Inter flat-worm memory transfer through cannibalism

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by Wormwood, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Are you guys familiar with this. I just heard about it and started looking into it. Apparently, worms were shown a Y shaped maze and via electrical shock were prompted to turn right. Eventually, the learned this behavior and turned right. Then, they fed the learned worms to un-learned worms and found that the unlearned worms eventually learned to turn right much faster after they had eaten the learned worms. It was a very large study undertaken by many independent people. I hope I just presented the study right in that paragraph as I have just began reading about it.

    http://www.reed.edu/biology/courses/BIO101/renn/intro_web/labs/hartry_1964.pdf
     
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  3. I don't know what causes these phenomena. But I don't see a contradiction to having memories stored physically in the body and believing in survival of personality after death. People who think there is a contradiction are making assumptions for which they have no evidence.
     
  4. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Nah no way could it prove that. Its very interesting though.
     
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  5. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I didn't realize anybody was suggesting that. That's a striking leap of logic.
     
  6. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    The only thing is that people have pointed out the problems with the concept that memory is stored in a physical form, for example Rupert Sheldrake does so in his book:

    http://opensciences.org/open-questions/are-memories-stored-as-traces-in-brains

    It is also discussed in Irreducible Mind.

    Also, after enormous effort, no explanation of human memory has been discovered, even though damage to certain locations in the brain can lead to an inability to lay down new memories and/or remember stuff.

    I take it as probably true that organ transplants do transfer some memories - because these extraordinary reports seem so unexpected, and yet in one case, as I remember, the donor's murderer was caught using hints from the recipient's extra memories.

    My cynical approach to science tells me that the flat worm research might be less reliable - there have been claims about the physical location of memory before.

    The interesting question is what is going on in the organ (mainly heart) transplant cases!

    Maybe when a person partly dies and partly carries on living, that confuses the process of DE followed by reincarnation that we tend to think happens!

    From a materialist point of view, I think transplant memories are really hard to understand. The problem is that memories are supposed to be stored in neural nets that adjust statistically to incoming data. These nets should be unique to each person - so my NN for a can of beer might be just white noise to you - or even represent a teddy bear! This is also a problem for materialistic explanations of telepathy.

    David
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  7. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I think it’s probably a psychic connection of some sort. If somebody who dies has living tissue that goes on, part of their ego could very well stil be attached to it as they were already attached to it previously. Consciousness seems to have many layers.
     
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  8. It seems to me these objections to physical memory are offered because they think it contradicts survival of personality after death. Or they are based on philosophical arguments. But philosophers can disagree which is why I think you have to consider the empirical evidence and form your theory from empirical evidence not philosophy. It is a huge but very common mistake to ignore empirical evidence that conflicts with a philosophy.

    There is a variety of evidence that shows memory continues after death, that it is not (always) stored in the brain, and that it is stored in some physical form.

    So to me it seems like all these data have to be combined into a theory: Memory is not all physical, it is not all non-physical.

    I don't believe there is a complete theory that explains all the evidence, but one explanation I have read is that the spirit body is a cell for cell duplicate of the physical body.

    That would explain some of the data from spirit surgery:

    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2014/12/zerdinis-world-article-on-george-chapman.html
     
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  9. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    Rupert Sheldrake discusses similar phenomena in his book The Science Delusion. His concept of biomorphic fields for communicating this type of information is interesting and doesn’t rely on cannibalism lol.
     
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  10. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    The thing is, duplicating things doesn't really explain anything - it just creates additional complication.

    A computer programmer could use grep search a lot of text files for the occurrence of the name Barbara. However, suppose he wanted to search them for a sad poem , or a poem about fish, or an example of a fallacious argument? Sure, if these were categories into which the data has been pre-sorted - no problem - but that would reduce a person's memory to something akin to computer memory.

    You might try to store the information together with some 'meta-data' to help in recall, but then you would have to find the meta-data, etc etc.

    I think the analogy between human (or animal) memory and computer memory, is simultaneously attractive and deeply misleading.

    David
     
  11. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Seemingly the most credible of psychics (ie-those who have solved cases for police departments etc) seem to operate better when they are holding an object which the person in question (victim) owns. How much more effective would this be if you were actually hosting a living organ of that person? That very well may render psychic capabilities to people who otherwise do not seem to have any ability
     
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