I've met a lot of crazy people - but I have not met this

Pollux

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One thing/persons, I try to stay clear of, is real psychopaths.
I'm a really easy-going, friendlily, get-to-know, kinda guy - and I give people the benefit of a doubt until proven otherwise....meaning, I'm a fuckin sucker for a psychopath.Or I would be, if it wasn't for that I dealt with, conversed with, individuals, that I know would slit my throat - and feast on my face, and slowly peel the skin of my body, while they smiled - if I was left alone with them, and they felt they could have their way with me.

When you converse with a person like that they are, almost, every time, very, very VERY, polite -, and they do their utmost to act, and be perceived, as a gentle, chivalrous, nice, and intelligent, thoughtful, individual. They do this "over-act" as per what they "learned" that this is what it takes to be "accepted" as a "normal" person amongst other sentient beings.

But, these are the ´easy ones´. They try their utmost to ´act the part´, to fit in, to get what they want, to get by, lure, to manipulate, and in the end, get you to were they want to have you - then they "show themselves".

Then, we have those who are waaay pass that. Those who are really `fucked-up´ ( to choose a clinical term). They don't care,....they don't care about anything - except getting their daily elephant-load of `psychofarmaca´, and just drift back into oblivion. If you catch them when they didn't get their daily dose, it's a "rare animal". It's mostly a case of constriction.

Having insane people believing they are someone else, or see, and converse with some "unseen" persona, is quite "normal" for those who have "passed the border". But having individualise who really go in for the "possesion-part" are really rare. Really.

The "long slope to insanity" does take different courses for different patients. But those who are perceived to "act as" other persona's - and really "do-their-part" for it - is even rarer.

When some say that they ´converse with satan (or God)´ - and whom tell them what to do, think, and act - is pretty irrational. But, there are a few steps "beyond that" where psychiatry really struggles. A case like that was the German girl Anneliese Michel.

A young German girl who had a long history of declining mental health, as they saw it. And whom had been under almost any sort of drugs the doctors could throw at her, for a long time. She had a rapid decline in the end, and of how she acted out, spoke, perceived herself, and communicated, her parents - in loss of any other direction, based on what she acted, spoke, and came across, as an individual who spoked and acted out from a religious, and satanic mannerism - they acted upon their faith, and got an exorcist involved.

This was the "last unopened door" for these parents - since all the doctors & medicines did fuck-all, for her. What transpired after that, and what was said and done, there is just fractured recollections, and some tapes. The outcome, as we know, was that she died. She died of several, bodily reasons, but many individuals have "come back" from far worse situations than this. But nevertheless - she died.

But during that process, of the ´exorcism´, she proved some remarkable vigor, for a girl in her state.

Take a bit of your time, and listen to this part of the exorcism that was taped:

But before that; Here is a photo of her, just some months before her last ordeal & struggle:

Anneliese_Michel_2.jpg


..and here she is a four-set of pictures (from the bottom up) showing her rapid decline at the end;

8e11082526d1fa4e1d38a6616edc3748.jpg



When you've listened to this - even though it is in a foreign language - is this something you have ever come across before - ever?

PS: I must add that; I am NOT a clinical psychiatrist, or sort. My observations is purely from experience of interaction.

This is the voice of a 23 year old poor German girl called Anneliese Michel;



PSS: I cant help myself from crying a bit hearing this, really - poor girl.


.
 
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I think one of the potential issues in this case is that there seems to be an assumption that either nothing supernatural is occurring or demons are possessing her.

However, even before we can get to the possibility of something supernatural it's not clear to me that the natural had been exhausted? I mean from a quick glance regarding the history of the case she apparently wanted to martyr herself to make up for the sexual indiscretions of other kids? And this part of why she declined in mental health?

Perhaps someone with knowledge of the case can clarify but there seems to be a lot of feelings against sexuality due to her religious upbringing?

Maybe if her parents had read the God Delusion before having her she might have had a better fate?
 
I haven't watched the video, but in so far as alleged possessions go, they seem to be quite different in nature than psychopathy.
 
Satanic Ritual Abuse

Has there ever been a definitive, documented case of this? I mean we know many, many kids have been abused in the name of God but in the name of Satan not sure?

p.s. Don't get me wrong, a lot of kids have been saved in the name of God (I mean physically saved or educated, not "saved" as in accepting some random faith.).
 
Another thought - I wonder if the "demons" had been treated as mischievous spirits, past incarnations, calls of the person's Higher Guardian Angel, or anything that isn't a personification of Evil whether that might have helped.

I don't really understand this idea of Platonic Evil, or at the least it seems like an idea more fit for fantasy novels unless one wants to enslave minds or preserve bigotries?
 
Has there ever been a definitive, documented case of this? I mean we know many, many kids have been abused in the name of God but in the name of Satan not sure?
This is something you'd probably rather not know about . . . as absurd as it sounds, yes . . . whether the Satan part is really adoration of a religious entity called Satan or whether it's more a ritual symbol, I don't fully know . . . but anyway, I'd on most levels rather not have read the stuff I've read.
 
