people of every religion” (139).
9. The pluralism question: How should followers of Jesus relate to people of other religions? “Christianity has
a nauseating, infuriating, depressing record when it comes to encountering people of other religions

(208). There is not us/them, insider/outsider. Jesus accepted everyone and so should we.
10. The what-do-we-do-now question: How can we translate our quest into action? The human quest for
God has known many stages. Those in the more mature stages of the quest should gently invite others
to grow into fuller maturity, but without being divisive.
Um, that is pretty much a word for word description of liberal Christianity. I mean literally. Nothing new.
 
#33
Aren't you just projecting/prescribing another worldview on others here? I'm not sure what you'd call it, but it seems like just another "ism". You cite "evidence driven" here but what evidence and does said evidence speak definitively?
The evidence I cite is compiled from the experience and reports of NDErs from all cultures, channeled info, OBErs, mediums, studies of reincarnation, quantum physics and maybe even the psi research and consciousness studies. There is such a thing of an objective study of these things, though it isn’t talked about on this site really. But there are brilliant people who compile all of this stuff and try to make sense of it. And it all marries together suprisingly well. Generally.

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t tons of disagreements. But there are some basic tenets we can take from this data. I could maybe list 10 of them. This is not even remotely representative of all reality and (in the long run) we ultimately do not really understand what’s going on at the base of it all. It seems we can conclude the following from all of this data

1) Consciousness seems to be fundemental in some way, if not completely fundamental

2) We are eternal consciousness

3) After death, there’s probably an infinite number of states of potential being, some physical, some non physical, some even come back to earth. Many end up in what seems to be an earth like environment. The spiritualists if the 1800s refered to this as “the summerland.” More recently researchers and astral travelers refer to this as “astral earth” or simple as one of the astral planes. If you spend some time on Reddit’s astral travel and OBE forums, you’ll see what I mean. This place SEEMS to be populated by many deceased people. This comes up in NDEs as well. And some good channeled information and mediums also mention these earth like realms.

4) Family members, friends, and even pets seemed cosmically tied through loving bonds, and seem to remain (much of the time) linked together after physical death on earth

5) There’s no such thing as being put at a disadvantage after death due to religious beliefs beliefs. Meaning you’re not going to hell for believing a certain thing. What matters and what may determine afterlife state, is your state of mind and how you treated others. This is largely due to how much more thought responsive some of these other environments seem.

6) Love seems to be a cosmically powerful force

7) Were all connected. What we do to another, we do to ourselves, what we do to ourselves, we do to each other.

8) people continue on after death as themselves and their personality remains

9) we can sometimes communicate with these people through consciousness, with varying degrees of success and accuracy

10) We are multidimensional, and might be doing several things simultaneously that we are not aware of


This is off the top of my head.

I could be largely or entirely wrong about some of these. But, frankly that’s what keeps popping up over and over again through these studies. I’m talking about taking all of the studies and viewing them as a whole. If things come up which start to contradict this, I’ll gladly and enthusiastically change my views. That’s a little different than planting ones flag and stating “I believe that Noah pushed 10,000 animals onto a boat and saved them as the world flooded, because somebody wrote it down 5,000 years ago and that’s what my parents and parts of my culture believe and I don’t care
What you say”

If one sets aside world views and biases, and reads hundreds of NDEs, hundreds of experiences of OBErs, (guys like Ziewe, Buhlman, Bob Monroe, and Yogananda, to take an easterner), reincarnation research, dig into what a lot of good mediums (many of them tested and accredited by researchers like Julie Beischel) tell us, and see how this all marries in with consciousness studies and how often interlinks and confirming information comes up between the studies, a blurry picture emerges. Blurry but usually strikingly consistent.

