Joseph Atwill, Why is the Deep State Interested in Psychedelics? |364|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Joseph Atwill, Why is the Deep State Interested in Psychedelics? |364|
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    Joe Atwill cautions against the resurging interest in psychedelics and entheogens. [​IMG]
    photo by: Skeptiko
    (audio 1979 news report) In their never ending search for the miracle weapons, CIA operatives searched here, in the remote mountain areas of Southern Mexico, for what, up until then, had been considered a myth; magic mushrooms.

    The clip you’re listening to is from a 1979 news report and it’s one of the chapters in the fairytale version of the CIA’s involvement with psychedelics and as strange at that opening ten seconds was, it gets even stranger.

    They used this man, a part-time chemist for the CIA, to dupe this man, a vice president of a bank and an amateur mycologist or mushroom expert, to try and get to the magic mushrooms and turn them into a drug, but it would be the amateur, R. Gordon Wasson and his colleagues, who would win the race and develop the drug psilocybin from the magic mushrooms.

    Now, the notion that a Wall Street banker like Gordon Wasson, who is deeply connected at the highest level to the United States government, to the Director of the CIA, to the Council on Foreign Relations, which is like the most influential group in Washington, the idea that he was somehow the central figure in the discovery of magic mushrooms in the hills of rural Mexico is just, again, it’s the stuff of fairytales.

    But, if we’re to pull apart and truly understand what psychedelics are and how they’ve been used in our culture and how we might use them going forward, well this story might have a lot of significance to those questions, and that is, at least, certainly the opinion of today’s guest on Skeptiko, Joe Atwill.

    Joe Atwill: They do not have any concern whatsoever for the human value of their subjects. These are lab rats. They knew perfectly well that the drug produced psychosis and they knew perfectly well that a fraction of the people weren’t going to come back, but they went forward with the experimentations regardless.

    This was all used against us once. The sex, drugs and rock and roll culture was artificial, it was used against us, it really debased and damaged our culture. So now, as we sit here, we have this new era, new drugs, new research, new government involvement. We just aren’t in a position, until we know what is controlling the government, to trust these things.

    Stick around, all that and a lot more coming up on Skeptiko.
     
  2. Steve from ABQ

    Steve from ABQ Member

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    To me this all smacks of "The Hippies couldn't have been right about anything" BS. What does Atwill think of the claims that the whole "Jesus Freak" thing was just a way of getting Hippie kids to move away from the political left?
     
  3. Alex

    Alex New

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    IMO it's a "soft power" play. the deep state would love to have "hard power" if they can get it (e.g. Cybernetic level control of folks), but the first order of biz is to have a position at the table.

    the feminism example (i.e. the long-term relationship with Gloria Steinem) might be a better demonstration of how it's done, but the game is the same. they want a seat at the table so they can influence the outcome... without knowing what that outcome might be.

    for Skeptiko purposes we can ask -- what is the deep state's interest in consciousness? what role might drugs/substances play in that?
     
  4. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    Thomas Jefferson said having slaves was like holding a wolf by the ears.
    If they are enslaving people they will never be free either.

    (I haven't heard the interview yet, I'm replying so I can follow the thread.)
     
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  5. They haven't been getting the results they want through mass hypnosis so they are looking for ways to augment mind control.

     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  6. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Alex's question at the end of the interview:

    How much should we be concerned about the government's past, present and future interest in manipulating consciousness through psychedelics?
     
  7. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    How much should we be concerned about the government's past, present and future interest in manipulating consciousness through psychedelics?

    Hardly at all, because if there's one thing governments can't control, it's how people think. I doubt if even in North Korea most of the people swallow the crap they're being fed. Luckily, the mass of individual minds are still beyond external control; also, people can dissimulate, saying one thing whilst thinking another.

    This guy Atwill, in my estimation, is off his tree. Terence McKenna? Alan Watts? Both members of secret organisations out to change the world in negative ways? Bollocks. I don't say that there is no conspiracy in world affairs, but then again, I can't see it absolutely everywhere. Basically, you can fool all the people some of the time, and some people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

    I honestly don't know how Alex could be bothered to give this headbanger the time of day, let alone the air time. Additionally, Atwill doesn't seem prepared to even entertain the idea of consciousness being independent of the brain, and to be resistant to all thought beyond the most superficial. Which to be fair, is pretty symptomatic of many materialist thinkers. Is Atwill a materialist? It certainly seems so.
     
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  8. We should be very concerned. They are legalizing lamb's bread because they want to make us all sheeple.

