Hellish NDEs

#41
I do wonder about emotional bleed through. Howard mentions being very upset and angry even prior to his nde.


Can you link to studies of nde's, torment, and behavior? I remember reading this too. But honestly, would you want your life story told to a judge or among friends and family? I have nothing horrendous, so i think but who knows what torment i caused?
The trouble is, I read so much here - I would have to take copious notes!

This might help:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dancing-Past-Dark-Distressing-Experiences-ebook/dp/B007SYTK5C

David
 
#42
The trouble is, I read so much here - I would have to take copious notes!

This might help:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dancing-Past-Dark-Distressing-Experiences-ebook/dp/B007SYTK5C

David
Might be wrong, but in an interview Nancy says distressing NDE's are not related to behavior.

They are us, basically. The tormented and the insane. If you don't help someone and they die, that's your fault.

I've done that! haven't you? Know-ably not divested your investment into a charity , or tried harder to cure a disease. Not fair? But what about causal chains and personal responsibility? Where does the outrage belong? We all falled short. So we get to stay human.
 
Last edited:
#43
Might be wrong, but in an interview Nancy says distressing NDE's are not related to behavior.

They are us, basically. The tormented and the insane. If you don't help someone and they die, that's your fault.

I've done that! haven't you? Know-ably not divested your investment into a charity , or tried harder to cure a disease. Not fair? But what about causal chains and personal responsibility? Where does the outrage belong? We all falled short. So we get to stay human.
I can't figure out what you are saying, your first sentence seems at odds with the rest of your comment.

David
 
#44
I can't figure out what you are saying, your first sentence seems at odds with the rest of your comment.

David
Behavior is observable. Mind or being is private -- its quality is private. People won't admit their evil nature anyway! Cultural construct or not!

You can't expect honesty as it would be embarrassing. Therefore the study is pointless. Can't report their own beliefs on their mental development / quality, and behavior is culturally relative.

Asking if we have a history of major crimes isn't helpful. The algorithm of being a bad or good isn't knowable by us individually. We simply cannot know enough to be good or evil. We lack the power as individuals. Power is the right word. We do not determine what feels good. We influence it, sure. But we are not the sole universal power, just, perhaps tiny parts of it.

So why such pleasure or pain after death? It might very well be that some of us make mistakes but don't even know them as such. Look at howlaws change around drugs, sex, marriage, war crimes or the severity of punishment.

We might be in a unknowable universe and pure luck determines our fate. But the odds seem good, judging by what many glimpse when near death.
 
Last edited:
#45
I actually am guessing that this world is here, in part, to figure out what good or evil feels like. Our experiences confer a coherant quality -- lived experience --to something abstract. If so, why punish anyone?

Because we are tiny but maybe our power can grow out of control in the wrong direction.

I still wonder how can "heaven" maintain its structure? Maybe this world helps create heaven. Maybe our knowledge further solidifies its ongoing aim of perfection.

I've read a few accounts of nde'rs asking the light/god 'why'? They say its purpose for us is simple and obvious. They are super motivated. This world matters, so to speak! Even if its matter does not. It appears we are like god. We have forgotten who we are and have dissasociated ourselves.
 
Last edited:
#47
There’s never been a better explanation of hellish realms that I’ve encountered then that put forth by Jurgen Ziewe in his book “Vistas of Infinity: How to Enjoy Life When You’re Dead.” I’ve lost interest in the topic since because I found it so personally convincing and reasonable. Particularly in light of studies from other afterlife areas including consciousness.

https://www.amazon.com/Vistas-Infin...2?keywords=jurgen+ziewe&qid=1576694940&sr=8-2
 