There are several good books by different authors who attempt to compile some of this information and see how it all marries together. I generally know them by their fruit. What I like about them is that they don’t claim to be spiritual gurus or authorities. Just researchers. And they are generally happy to listen to anybody they can and compile their experiences and see what inter links and commonalities they share with all the other experiences and information. The widely parroted idea that “all thoughts and ideas Concerning this topic carry equal weight and we’ll lump religions in with this and that they all constitute an ism and cannot be distinguished from each other” is nonsensical. That doesn’t mean that my view is correct. But, that could be all wrong in some way we don’t understand and could be amended in the future. I doubt you’ll see religious leaders ready to amend and change their religious dogmas as new information keeps rolling in.

Some sources I’d recommend looking into include Dr Craig Hogan, the lawyer Victor Zammit, OBErs Jurgen Ziewe, William Buhlman, Ian Lawton. They’re imperfect and they do have their biases. But their attempts to be objective in their rearsearch is admirable.

Apologies for poor grammar and spelling. I wrote this on the go. I also apologize because I feel like I’ve mentioned all of this like 10 times the past few months on this site and I want to stop doing it. Maybe I’ll make a thread on it. But I did want to respond here and explain myself .
 
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Alex

Administrator
#34
The evidence I cite is compiled from the experience and reports of NDErs from all cultures, channeled info, OBErs, mediums, studies of reincarnation, quantum physics and maybe even the psi research and consciousness studies. There is such a thing of an objective study of these things, though it isn’t talked about on this site really. But there are brilliant people who compile all of this stuff and try to make sense of it. And it all marries together suprisingly well. Generally.

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t tons of disagreements. But there are some basic tenets we can take from this data. I could maybe list 10 of them. This is not even remotely representative of all reality and (in the long run) we ultimately do not really understand what’s going on at the base of it all. It seems we can conclude the following from all of this data

1) Consciousness seems to be fundemental in some way, if not completely fundamental

2) We are eternal consciousness

3) After death, there’s probably an infinite number of states of potential being, some physical, some non physical, some even come back to earth. Many end up in what seems to be an earth like environment. The spiritualists if the 1800s refered to this as “the summerland.” More recently researchers and astral travelers refer to this as “astral earth” or simple as one of the astral planes. If you spend some time on Reddit’s astral travel and OBE forums, you’ll see what I mean. This place SEEMS to be populated by many deceased people. This comes up in NDEs as well. And some good channeled information and mediums also mention these earth like realms.

4) Family members, friends, and even pets seemed cosmically tied through loving bonds, and seem to remain (much of the time) linked together after physical death on earth

5) There’s no such thing as being put at a disadvantage after death due to religious beliefs beliefs. Meaning you’re not going to hell for believing a certain thing. What matters and what may determine afterlife state, is your state of mind and how you treated others. This is largely due to how much more thought responsive some of these other environments seem.

6) Love seems to be a cosmically powerful force

7) Were all connected. What we do to another, we do to ourselves, what we do to ourselves, we do to each other.

8) people continue on after death as themselves and their personality remains

9) we can sometimes communicate with these people through consciousness, with varying degrees of success and accuracy

10) We are multidimensional, and might be doing several things simultaneously that we are not aware of


This is off the top of my head.

I could be largely or entirely wrong about some of these. But, frankly that’s what keeps popping up over and over again through these studies. I’m talking about taking all of the studies and viewing them as a whole. If things come up which start to contradict this, I’ll gladly and enthusiastically change my views. That’s a little different than planting ones flag and stating “I believe that Noah pushed 10,000 animals onto a boat and saved them as the world flooded, because somebody wrote it down 5,000 years ago and that’s what my parents and parts of my culture believe and I don’t care
What you say”

If one sets aside world views and biases, and reads hundreds of NDEs, hundreds of experiences of OBErs, (guys like Ziewe, Buhlman, Bob Monroe, and Yogananda, to take an easterner), reincarnation research, dig into what a lot of good mediums (many of them tested and accredited by researchers like Julie Beischel) tell us, and see how this all marries in with consciousness studies and how often interlinks and confirming information comes up between the studies, a blurry picture emerges. Blurry but usually strikingly consistent.