This is something you'd probably rather not know about . . . as absurd as it sounds, yes . . . whether the Satan part is really adoration of a religious entity called Satan or whether it's more a ritual symbol, I don't fully know . . . but anyway, I'd on most levels rather not have read the stuff I've read.

Well I'm not interested in graphic descriptions (I didn't even watch the video in the OP) but what are the number of convictions where there was clearly evidence of ritual abuse by people claiming to be Satanists?

I accept there are likely cases where an individual can either use "Satanism" as a lure or excuse, but I'd be curious if even that happened before or after the scare. (As a Dungeon and Dragons player + Metallica fan, I recall that there seemed to be a lot of supposed "Satanic" stuff going in the 80s & 90s.)

Here's a run down by Slate - not saying they are the definitive authority but it's at least a starting point to get discussion going.

Why did psychotherapists and investigators conclude that these fantastic allegations were true? Because at the time, pretty much everyone else in America did.

The seeds of the panic were planted with the 1980 publication of Michelle Remembers, the best-selling account of a Canadian psychotherapist’s work with a woman named Michelle Smith, who, under his care, began recalling forgotten memories of horrific childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her mother and others who were part of a devil-worshipping cult. The book, though riddled with fantastical claims (for example, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and the Archangel Michael healed Smith’s physical scars), launched a cottage industry in recovering memories of satanic ritual abuse. (The psychotherapist and Smith later married.)

The panic began in earnest with the McMartin Preschool trial, an investigation that began 30 years ago. The owners of a California preschool and several teachers were accused of molesting a 2½-year-old boy; before it was over, hundreds of children, usually after lengthy sessions with coercive therapists, came forward to say that they, too, had been taken to a church to watch the beheading of a baby, then forced to drink its blood or flown by plane to random cities for sexual abuse, or countless other bizarre stories.
 
Well I'm not interested in graphic descriptions (I didn't even watch the video in the OP) but what are the number of convictions where there was clearly evidence of ritual abuse by people claiming to be Satanists?

I accept there are likely cases where an individual can either use "Satanism" as a lure or excuse, but I'd be curious if even that happened before or after the scare. (As a Dungeon and Dragons player + Metallica fan, I recall that there seemed to be a lot of supposed "Satanic" stuff going in the 80s & 90s.)

Here's a run down by Slate - not saying they are the definitive authority but it's at least a starting point to get discussion going.
Hey Sciborg,

Sorry that this isn't a very satisfactory answer. The SRA thing is about like all the rest: it takes being interested and taking in a good amount of info . . . and probably part of that is going back and forth on what you believe has and hasn't happened. Directly, concerning convictions, I don't know how many convictions, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were zero. But I hate to say, Sci, Slate is the absolute worst. In my book, they're a mouthpiece in all cases for the government and establishment and can be counted on to back up the status quo story no matter what. So, I can check out that link, but as with all the rest, I imagine I know what I'll find.

For a moment, skip the SRA, and simply, if you're interested, start reading on the McMartin case and Omaha Boy's School. The McMartin case, while not necessarily being "satanic," shows the degree of sway and cover up available to those in power. I just watched all of the Making A Murderer series - really it's a long documentary - and that too, though in an unrelated way, shows that very same power to cover up whatever needs to be covered up.

OK, I just glanced up at the quote from Slate and saw the McMartin reference. I'll read it in a bit, but I'm telling you, if they act like the McMartin case was a "scare" or hysteria or anything like that - which I'm sure they do - then they're liars. I know that's a strong statement - why couldn't they simply be wrong? (Why couldn't I simply be wrong? I wish I were) - but I make it because of their 110% consistency in the stories they do and don't support. Anyway, I'm repeating myself. I'll dig up one of the better articles on the McMartin case shortly and send you a link.
 
Another thought - I wonder if the "demons" had been treated as mischievous spirits, past incarnations, calls of the person's Higher Guardian Angel, or anything that isn't a personification of Evil whether that might have helped.

I don't really understand this idea of Platonic Evil, or at the least it seems like an idea more fit for fantasy novels unless one wants to enslave minds or preserve bigotries?

I didn't watch the video either... don't particularly care to abuse my senses as I can imagine it is terrible. The nature of evil and demonic nature and origins is still a big question mark for me too.

You might enjoy reading the "Sinister Forces" trilogy by Peter Levanda. Reece recommended that to me and I've read the first book and am into the 2nd book now. It is a fascinating expose on the tangled web (either synchronistically or by design) of people, places, and events of 20th century America. From Charles Manson to the Indian mounds to Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard to aliens to the Kennedy assassinations and LSD... Levanda shows that all of these seemingly unrelated things are actually more closely linked than one would think.

Good has its opposite. I can't imagine what good would mean without evil. From a higher level, some might say that they are both emanations from Oneness so they are illusory, but down here in the dirt, it seems that good and evil are very real.
 
I didn't watch the video either... don't particularly care to abuse my senses as I can imagine it is terrible. The nature of evil and demonic nature and origins is still a big question mark for me too.