#48
Absolutely horrifying, nightmarish Russian NDE with visions of eternal hell. It's the second Russian NDE of that nature I've seen. She was driving on a highway in 82 and had a frontal collision with another car. She was driven to a hospital where she had a cardiac arrest and pronounced dead. She found herself floating above her body seeing the doctors pronouncing her dead. Then she was pulled into a grey tunnel, which she describes as a very unpleasant experience. On the other end she sees a tall man with horrifying eyes who tries to grab her. Another man shows up and gets between them. The "man with terrible eyes" disappears. The "saviour" takes her to all these hellish places where he tells her who suffers for which sin. After all this, she is sucked back into her body in the hospital. She is describing various parts of hell where the sinners are tortured eternally for different sins: drunks, perverts, killers, etc, etc. She also comes upon a group of children, and is informed that they were aborted. She asked whether she was going to be punished for her abortions (in the USSR abortions were like a sort of a pass time, women used to have numerous abortions in their life time). Her "guides" didn't respond to that question.
Really weird and terrifying. I haven't heard an NDE this horrible from Western experiencers. Is this cultural, religion-based idiosyncrasy? If it is, why do those affect our perception of the afterlife? The only explanation that occurs to me is that this person was reinterpreting something ineffable and well beyond her comprehension that had happened to her through the prism of her religious beliefs. With the passage of time she added more and more details to this experience, which took place in 1982, and converted it into something entirely different and terrifying. Even from the Orthodox Christian standpoint, it's aberrant: at some point the supposed angelical entity (or even Christ Himself, it's not clear from her description) who's guiding her on her trip to hell tells her: "don't feel sorry for them, they are sinners". The Church says "we love the sinner, we hate the sin". Meaning, not to feel compassion toward the sinner is completely non-Christian. Then, another aberrant detail. Her guides tell her that there is no way out of hell, with one exception: "some sinner's family members can get them out of hell through constant prayer for their soul" So, basically, if you have an intercessor, you have a chance, if not, no. You have no free will, no influence over your own destiny, nothing. And her "experience" is filled with the nonsense like that. And it's the second one of this nature I hear from Russian experiencers. .
 
Last edited:
#49
There’s never been a better explanation of hellish realms that I’ve encountered then that put forth by Jurgen Ziewe in his book “Vistas of Infinity: How to Enjoy Life When You’re Dead.” I’ve lost interest in the topic since because I found it so personally convincing and reasonable. Particularly in light of studies from other afterlife areas including consciousness.

https://www.amazon.com/Vistas-Infin...2?keywords=jurgen+ziewe&qid=1576694940&sr=8-2

Thanks, I'll take a look at the book. If you feel inclined I'd love to hear a summary of what you found so compelling though.

It's a bit of a mystery to me as to why I'm interested in this area. It's not that I can't form a plausible explanation as to why these experiences exist, perhaps it's that I feel there's something spiritually transformative about them when they are engaged with.
 
#50
Absolutely horrifying, nightmarish Russian NDE with visions of eternal hell.
Thanks for posting. I take it you understand Russian?

There are some pretty awful Western NDE's, I tried to get a guy called Bryan Melvin on the show, who reports going on a guided tour of Hell.

I'm currently looking into a text called The Apocalypse of Peter, which seems to be the source of our cultural images of Hell. Some versions of it reference both aborted babies and people being saved through intercessory prayer. It's interesting that modern Christian Hellish NDE's owe more to this non-biblical text than to anything in the Bible.
 
#51
Hellish realms are explained quite well in the "Bardo Thodol". The evil entities are simply projections of our own subconscious and once we admit that fact to ourselves they vanish. Very well explained and expounded on in this wonderful book that was one of Carl Jung's favorites.
 
#52
Thanks for posting. I take it you understand Russian?

There are some pretty awful Western NDE's, I tried to get a guy called v on the show, who reports going on a guided tour of Hell.

I'm currently looking into a text called The Apocalypse of Peter, which seems to be the source of our cultural images of Hell. Some versions of it reference both aborted babies and people being saved through intercessory prayer. It's interesting that modern Christian Hellish NDE's owe more to this non-biblical text than to anything in the Bible.
Yes, I was born in the former USSR. It would be interesting to hear Melvin's interview, I hope you do get him at some point.
I find Christian NDE'rs narrations of hellish experiences pretty horrifying and, as I mentioned before, hard to accept from ethical point of biew, even myself being a Christian. It's all pretty confusing....
 
Top