There are several good books by different authors who attempt to compile some of this information and see how it all marries together. I generally know them by their fruit. What I like about them is that they don’t claim to be spiritual gurus or authorities. Just researchers. And they are generally happy to listen to anybody they can and compile their experiences and see what inter links and commonalities they share with all the other experiences and information. The widely parroted idea that “all thoughts and ideas Concerning this topic carry equal weight and we’ll lump religions in with this and that they all constitute an ism and cannot be distinguished from each other” is nonsensical. That doesn’t mean that my view is correct. But, that could be all wrong in some way we don’t understand and could be amended in the future. I doubt you’ll see religious leaders ready to amend and change their religious dogmas as new information keeps rolling in.

Some sources I’d recommend looking into include Dr Craig Hogan, the lawyer Victor Zammit, OBErs Jurgen Ziewe, William Buhlman, Ian Lawton. They’re imperfect and they do have their biases. But their attempts to be objective in their rearsearch is admirable.

Apologies for poor grammar and spelling. I wrote this on the go. I also apologize because I feel like I’ve mentioned all of this like 10 times the past few months on this site and I want to stop doing it. Maybe I’ll make a thread on it. But I did want to respond here and explain myself .
fantastic! I totally get that you feel like you might have posted this 10 times before but this was the first time I came across it in such a complete and concise way. thanks so much for this post.
 

Alex

Administrator
#35
Um, that is pretty much a word for word description of liberal Christianity. I mean literally. Nothing new.
ok... Well maybe. BTW I'd really like to further this dialogue with the progressive christian community. do you know of any podcast or youTube channels that might be open to a " why evil matters" interview? and would you be willing to reach out to them on my behalf?
 
#36
Happy thoughts, but nah...too much invested in the 2050 plan. It's massive money and the world against maybe 40% of the US populace and the US govt against that 40%. It's going to have to be civil war first (which the 40% will win rather quickly, but with massive bloodshed), then a new form of govt (see Napoleon) and then the new America takes on the damn Han and their allies.
***
But they never counted on anyone coming upon their 2050 "plan". I never said it was going to be easy, but I don't think we'll have to go to civil war. They can't beat or scare enough into that plan. First, they actually counted on the cancel culture to join in... LOL you can't get those idiots to agree on the time of day. Look at CHOP/CHAZ (smiling as I type) those idiots... THAT garden HA HAH HA HA... they think THAT is going to win anything? They're too sleepy to even take a bath.

I'll give you they have a lot of the media, but I think at this point they are talking to empty chairs.
 

Attachments

#37
The evidence I cite is compiled from the experience and reports of NDErs from all cultures, channeled info, OBErs, mediums, studies of reincarnation, quantum physics and maybe even the psi research and consciousness studies. There is such a thing of an objective study of these things, though it isn’t talked about on this site really. But there are brilliant people who compile all of this stuff and try to make sense of it. And it all marries together suprisingly well. Generally.

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t tons of disagreements. But there are some basic tenets we can take from this data. I could maybe list 10 of them. This is not even remotely representative of all reality and (in the long run) we ultimately do not really understand what’s going on at the base of it all. It seems we can conclude the following from all of this data

1) Consciousness seems to be fundemental in some way, if not completely fundamental

2) We are eternal consciousness

3) After death, there’s probably an infinite number of states of potential being, some physical, some non physical, some even come back to earth. Many end up in what seems to be an earth like environment. The spiritualists if the 1800s refered to this as “the summerland.” More recently researchers and astral travelers refer to this as “astral earth” or simple as one of the astral planes. If you spend some time on Reddit’s astral travel and OBE forums, you’ll see what I mean. This place SEEMS to be populated by many deceased people. This comes up in NDEs as well. And some good channeled information and mediums also mention these earth like realms.

4) Family members, friends, and even pets seemed cosmically tied through loving bonds, and seem to remain (much of the time) linked together after physical death on earth

5) There’s no such thing as being put at a disadvantage after death due to religious beliefs beliefs. Meaning you’re not going to hell for believing a certain thing. What matters and what may determine afterlife state, is your state of mind and how you treated others. This is largely due to how much more thought responsive some of these other environments seem.