You might enjoy reading the "Sinister Forces" trilogy by Peter Levanda. Reece recommended that to me and I've read the first book and am into the 2nd book now. It is a fascinating expose on the tangled web (either synchronistically or by design) of people, places, and events of 20th century America. From Charles Manson to the Indian mounds to Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard to aliens to the Kennedy assassinations and LSD... Levanda shows that all of these seemingly unrelated things are actually more closely linked than one would think.

Good has its opposite. I can't imagine what good would mean without evil. From a higher level, some might say that they are both emanations from Oneness so they are illusory, but down here in the dirt, it seems that good and evil are very real.

Ah thanks for the rec.

I should clarify - I don't mean to say there isn't such a thing as evil in the sense of immoral actions, but I also don't think there are beings that are evil just because. I mean just as there are warlords and slavers and child pornographers in this reality I can see corrupted beings rationalizing immoral actions Elsewhere but I don't think even these entities would represent some kind of dedication to "Evil" as a Platonic concept existing out there.

My concern is that once you have Platonic Evil, it seems easy to then begin to shift acts that have no direct harm on others or self as "Evil" (genetic modification, worshiping the "wrong" god, being an atheist, sex before marriage, and whatever else people judge as against God). The other issue is that situations that can be remedied via education, nutrition, etc might be thought of as the work of "Evil" influences as per the idea that this "fallen" world will always be a place of suffering for some.

Finally it lets in what I consider incredibly poor arguments like Alvin Plantinga's assertion that we all have a sense of God but this natural faculty is obscured by "sin", whatever that is. (See Nagel's review.)
 
Well I'm not interested in graphic descriptions (I didn't even watch the video in the OP) but what are the number of convictions where there was clearly evidence of ritual abuse by people claiming to be Satanists?

I accept there are likely cases where an individual can either use "Satanism" as a lure or excuse, but I'd be curious if even that happened before or after the scare. (As a Dungeon and Dragons player + Metallica fan, I recall that there seemed to be a lot of supposed "Satanic" stuff going in the 80s & 90s.)

Here's a run down by Slate - not saying they are the definitive authority but it's at least a starting point to get discussion going.

Oh and I listened to a "survivor" of SRA give an hour long testimony on YouTube a few months ago. Can't find it now... but he said he wandered into it as a kid by playing D&D with a group of people who turned out to be Satanists. It started out with D&D and led to sexual abuse. He eventually got out of that and became a Wiccan. Then encountered some catholic he didn't know from Adam who psychically told him a bunch of stuff about himself and that he was on the losing team, so he converted to Catholicism... Don't know how much his testimony is worth but it was interesting... I tend to see Catholic or Fundamentalist protestant Christianity and Satanism as a hegelian dialectic... or two sides of the same coin. I think this is why many priests turn out to be Child molesters and all sorts of crazy stuff goes on in the Vatican. Or imagine the Ouroboros with the Pope at the head and the little children at the tail and all the good hearted fundies somewhere in the middle.
 
I didn't watch the video either... don't particularly care to abuse my senses as I can imagine it is terrible. The nature of evil and demonic nature and origins is still a big question mark for me too.

You might enjoy reading the "Sinister Forces" trilogy by Peter Levanda. Reece recommended that to me and I've read the first book and am into the 2nd book now. It is a fascinating expose on the tangled web (either synchronistically or by design) of people, places, and events of 20th century America. From Charles Manson to the Indian mounds to Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard to aliens to the Kennedy assassinations and LSD... Levanda shows that all of these seemingly unrelated things are actually more closely linked than one would think.

Good has its opposite. I can't imagine what good would mean without evil. From a higher level, some might say that they are both emanations from Oneness so they are illusory, but down here in the dirt, it seems that good and evil are very real.
Hey Hurmanetar, I think it was WhatIf? that suggested the Levanda book . . . though I know I brought up the Dave McGowan "Programmed To Kill" book . . . which is quite a beast . . . once you read it you can't unread it . . . I almost threw it away several times and probably should have . . . not because I questioned what he was saying, but because it was just too much for me to take in.
 
Hey Hurmanetar, I think it was WhatIf? that suggested the Levanda book . . . though I know I brought up the Dave McGowan "Programmed To Kill" book . . . which is quite a beast . . . once you read it you can't unread it . . . I almost threw it away several times and probably should have . . . not because I questioned what he was saying, but because it was just too much for me to take in.

Ah.. right.. I couldn't remember who suggested it.
 
Well I'm not interested in graphic descriptions (I didn't even watch the video in the OP) but what are the number of convictions where there was clearly evidence of ritual abuse by people claiming to be Satanists?

I accept there are likely cases where an individual can either use "Satanism" as a lure or excuse, but I'd be curious if even that happened before or after the scare. (As a Dungeon and Dragons player + Metallica fan, I recall that there seemed to be a lot of supposed "Satanic" stuff going in the 80s & 90s.)

Here's a run down by Slate - not saying they are the definitive authority but it's at least a starting point to get discussion going.

Check out various things at this sight . . . including this article:

https://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/...ol-case-what-really-happened-and-the-coverup/
 
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