Jesus’ Existence

#81
There is no line of separation.

That is not logical. That is dodging the question. There has to be a separation, events are either factual or allegorical. They are mutually exclusive. :)

I could certainly accept the possibility of a Jewish teacher in that era. The myth is a entirely different matter.

As I quoted Allegro.

"Even if there was a sectarian Jewish teacher living in Palestine during the first part of this first century called Joshua or Jesus he had nothing at all to do with a crucified Christos of Paul's theology. Thus had no part to play in the formation of that distinctive amalgam of faiths that eventually swept the world."
 
#84
I do feel sorry for the literalists and those who have been led astray by the church, they have been told a story devoid of understanding of the language it is told in and are missing the profound spiritual teachings that are embedded within it.

That language being myth. Myth was used by the ancient mystery schools to pass the spiritual message in code. Christianity was just another story built on a much older framework, all the symbols and allegories were pre existing in various forms. It is in fact a very old myth of the dying and resurrected God. These myths and traditions surrounded this new version of the story that it is woven from.

It formed in the rich landscape of Judaic and Hellenistic pagan mysteries. So it is hardly surprising. It is blatantly obvious. Read it, It is clearly mythological. It is also clear that it is a evolving story within gospels themselves and even contradicts some key points within itself. Clearly showing itself not to be a historical account. Which quite frankly is absurd.

In the old mystery schools there were both esoteric and exoteric teachings, the inner form and the outer form. The outer form are simply just the stories. That is what Christianity is today. As are most religions.

The story of this myth is to assist in leading one to a certain state of consciousness. I often use the Zen term satori or oneness. It is also Gnosis (knowledge) This refers not just to those varied sects we now refer to as Gnostics but numerous Pagan traditions and Eastern traditions. It was at one time ubiquitous. The name of what it is doesn't matter.

It is also the Shamanic journey, The death of the ego into the oneness of being, then to return once again. The symbolic death and rebirth.

It is connecting with that part of ourselves that is beyond the body and beyond the mental. It is spirit, the part of us that observes the mental, that which lies beyond the ego. The Nous. Symbolically the Monad.

The ego BTW could be considered as being symbolized by the Demiurge. It keeps us imprisoned to this truth.

The story is about the spiritual journey. That is it in a nutshell. It is about resurrecting the Christ in you. Paul even states...

The mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:26-27)

Study it this way, ponder the symbols and the patterns and the blinders are removed, you will see it again and again in many cultures spanning thousands of years.

Since it is impossible to have reasonable exchange with religious people, I will just post with the spiritually inclined in mind. Those two categories are quite different as we all know. Again one is the inner, the other is the outer.

Hopefully I'll have some time to expand on some of the symbols and how they relate to the journey. It is the same very, very old story. This way hopefully people who are not religious but still spiritual may be able to see what it once was in light of what it has become.
 
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#85
I do feel sorry for the literalists and those who have been led astray by the church, they have been told a story devoid of understanding of the language it is told in and are missing the profound spiritual teachings that are embedded within it.
Have you ever considered helping Literalists understand how the exoteric and esoteric aspects of Christianity relate to each other instead of simply telling them their God is a stupid archon, Jesus never existed, and raping little children is okay because Evil doesn't actually exist?
 
#86
Have you ever considered helping Literalists understand how the exoteric and esoteric aspects of Christianity relate to each other instead of simply telling them their God is a stupid archon, Jesus never existed, and raping little children is okay because Evil doesn't actually exist?
The God of the old testament is quite well described as are his actions. Jealous, vindictive and genocidal are accurate terms.
I never said evil does not exist.

In a sense I just tried to do what you are saying I should do but I know it is fruitless. Hopefully I'll have time to expand further into some specific symbolism but I got to say your crazy unhinged and evasive responses are turning me off that idea.

Literalists don't want to understand it, everything they believe is founded on fantasy. Just look at how you are behaving. That is exactly the sort of irrational and emotion driven dribble that ensues and why I no loner engage them personally. Your doing a great job of proving that point. It's truly stunning to behold your attempts to invert logic and then proclaim yourself as the arbiter of logic while evading at every turn.

I'm just going to ignore your nonsense. Sorry.
 
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#87
Hopefully I'll have time to expand further into some specific symbolism but I got to say your crazy unhinged responses are turning me off that idea.
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The problem is, don't we get into the question of who wrote the dictionary that translates symbols into reality? Doesn't it end up as a Pizzagate-type discussion?

David
 
#90
I've no idea what that means.
Maybe I was too cryptic!

You wrote:
Hopefully I'll have time to expand further into some specific symbolism but I got to say your crazy unhinged and evasive responses are turning me off that idea.
I was trying to point out that symbolic scriptures are meaningless/misleading unless the reader has a dictionary of what each particular symbol represents!

I am very wary of interpreting scriptures in that way - which is not to deny that some texts probably are written that way.

David
 
#91
I was trying to point out that symbolic scriptures are meaningless/misleading unless the reader has a dictionary of what each particular symbol represents!
Granted many can be illusive and the meaning is left to ponder, which does not make them meaningless, it may simply have personal meaning and can become the tool of meditation or divination. It is wise to not become single minded as there can often be layers of meaning. Some are also well defined and quite clear. Why we have Rabbits giving out eggs at Easter for example. :)

Meanings can be interpreted outwardly with the repeated patterns in multitudes of myth, ideal types or archetypes as well within the context and use of language as well as the cultural landscape. If you become familiar with esotericism and paganism it is not nearly as ambiguous as you might think.

They are deeply imbedded in our unconscious, even if we don't realize it they affect us on that subconscious level. It is a matter of psychology and the psychology within the particular culture, it's evolution and traditional roots.

For me personally it has been a working from the inside to the out, tapping into the subconscious only to then learn outwardly the same meaning I had received already existed. I can't express how remarkable this has been for me, it is when the two worlds meet. The inner visionary process meeting with that of existing myth.
 
#92
I am having trouble finding an accurate answer to what I thought was a simple question:

Do most historians believe that Jesus existed or not?

on Wikipedia (I know not necessarily the most reliable) it says : most historians believe Jesus existed .

then on big think , it says most believe he did.

then i see in other sites , most don’t believe he existed and still another website said historians are split .

well which is it? I’m looking for factual answers . What percentage of historians believe that Jesus really existed ?

can anyone point me in the right direction ?[/QUO

Even the atheists historians do .
 
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