6) Love seems to be a cosmically powerful force

7) Were all connected. What we do to another, we do to ourselves, what we do to ourselves, we do to each other.

8) people continue on after death as themselves and their personality remains

9) we can sometimes communicate with these people through consciousness, with varying degrees of success and accuracy

10) We are multidimensional, and might be doing several things simultaneously that we are not aware of


This is off the top of my head.

I could be largely or entirely wrong about some of these. But, frankly that’s what keeps popping up over and over again through these studies. I’m talking about taking all of the studies and viewing them as a whole. If things come up which start to contradict this, I’ll gladly and enthusiastically change my views. That’s a little different than planting ones flag and stating “I believe that Noah pushed 10,000 animals onto a boat and saved them as the world flooded, because somebody wrote it down 5,000 years ago and that’s what my parents and parts of my culture believe and I don’t care
What you say”

If one sets aside world views and biases, and reads hundreds of NDEs, hundreds of experiences of OBErs, (guys like Ziewe, Buhlman, Bob Monroe, and Yogananda, to take an easterner), reincarnation research, dig into what a lot of good mediums (many of them tested and accredited by researchers like Julie Beischel) tell us, and see how this all marries in with consciousness studies and how often interlinks and confirming information comes up between the studies, a blurry picture emerges. Blurry but usually strikingly consistent.

There are several good books by different authors who attempt to compile some of this information and see how it all marries together. I generally know them by their fruit. What I like about them is that they don’t claim to be spiritual gurus or authorities. Just researchers. And they are generally happy to listen to anybody they can and compile their experiences and see what inter links and commonalities they share with all the other experiences and information. The widely parroted idea that “all thoughts and ideas Concerning this topic carry equal weight and we’ll lump religions in with this and that they all constitute an ism and cannot be distinguished from each other” is nonsensical. That doesn’t mean that my view is correct. But, that could be all wrong in some way we don’t understand and could be amended in the future. I doubt you’ll see religious leaders ready to amend and change their religious dogmas as new information keeps rolling in.

Some sources I’d recommend looking into include Dr Craig Hogan, the lawyer Victor Zammit, OBErs Jurgen Ziewe, William Buhlman, Ian Lawton. They’re imperfect and they do have their biases. But their attempts to be objective in their rearsearch is admirable.

Apologies for poor grammar and spelling. I wrote this on the go. I also apologize because I feel like I’ve mentioned all of this like 10 times the past few months on this site and I want to stop doing it. Maybe I’ll make a thread on it. But I did want to respond here and explain myself .
****
Love it. Don't worry about repeating anything, this is the first I read this all in this form. I think I can add, the Bible, now my understanding is... it was written like parables are, they are stories that give you the basic lessons & that is how they wrote back in the day. Noah was not to be taken literally (even though the Baptist do). It's so much better to understand it represents a basic great idea.

Now to where I don't want to agree (but I don't know) I don't want to like evil people. I don't want them to go on. I want them dead. My older sister told me when I was little God threw them into the sun (and I'm going with THAT). Ugly child molesters, idiot terrorists, killers and weirdos... I just want them gone. I don't think any reincarnations would help that/them.

I might be able to understand that little girl in Africa that was caught (I think she was like 12) she was luring little boys into the jungle then hitting them on the head w/a rock then selling their meat at the market. ugh. wow, talk about desperate. I wonder if at 10 or 12 any of us in that situation would go for survival at any cost? Or would we jump off the mountain? I hope I'd jump.
 
