John Brisson, Finders Cult or Another Epsteinesque Brownstone Op |443|

Alex

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#1
John Brisson, Finders Cult or Another Epsteinesque Brownstone Op |443|
by Alex Tsakiris | Mar 10 | Spirituality


John Brisson has new information on the Finders Cult and their connection to gov sponsored sexual blackmail.
photo by: Skeptiko
Alex Tsakiris:
[00:00:00] Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris, and as you know, I’m always impressed by independent researchers who managed to make monumental contributions to our understanding of the world, without any institutional support, with barely any financial support, and usually while battling against forces that seek to keep us locked into whatever prevailing narrative they want. I mean, consider today’s guest, John Brisson, and what he brings to this ongoing discussion I’ve been having about the nature of evil.
So I’ll just remind you if you’ve been following along with me on this little journey. You know, I’ve talked to some very legitimate experts on the topic, highly respected religious professors like Jeff Kripal, Hugh Urban, top notch anthropologists like Brian Hayden and Gregory Shushan. These are real legitimate academics who are going to conferences, publishing papers, and are being supported by major institutions, major universities. And you know, I’ve even kicked these ideas around with the likes of Dean Radin and Rupert Sheldrake.
But time and time again, I’ve been disappointed to find that these folks are, I don’t know, they just seem to be unwilling to look at the deep abyss that goes with the data, the compelling data that forces us to confront the reality of some malevolent forces that are in this extended consciousness realm, to put it in, kind of Skeptiko terms.
So back to today’s guest, John Brisson, who runs a YouTube channel called, We’ve Read The Documents, which usually features John reading documents, often secret documents that have been released through FOIA requests. But John is also the author of an upcoming book on The Finders Cult, an organization with not just provable links to satanic ritual abuse, but unfortunately provable, and I’m going to emphasize that word again, provable. He’s got the documents, links to United States intelligence organizations like the CIA and the FBI, who were tapping into this evil in order to compromise foreign diplomats and other, not foreign diplomats, but other individuals they wanted to control through blackmail, through sexual blackmail, and that’s going to be a topic we’re going to talk a great deal about today.
So John and I were just spending one second talking before this, and this is going to be a rough ride for a lot of people. I know a lot of people have already tuned off, they saw the title or whatever, and they’re not going to listen to this. I know in my own personal life, very few people I can talk to about this. People in my family, I can’t talk to about this. They shut down, they just don’t… No matter, you can pile the data wide and high, it don’t matter man. They don’t want to go there.
And that’s what I so appreciate about John and his approach, his methodology, he’s very, very much into following the data, checking his sources, but he’s also willing to go there.
John, it’s great to have you back on Skeptiko, thanks so much for joining me .
 
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#5
Alex,

I think I am reasonably persuaded that sexual blackmail of the worst kinds (involving children, trafficked women, murder) is going on inside organisations such as the CIA or MOSSAD, etc. These organisations are obviously horribly out of control. However,

1) I think it would help if you could select one plot out of all that tangles 2 hour web, list the actors with some indications where they fit within the government/military and show how that all connects together. I get lost in it all - partly I guess because I am not a US citizen, and maybe because of my age! I notice that you yourself express doubts about how easy this is to listen to.

2) Maybe question if this is as closely linked with the nature of consciousness as you think. You say Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin and Jeffrey Kripal don't seem interested in this aspect of the nature of consciousness - and maybe they are right. I mean I am sure extreme sadists might enjoy the trappings of Satanism simply to scare their victims more than they already are.

Maybe it would be better to expand more around the uncontested fact that Jeffrey Epstein was doing this. Everyone knows this case to some extent, so there is a bedrock of knowledge to build on. I am disturbed by the fact that even though the police - and maybe journalists - must presumably have complete access to his island, no further information has come out for some time. I mean, were there children's bodies there, have they encountered other children there, where is Ghislaine Maxwell? Are they stalling on trying to extradite Prince Andrew to the US? The FBI is supposed to want to interview him, but surely the legal process doesn't stop there!

