Mod+ Introduction to Explorers & Implementers

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by alex.tsakiris, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Saiko says:
    Much of the discourse on here is what I call intellectualizing. Opinions about what's been read/heard/watched etc. And back-and-forth about those opinions. Opinions about opinions ya might say.

    I'd like to see a sub-section that was focused on doing. Using OBEs as an example the threads would be for those who engage them, what their experiences have been, what techniques they used, etc. Of course those who haven't yet accomplished such but are actively working on implementing the would also be welcome to participate. However the participation would still be focused on their doing, their experiences and not on their thoughts about what they've read.
     
  2. john.sundog

    john.sundog New

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    As you know, there are already many discussion groups centered around such things. Do you (or does anybody) have in mind a way to make it particularly relevant to the Skeptiko Forum participants? That would be great.;)
     
  3. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    There are already many discussion groups centered around everything here so that's irrelevant. IME the great majority of them either .well . .suck or are focused on a specific area of exploration

    As for making this relevant, that's up to you, me and all who use it. I believe that as long as the naysayers, pseudo-skeptics, debaters and those who want to intellectualize post in other sub-forums - and we all respect others' experiences, approaches and even ideas for approaches - we'll be able to stimulate people to their own explorations and glean ideas, refinements for our own.
     
  4. JCearley

    JCearley New

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    What exactly are you referring to as "intellectualize"?

    I'm not sure how you can efficiently do "refinements" without debate and intelligent speaking, because those two concepts are integral to improving ideas. (Socrates' method is meant to debate someone to expose failures of consistency so someone can make their ideas consistent.)
     
  5. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    Given that you are "not sure" I'd say this section is not for you. Of course what you mentioned has a valid place - in fact most of the overall forum is geared to that. This sub-section is for utilizing other methods, enhancing other abilities. It is not for debates, "improving ideas", hypotheses, testing, data analysis, proving or any of those sort of approaches. All those things are what the other sections and especially the Consciousness and Science section - are for.

    This section is for those who are sure and are, in whatever way(s) to whatever degree, delving into - exploring and implementing - their own abilities. I expect this section will be less trafficked but - if it can be kept to its intent - very valuable
     
  6. JCearley

    JCearley New

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    You misunderstand my use of the words "not sure" to mean skeptic. What I have said, if read closely, is that I don't see how you can refine an idea by never criticizing it. This looks akin to making a forum for people who sketch pictures, and then telling people to never criticize any of the sketches for any reason:

    • It is not for debates: As I already mentioned, those are unavoidable. This right now is a debate, I am positing that your parameters are nonsense and will not help people with what you want them to be doing. If someone mentions a different meditation technique, that is also a debate.
    • "improving ideas": Okay, so we should delete Frank's post where he posits his own experience as a means to be a better psychic? He's offering "ideas" for "improving" your abilities.
    • hypotheses: A hypothesis is as simple as saying, "I think there is food in the fridge."
    • testing: So if someone suggests a new meditation technique (which they aren't allowed to do as I mentioned above) I'm not supposed to "test" it or recommend someone else try it because I did it?proving: Not even to oneself?
    • or any of those sort of approaches: What approach is left? Blind back patting of anything and everything someone posts?

    It sounds like what you want is the old Haven, which was succinctly described as a "no debunking" forum. Are you saying, with the description you have given thus far, I can go write a post about a fictional experience seeing parrots carry briefcases of million dollar bills and nobody at all is allowed to tell me, "That sounds like a very strange dream."? Because that would be data analysis. I'm not seeing the point of having a forum where someone can say to go stand with your full body weight on three bent fingers and shout "POTATO!" ninety times as a technique for something, and completely barring all forms of dissent or "I don't think that works" or "That just made my hands hurt."

    Please explain to me how that would be "very valuable", or if you meant the old Haven rules.
     
  7. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    Folks like you puzzle me. You have an entire forum that fits your desired parameters yet you will still be irked that there's a section that operates in ways not within your sanctioned approaches.

    The sketch is a good analogy. It's a section for people to develop their sketching abilities and for others to offer hints on how people may expand aspects of their sketching. It is not a section for critiquing or criticizing sketches or for proscribing how/what people should sketch.

    As for your comment about fictional posts - no doubt someone could troll if they want to. But that holds true about any subject with any approach. If I post about the pizza I made yesterday how will you know if it's false? Will criticizing my description of how I made it make it any more factual? I will trust that most people aren't pathological liars.

    The fact that you repeated "refine an idea" after I already responded to it along with the tone of your post strengthens my thinking that it isn't that you don't understand - it's that you dislike the intent of the section not being within your sanctioned approaches. I'm not about to debate that intent. As I also said before, this may not be the section for you. There is - once again - the entire rest of the forum for you to take those approaches that you prefer. At this point, I'd ask that, if the goal and parameters of this section aren't what you favor you please move on.
     
  8. JCearley

    JCearley New

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    Okay, so suggestions are fine then.

    I wasn't sure where exactly the line was between "this drawing is bad" vs "if you try drawing in a clockwise swirl the knees might be easier for you" sat in the range of acceptability.
     
  9. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    Yes! Well-meaning suggestions on enhancing the doing are not only fine - they are encouraged. Glad we got clear on that :) But please bear in mind that it's a suggestion and that one of the things about these areas is there's rarely a successful "one size fits all" approach.
     
  10. Jules

    Jules New

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    I see this thread as being a place where experiences can come and talk about what its like going down the rabbit hole. People can believe there is no rabbit hole or think they know more about Wonderland and what it feels like getting there, but actually they are wrong.
     
  11. K9!

    K9! New

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    Alex, are we allowed to start threads on psi experiments in this forum or not? Some of what Saiko has stated in his 'forum rules" thread seems confusing.
    He says science is not allowed and has interrupted threads in this forum to tell people not to put experiment threads here.
    I thought we could have experiment threads here and have the discussions about the experiments in the Consciousness and Science forum. Is that correct?
     
    Stephen Wright likes this.
  12. I described my experiences taking classes in mediumship here:

    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience
    and here
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/10/what-is-it-like-to-communicate-with.html
    Spiritual Healing
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/spiritual_healing
    The link describes the healing technique. When receiving healing you can often feel something like magnetism or heat penetrating your body under where the healer places their hands. When giving healing you feel a sensation of something ("energy") flowing through your body and out your hands. As I learned to do healing the sensation became stronger. While I was taking a certification course in healing I obtained seven affidavits of healing signed by people who felt some form of healing occurred during a healing session I gave them. This is not faith healing, it can be used on infants and animals who don't understand anything about it. It is rather unfortunate that people don't believe in spiritual healing or don't know how to do it because it is very easy and anyone can do it.

    Other experiences here:

    An experience of non-duality:
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/mystical_experiences


    Other experiences meditating:

    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/02/joy-during-meditation.html#joy_trip
    Spiritual practices and their effectiveness
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/03/spiritual-practices-and-their.html


    More...
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/62014-contents-evidence-for-afterlife.html#articles_by_subject_psy_dev
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  13. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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  14. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    It didn't look like fear-mongering. The page is clearly pro-meditation. Pointing out potential risks that one should be mindful of while practicing meditation is not the same thing as saying "don't do it!".
     
    Jim_Smith likes this.
  15. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    ??? Fear-mongering doesn't mean "don't do it." It means what you style as "pointing out potential risks. " It's BS. The sort of BS that many accept as sensible.

    There is nothing in that BS of value that couldn't have simply been included in an "effective tips" section. That the author thinks of "possible dangers" IMO means he/she would do well to mediate more and write less.

    Unless . .it was just added as legal protection.
     

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