#38
ok... Well maybe. BTW I'd really like to further this dialogue with the progressive christian community. do you know of any podcast or youTube channels that might be open to a " why evil matters" interview? and would you be willing to reach out to them on my behalf?
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Maybe we can get the guy from "Free Chaple"? I'll send him a note for you Alex w/your email. BUT don't blame me if he actually writes to you! I pass there & it's a giant place. I think Pres. Trump watched one of his services (maybe Easter?). I thought that was strange (right here in MY town :)

I think they have those TV giant evangelists there. I sometimes see lines of cars, we're a small town actually, so a lot are from out of town. Lines of cars, police have to be called in to handle the traffic. I'll send them a note now. https://www.freechapel.org/gainesville
 
#39
The evidence I cite is compiled from the experience and reports of NDErs from all cultures, channeled info, OBErs, mediums, studies of reincarnation, quantum physics and maybe even the psi research and consciousness studies. There is such a thing of an objective study of these things, though it isn’t talked about on this site really. But there are brilliant people who compile all of this stuff and try to make sense of it. And it all marries together suprisingly well. Generally.

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t tons of disagreements. But there are some basic tenets we can take from this data. I could maybe list 10 of them. This is not even remotely representative of all reality and (in the long run) we ultimately do not really understand what’s going on at the base of it all. It seems we can conclude the following from all of this data

1) Consciousness seems to be fundemental in some way, if not completely fundamental

2) We are eternal consciousness

3) After death, there’s probably an infinite number of states of potential being, some physical, some non physical, some even come back to earth. Many end up in what seems to be an earth like environment. The spiritualists if the 1800s refered to this as “the summerland.” More recently researchers and astral travelers refer to this as “astral earth” or simple as one of the astral planes. If you spend some time on Reddit’s astral travel and OBE forums, you’ll see what I mean. This place SEEMS to be populated by many deceased people. This comes up in NDEs as well. And some good channeled information and mediums also mention these earth like realms.

4) Family members, friends, and even pets seemed cosmically tied through loving bonds, and seem to remain (much of the time) linked together after physical death on earth

5) There’s no such thing as being put at a disadvantage after death due to religious beliefs beliefs. Meaning you’re not going to hell for believing a certain thing. What matters and what may determine afterlife state, is your state of mind and how you treated others. This is largely due to how much more thought responsive some of these other environments seem.

6) Love seems to be a cosmically powerful force

7) Were all connected. What we do to another, we do to ourselves, what we do to ourselves, we do to each other.

8) people continue on after death as themselves and their personality remains

9) we can sometimes communicate with these people through consciousness, with varying degrees of success and accuracy

10) We are multidimensional, and might be doing several things simultaneously that we are not aware of


This is off the top of my head.

I could be largely or entirely wrong about some of these. But, frankly that’s what keeps popping up over and over again through these studies. I’m talking about taking all of the studies and viewing them as a whole. If things come up which start to contradict this, I’ll gladly and enthusiastically change my views. That’s a little different than planting ones flag and stating “I believe that Noah pushed 10,000 animals onto a boat and saved them as the world flooded, because somebody wrote it down 5,000 years ago and that’s what my parents and parts of my culture believe and I don’t care
What you say”

If one sets aside world views and biases, and reads hundreds of NDEs, hundreds of experiences of OBErs, (guys like Ziewe, Buhlman, Bob Monroe, and Yogananda, to take an easterner), reincarnation research, dig into what a lot of good mediums (many of them tested and accredited by researchers like Julie Beischel) tell us, and see how this all marries in with consciousness studies and how often interlinks and confirming information comes up between the studies, a blurry picture emerges. Blurry but usually strikingly consistent.

There are several good books by different authors who attempt to compile some of this information and see how it all marries together. I generally know them by their fruit. What I like about them is that they don’t claim to be spiritual gurus or authorities. Just researchers. And they are generally happy to listen to anybody they can and compile their experiences and see what inter links and commonalities they share with all the other experiences and information. The widely parroted idea that “all thoughts and ideas Concerning this topic carry equal weight and we’ll lump religions in with this and that they all constitute an ism and cannot be distinguished from each other” is nonsensical. That doesn’t mean that my view is correct. But, that could be all wrong in some way we don’t understand and could be amended in the future. I doubt you’ll see religious leaders ready to amend and change their religious dogmas as new information keeps rolling in.

Some sources I’d recommend looking into include Dr Craig Hogan, the lawyer Victor Zammit, OBErs Jurgen Ziewe, William Buhlman, Ian Lawton. They’re imperfect and they do have their biases. But their attempts to be objective in their rearsearch is admirable.