David
 
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Alex

Administrator
#6
You say Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin and Jeffrey Kripal don't seem interested in this aspect of the nature of consciousness - and maybe they are right. I mean I am sure extreme sadists might enjoy the trappings of Satanism simply to scare their victims more than they already are.
not sure I get your point... Can you explain further.

uncontested fact that Jeffrey Epstein was doing this.
first off, I don't think it's an "uncontested fact"... there are always fundy pseudoskeptics... moreover, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. but let's say I get your point... then, you might conclude that reality of it was "uncontested" years ago for anyone willing to look... just no one was paying attention.
 
#7
not sure I get your point... Can you explain further.
Well my point is, is this just about people with power behaving extremely badly, or about evil conscious entities of some sort?
first off, I don't think it's an "uncontested fact"... there are always fundy pseudoskeptics... moreover, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. but let's say I get your point... then, you might conclude that reality of it was "uncontested" years ago for anyone willing to look... just no one was paying attention.
The point is that most of us don't come to a podcast like that with a ton of background reading about who is who in American public life. Even a small piece of the saga, such as the Epstein scandal shows cleary the scale of the problem - and as I pointed out, it also seems to show that the authorities are dragging their feet about exposing everything that Epstein was up to.

I should say that I am only half way through the podcast at this time.

David
 
#8
Thank you for the interview Alex, I’m sorry to hear Skeptiko is losing subscribers but I suppose it does reveal something interesting about people’s difficulty with this topic.

As a result of the recent shows I was actually just re-reading Satan’s Silence, by Debbie Nathan and Michael Snedeker. It’s the book John Brisson criticises in the show. I looked through the visible sections of Ross Cheit’s The Witch Hunt Narrative on Amazon today and contrasted the two takes on the McMartin Preschool case.

Whilst I’m very open to this kind of activity going on in other areas, I find the McMartin case uncompelling.

Drawing largely on Satan’s Silence, here’s how I understand it:

This episode of history was influenced by the publication of Michelle Remembers (1980), about the recovered memories of Michelle Smith of Satanic abuse as a child. None of the details of the book could be verified, no one corroborated Smith’s claims and the claims themselves seem logistically unlikely. Smith’s psychiatrist turned husband Lawrence Pazder seemed to back away from the book as historical truth. It’s held up as the classic case of False Memory Syndrome.

In 1982 we then have the Kern County child abuse cases, which started with the accusations of Mary Ann Barbour, a lady suffering with schizophrenia. Multiple convictions for child abuse were attained and then overturned years later with compensation payouts. It seems abundantly clear that children were manipulated to give false accusations as, in the example of the Kniffen’s, the family reunited after the parents spending twelve years in jail. I would suggest the Netflix series Making of a Murder has given insight into how suseptible a percentage of the population is to giving false testimony/confession.

Also presented at the trial of Brenda and Scott Kniffen was physical evidence from Dr. Bruce Woodling, that their two boys had been sodomised. Given their exoneration and reconciliation with their children, I can only assume this was complete nonsense.

There’s a documentary of the case called, Witch Trial, unfortunately not available where I live.

The originator of the McMartin accusations, Judy Johnson, clearly had mental health problems (she ended up being sectioned after an armed standoff with police). Whilst they do appear to have gotten a lot worse as time went by, I don’t see any reason to suppose they were solely brought on by the stress of the case and weren’t present at the beginning. Her accusations included things like her son being attacked by a lion and having staples put in his tongue. This seems unlikely.

The medical examiner for the case, Astrid Heger, was a colleague of the aforementioned Bruce Woodling and employed his techniques.

The case rests on the interview techniques of Kee MacFarlane, which seem to be demonstrably coercive and ultimately why the case collapsed. I also don’t find it credible that large numbers of children could witness things like goats being sacrificed and not show any signs of trauma to their parents. Not to mention where the McMartin’s got all the goats from.

Just to reiterate my position, I find the evidence for the Franklin scandal completely compelling, I’m completely open to Finder’s Cult stuff, I don’t think Epstein killed himself and I do think this whole area is the most important one we can be talking about. However I also think that, at its worst, the US justice system descends to the level of the Gulag Archipelago and is perfectly capable of locking people up on false accusations and coerced confessions.
 
