James Ellis, Raising the Conversation Past Level Zero |473|

Alex

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James Ellis, Raising the Conversation Past Level Zero |473|
by Alex Tsakiris | Nov 25 | Spirituality
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James Ellis is a philosopher and creator of the Hermitix podcast where level three conversations are routine.

[00:00:04] Forgive the longer than normal opening clip, but sometimes a little snow piercer, Gnosticism is therapeutic.
[00:00:50] Today philosophy with the very excellent James Ellis from Hermitix.
James Ellis: [00:01:03] Not the zero I talk of a lot, but level zero for what the people online called normies because I don’t think most people are operating on there. The level of level one. I’m not saying I’m above them. There’s nothing wrong with just living your life and getting on with it. But in terms of like everyday conversation where people are saying things like, how are you, you know, how was your weekend? Those dead statements, that needs to be like level zero, where there’s just no content.
 
#2
Alex,

I am just listening to this excellent discussion, and I do hope that James joins the forum for a bit.

I searched the transcript for Donald Hoffman's name and I was a bit surprised you didn't bring him into the conversation.

I still think that a 2-dimensional time may be the right way to look at these issues.

(It was so refreshing to get away from COVID!)

David
 
#4
James' view of the UK media is perhaps a bit limited, some of the newspapers expose the fact that the 'experts' hold a wide range of positions about Climate Change, assorted medical matters, COVID, and indeed the vaccine. For example:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ses-flag-shaky-science-Oxfords-Covid-jab.html

I don't listen to the TV or radio any more - particularly the news.

I do think the question about the nature of time is really important, because almost every verb becomes meaningless in the absence of time. For example the verb 'want' implies that there is some condition now (T1) that you would like replaced by some other condition at a later time (T2).

Nevertheless, timelessness is often reported in NDE's and various mystical states, and a lot of people report that they existed before birth and chose the life they lead. When they chose it, they could see the whole damn lot. At a moer immediate level, lots of people have precognitive dreams.

OTH, the literature is full of spiritual beings that do things.

As I said above, it seems to me that we live in one time dimension and spiritual beings live in a second (orthogonal?) one, and can view our time dimension as a whole. So if they change something, all our times change. If, say, they try to 'improve' the universe, it all improves - all down through the ages - the improvement isn't just related to our future.

David
 
#6
Yes, let's move on from Cowan and COVID-19, or at least focus here as well. Interesting character this Ellis. He says he is not familiar with NDE research and Dean Radin, good you put him onto that Alex, because it will help him to flesh out his own ideas more, build them up I mean.

Ellis says: "But in terms of like everyday conversation, where people are saying things like, how are you, you know, how was your weekend? Those dead statements, that needs to be like level zero. Where there’s just no content. And I try to actually veer away from them because I actually find it just an actual waste of time."

This struck me, because I am so tired of the trivial inane blah in our society, decades of these meaningless conversations, I don't even remember them, it's as if they never were. But that reflects on our superficial society, ceasing to be superficial goes against what our society is about. So if you try to veer the conversation to more serious things (and I do NOT mean politics here, which itself is so inane and always misses the point), people can tend to freeze you out. I think it's why many of us can become loners. Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just why it happens. The fakeness of everything is just too much is what I mean, and I can see why some of us prefer to stay home and read a book, listen to music, than go out and engage in inane conversations about things one doesn't care about and that don't matter. This of course creates problems (with your partner obviously), but it's unavoidable.
 
#7
Ellis says: "But in terms of like everyday conversation, where people are saying things like, how are you, you know, how was your weekend? Those dead statements, that needs to be like level zero. Where there’s just no content. And I try to actually veer away from them because I actually find it just an actual waste of time."
Perhaps those conversations are more an opportunity for non-verbal communication - precisely because at the superficial level they are utterly trivial.

The most obvious example of this is when a man tries to chat up a woman (or perhaps vice versa), but I think the same concept applies in many other contexts.
This struck me, because I am so tired of the trivial inane blah in our society, decades of these meaningless conversations, I don't even remember them, it's as if they never were. But that reflects on our superficial society, ceasing to be superficial goes against what our society is about. So if you try to veer the conversation to more serious things (and I do NOT mean politics here, which itself is so inane and always misses the point), people can tend to freeze you out. I think it's why many of us can become loners. Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just why it happens. The fakeness of everything is just too much is what I mean, and I can see why some of us prefer to stay home and read a book, listen to music, than go out and engage in inane conversations about things one doesn't care about and that don't matter. This of course creates problems (with your partner obviously), but it's unavoidable.
I have highlighted the bits of that that I particularly agree with!

OTH, I actually think non-academic folk generally show more wisdom than the ones who have been through university, and know a lot of stuff! The former seem to have access to more common sense, and a reliable gut feeling for what is a scam, or otherwise fake. Thus I find that if you talk to such people about the C-problem, they simply know they are being fooled - as I am sure they are - they don't quote a load of studies at you, and don't show much interest if you try to do the same to them. My father had a phrase for it, "They stay at school till they are daft!" I never quite established whether he applied that to me.

David
 
#8
Ellis says: "But in terms of like everyday conversation, where people are saying things like, how are you, you know, how was your weekend? Those dead statements, that needs to be like level zero. Where there’s just no content. And I try to actually veer away from them because I actually find it just an actual waste of time."
I see these interactions as little cultural rituals and forms. Yes, they're on the lightweight side, not particularly meaningful and somewhat devoid of content, but perhaps they are necessary, forming a part of the cultural structure that allows the deeper stuff to take place. Even mild and completely unserious flirting could be seen in this way. It can be fun, too.
 
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#9
I see these interactions as little cultural rituals and forms. Yes, they're on the lightweight side, not particularly meaningful and somewhat devoid of content, but perhaps they are necessary, forming a part of the cultural structure that allows the deeper stuff to take place. Even mild and completely unserious flirting could be seen in this way. It can be fun, too.
I think its silly to dismiss these types of interactions as wasteful. They serve a purpose in terms of showing empathy, building relationships, building trust, building familiarity. Fits well under the broad umbrella of "love".

Now, we've likely all met people who are unwilling or potentially incapable of having any other type of conversation. I do think this is problematic and I tend to steer clear of folks like this. That's different, though, from taking a pejorative stance on these "level zero" interactions.
 

Alex

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#10
I see these interactions as little cultural rituals and forms. Yes, they're on the lightweight side, not particularly meaningful and somewhat devoid of content, but perhaps they are necessary, forming a part of the cultural structure that allows the deeper stuff to take place. Even mild and completely unserious flirting could be seen in this way. It can be fun, too.
great point. was the drumming circle and the roaring fire unnecessary part of our ancestors town tribal meeting?
 
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