Apologies for poor grammar and spelling. I wrote this on the go. I also apologize because I feel like I’ve mentioned all of this like 10 times the past few months on this site and I want to stop doing it. Maybe I’ll make a thread on it. But I did want to respond here and explain myself .
Appreciate the thoughtful response.

Much of your list of 10 resonates with me personally and are things that I tend to believe. However, it still seems to share characteristics of faith traditions. Love, for example, is something you'll hear Christians state as a core message of Jesus. Lots of faith traditions believe their ancestors, family, and sure even pets remain connected to them post their deaths.

But all this "stuff" still requires a thinking person to make a leap of faith. I think its dangerous for proponents here to somehow see themselves as the only rigorous intellectual minds on the planet. Lots of very thoughtful people don't see the list you provided as established or proven concepts. There's evidence most certainly, but it sure doesn't seem settled.

That was really my only point. After all, even you offered the caveat:

I could be largely or entirely wrong about some of these.
 
#40
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But they never counted on anyone coming upon their 2050 "plan". I never said it was going to be easy, but I don't think we'll have to go to civil war. They can't beat or scare enough into that plan. First, they actually counted on the cancel culture to join in... LOL you can't get those idiots to agree on the time of day. Look at CHOP/CHAZ (smiling as I type) those idiots... THAT garden HA HAH HA HA... they think THAT is going to win anything? They're too sleepy to even take a bath.

I'll give you they have a lot of the media, but I think at this point they are talking to empty chairs.
They don't care if a few - or even more than a few - come across the plan. It doesn't matter because they're just gonna do it. Like I said, Bill Clinton told us all that manufacturing was leaving as well as energy sector jobs and that was OK because everyone would learn to code. I thought that was the stupidest, craziest and most dangerous thing I ever heard, but many people were like, "Huh. wow. cool." or, "Whatever. Stock market is doing great. Must be a good idea, duh".

The problem most people have is that they don't accept that what they see happening is actually happening until it's too late if what they see is too bizarre or frightening - that includes not believing that what some people say they are going to do is actually exactly what they are going to do. For the people selling the thing, it's much easier in the long run if the dupes actually agreed to the plan because then cognitive dissonance sets in and that causes the dupes' acceptance of the plan to remain more firmly imbedded + excuses for the people screwing them over. It's a known technique (like I said, MK Ultra wasn't all about extended consciousness. It was fundementally about manipulating and controlling minds).

All of that cancel culture crap, etc is about demoralizing. This is another MK Ultra type thing; how to break prisoners. Again, established black arts science. Text book stuff, my friend. Antifa, cancel bots, etc don't need to highly organized and focused. They are sowing chaos. Actually, the lack of predictability and the sheer insanity of what they are doing + the Soros funded goons in local govt that allow it - nay, aid and abet it - cause people to feel anxiety and hopelessness. The perfect emotional state to render people ready to surrender to someone who offers stability and calm and who has the power to provide it; i.e. someone aligned with the lunatics that can tell them to knock it off.

I think you are a woman based on some things you've said (sorry if I got that wrong). Think about abused woman syndrome - the woman that sticks with the abuser, thinks she deserves it and makes excuses for the abuser. It's a lot like that in many regards....you racist sinner citizen of a country founded on slavery and theft from Native Americans and beneficiary of a racist unfair distribution of wealth!

People like us with an honest interest in the paranormal tend to see projects like MK Ultra through that lens. However, those programs were very scientific and very focused on controlling populations. Much of went into those programs was meta analysis of psychology experiments and lots of funding of specific studies at universities. The drugs, RV and demon summoning was on the fringe of the thing; a tiny part. The science is now established and well honed. You are subjected to it every day and it is working on you - and everyone else. For trouble makers there even conspiracy theory misdirections to isolate them. Use your own rational mind and intuitions. If it has feathers yet swims, walks like a duck and quacks like one......
 
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