#9
Well my point is, is this just about people with power behaving extremely badly, or about evil conscious entities of some sort?
David
I think we have to accept that both are possible, separately and coinciding. I do not see any evidence whatsoever that the Epstein case has anything to do with the supernatural or paranormal, at least not that Epstein was actively engaging in anything related to "extended-consciousness realms." People on the internet make way too much of a deal of the "the temple" and the the fact that he had a sun-dial (pagan!!!).
 
#10
Thank you for the interview Alex, I’m sorry to hear Skeptiko is losing subscribers but I suppose it does reveal something interesting about people’s difficulty with this topic.

As a result of the recent shows I was actually just re-reading Satan’s Silence, by Debbie Nathan and Michael Snedeker. It’s the book John Brisson criticises in the show. I looked through the visible sections of Ross Cheit’s The Witch Hunt Narrative on Amazon today and contrasted the two takes on the McMartin Preschool case.

Whilst I’m very open to this kind of activity going on in other areas, I find the McMartin case uncompelling.

Drawing largely on Satan’s Silence, here’s how I understand it:

This episode of history was influenced by the publication of Michelle Remembers (1980), about the recovered memories of Michelle Smith of Satanic abuse as a child. None of the details of the book could be verified, no one corroborated Smith’s claims and the claims themselves seem logistically unlikely. Smith’s psychiatrist turned husband Lawrence Pazder seemed to back away from the book as historical truth. It’s held up as the classic case of False Memory Syndrome.

In 1982 we then have the Kern County child abuse cases, which started with the accusations of Mary Ann Barbour, a lady suffering with schizophrenia. Multiple convictions for child abuse were attained and then overturned years later with compensation payouts. It seems abundantly clear that children were manipulated to give false accusations as, in the example of the Kniffen’s, the family reunited after the parents spending twelve years in jail. I would suggest the Netflix series Making of a Murder has given insight into how suseptible a percentage of the population is to giving false testimony/confession.

Also presented at the trial of Brenda and Scott Kniffen was physical evidence from Dr. Bruce Woodling, that their two boys had been sodomised. Given their exoneration and reconciliation with their children, I can only assume this was complete nonsense.

There’s a documentary of the case called, Witch Trial, unfortunately not available where I live.

The originator of the McMartin accusations, Judy Johnson, clearly had mental health problems (she ended up being sectioned after an armed standoff with police). Whilst they do appear to have gotten a lot worse as time went by, I don’t see any reason to suppose they were solely brought on by the stress of the case and weren’t present at the beginning. Her accusations included things like her son being attacked by a lion and having staples put in his tongue. This seems unlikely.

The medical examiner for the case, Astrid Heger, was a colleague of the aforementioned Bruce Woodling and employed his techniques.

The case rests on the interview techniques of Kee MacFarlane, which seem to be demonstrably coercive and ultimately why the case collapsed. I also don’t find it credible that large numbers of children could witness things like goats being sacrificed and not show any signs of trauma to their parents. Not to mention where the McMartin’s got all the goats from.

Just to reiterate my position, I find the evidence for the Franklin scandal completely compelling, I’m completely open to Finder’s Cult stuff, I don’t think Epstein killed himself and I do think this whole area is the most important one we can be talking about. However I also think that, at its worst, the US justice system descends to the level of the Gulag Archipelago and is perfectly capable of locking people up on false accusations and coerced confessions.
Thanks for that. I think that was a very reasonable assessment of this area.

My feeling is that we are not going to right any wrongs whatever we decide in response to these podcasts, so really we need to ask if they can be used as reasonable evidence of something evil and paranormal. I would argue that they cannot.

Of course, they can be used to show how evil the human mind can be, and they can can be used as evidence (if it were needed) that the spy agencies in Western countries should be under a much tighter democratic control.

David
 
#11
there are a few things that Jesus says in the Gospels that have helped me in following what I believe is the better path through life on Earth. Jesus tells us collectively at Matthew 7:11 that we are all evil. And He tells us the prince of this world is the Devil. We may deduct from this that we must therefore be in Hell here. Although there are among us a minority who seek to graduate from the cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth, life, death, rebirth known as Samsara; most of us don't escape at bodily death to Moksha otherwise known as salvation. That is, to find oneself in the presence of God Himself. A place that is reportedly more pleasant than the most pleasant experience one may have had on Earth multiplied by a thousand. We can't seem able to remove ourselves from being perpetually drawn to the attractions of this world. Attractions that are all enticements by the devil but which all become disappointments. We need to learn to hate it all. Jesus tells us, "He who hateth his life in this world shall preserve it for life eternal." (John 12:25)
Although I cannot fathom how anyone could get their jollies from engaging in sexual acts with small children such a monstrous person may safely be assumed among the damned when they die. It is reported there are worse places to be than even this Earth. Leading a life such as to find oneself boarding there should not be something to aspire to.
 

Alex

Administrator
#12
As a result of the recent shows I was actually just re-reading Satan’s Silence, by Debbie Nathan and Michael Snedeker. It’s the book John Brisson criticises in the show. I looked through the visible sections of Ross Cheit’s The Witch Hunt Narrative on Amazon today and contrasted the two takes on the McMartin Preschool case.
tell me what you think after reading Witch Hunt Narrative:
1583983939669.png
 

Alex

Administrator
#15
my biggest takeaway from this very short segment from the book is -- why didn't I know this? why are all my associations with McMartin preschool connected to false memories and injustice? why did I never hear about any medical evidence? why didn't I hear about the three different doctors that examined this kid because he was showing signs of sexual abuse? as you know this pattern of disinfo / missinfo / co-opting the narrative is standard practice in these kinds of cases.
 

Alex

Administrator
#16
you might check this interview out at well. this guy was invited by law enforcement to do a boots-on-the-ground investigation glendale montessori school. he found the chloroform... he found the rooms with locks six feet high. it's not the McMartin case it's about the Glendale case ( with many verifiable links to other montessori school cases) but you'll find all the same kind of denials... even though this case led to a criminal prosecution.

 

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Alex

Administrator
#17
BTW I'd love to have Debbie Nathan on for an interview... but I bet you a small fortune she'd never agree to it. if you can help me set it up I'll do it anytime anywhere. the woman looks like a simple-minded useful idiot.
 

Alex

Administrator
#18
By the way I did a search of debbie nathan's book searching for richard segal who was the boys pediatrician... as you can see no results.

1583986715855.png
 
B

Baccarat

#19
This might sound odd but these references to Satan are borderline racist. No old world religion has a figure like Satan, but many have christ like figures like the preceding HERU and many others. It's funny how native American, Egyptian, aboriginal, hindu vedic have any references to Satan. Satan is completely made up, look up the etymology of these words. Regardless or not of they did these sick rituals in the name of Satan does it make Satan real. It's a composite character at best. Does anyone here know how many times the Bible has been revised? Not only that it is poorly translated, it's been translated close to or over half a dozen times. It's a completely butchered book with vague passages, edited chapters, omitted words and paragraphs etc. That's like taking a biology class and getting a biology book with pages missing, definitions of words wrong, pages out of order etc
 
B

Baccarat

#20
there are a few things that Jesus says in the Gospels that have helped me in following what I believe is the better path through life on Earth. Jesus tells us collectively at Matthew 7:11 that we are all evil. And He tells us the prince of this world is the Devil. We may deduct from this that we must therefore be in Hell here. Although there are among us a minority who seek to graduate from the cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth, life, death, rebirth known as Samsara; most of us don't escape at bodily death to Moksha otherwise known as salvation. That is, to find oneself in the presence of God Himself. A place that is reportedly more pleasant than the most pleasant experience one may have had on Earth multiplied by a thousand. We can't seem able to remove ourselves from being perpetually drawn to the attractions of this world. Attractions that are all enticements by the devil but which all become disappointments. We need to learn to hate it all. Jesus tells us, "He who hateth his life in this world shall preserve it for life eternal." (John 12:25)
Although I cannot fathom how anyone could get their jollies from engaging in sexual acts with small children such a monstrous person may safely be assumed among the damned when they die. It is reported there are worse places to be than even this Earth. Leading a life such as to find oneself boarding there should not be something to aspire to.
Not to be rude but this is an open minded discussion group, all your replies so far are bible related. You have literally shown no independent thought, all theories go back to a revised book we get it. But I'd like to hear your independent thoughts on the subject matter as opposed to parroting Bible verses
 
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