    The best way to fight mind control is with meditation which teaches you to control your own mind. It's better than drugs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  9. From the transcript:

    " Joe Atwill: ... they couldn’t care less about the democratically controlled components of democracy"

    This is 100% correct.

    http://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-506-post-9568.html#pid9568
     
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  10. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Simply put, The Oligarchs/Deep State/Establishment saw those psychosis-inducing drugs as a way to better manage the populace.

    Alex, generally speaking, the Oligarch’s don’t give a flip whether Islam/Christianity/Judiaism/Satanism is true, whether “enthogens” help you better understand Consciousness, or whether people are nothing more than meat robots.

    Their Number One Goal is MANAGEMENT of their Cattle. The only thing they care about is which tools are most effective for that.
     
  11. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I actually dislike Joe Atwill. He appropriates the research of others without attribution. He sometimes repeats things as fact which are not because he is too lazy to do proper verification.

    That being said, this was a really good episode and I appreciate it very much. Atwill made good arguments.

    --------------------

    Interesting points in the interview:

    Alex said: “Somebody has to rule the world”. Maybe. I don’t know, but debating that belief of Alex’s would be an interesting conversation.

    Alex’s wife’s disbelief in 9/11 Conspiracy: It’s hard for us Truth Seekers to understand but, the vast majority of Normies are happier not knowing. Their minds recoil in horror at the idea of a 9/11 Conspiracy because they subconsciously know full-well the painful implications that would logically follow from knowing the Truth and Do Not Want it. There is nothing wrong with them not wanting that pain.

    McKenna was “Less Dirty” but not clean. There are varying degrees of what CIA documents call “Unwitting Participants” and “Witting Participants”.
     
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  12. Philemon

    Philemon Member

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    You mean, a box of rain won't ease the pain and love won't see us through? :eek:

    The thing about promiscuity and the breakdown of families made me recall the lyrics to the Grateful Dead's "Operator":
    Yuck.
     
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  13. Alex

    Alex New

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    I think the Gordon Wasson stuff is very significant. It's a mistake to brush this stuff aside.

    again, the Gloria Steinem stuff is a good point of reference... "well sure she partnered with the CIA (i.e. deep state) and has been a tool for them ever since, but look at all the cool Ms. mag covers." I ref Steinem and the feminism thing merely to show how easily/quickly the apologists fill this space without thinking thru the implications... I mean, feminism was much needed in the 60s, but do you really want the CIA running the program?

    now run thru same substituting "consciousness expanding drugs" in place of feminism.
     
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  14. Philemon

    Philemon Member

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    Like another forum member said, I don't think anyone can have total control over how we think - but I think you can gain a lot of control over *what* people think about. That's the sleight of hand that a lot of tricky, manipulative folks are good at. The news is a huge distraction. Most of what it contains is frightening information (frequently about "health news") followed up by advertisements for prescription medications that *you* should ask your doctor about (because what do doctors know? a commercial by big pharma is waaaay more authoritative). However, what the news focuses on in general are a number of things that none of us can do anything about. Will Trump and "Little Rocket Man" kill us all today? Has Russia taken over the US Govt? Will the California wildfires devour the entire state? Is global climate change going to destroy the earth by 2100?

    I'm a leftie these days, so I watch The Young Turks for my news. However, despite that being a YouTube program, it nonetheless leaves me feeling frozen and unable to respond effectively to anything. Then I find myself engaging in any number of self-distracting/consumer behaviors like drinking beer, eating, buying stuff I don't need and don't end up using, mindlessly looking at my phone, etc.

    So, anyway, to answer the question: I don't think it matters all that much about Big Brother screwing with us through psychedelics - the thing we should be concerned about (and get a better grip on) is that he is screwing with us, period; why he's screwing with us, and how we can inoculate ourselves and increase what self-direction and autonomy we can manage to muster up.
     
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  15. Alex

    Alex New

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    I have a lotta respect for James Corbett, but he lost it when I followed this line of thought here:
    http://skeptiko.com/dr-alexander-wendt-and-james-corbett-clash-over-inevitable-one-world-state-301/

    folks like James lean to Anarcho-capitalism and volunteerism as viable solutions when they are built-on/dependent-on deep state controlled infrastructure... doesn't make any sense to me.

    what can we do... wave the flag and fight the Petroyuan :)
     
  16. Alex

    Alex New

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    get yr point... then again, I think we need to understand this history as part of the inoculation :)
     
  17. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    I thought Corbett was a libertarian? Ugh anarcho-capitalism -- let's get rid of the fulcrums of power, but keep the economic Thunderdome where we battle each other to the death in a rigged meritocracy to justify our right to not starve to death! No need for referees, I'm sure cheating is out of the question! Yay!

    (I'm actually warming to a more anarchic system as it seems to me that laws are rather gross ham-fisted things which cannot account for the rapidity of human change or the fine detail and malleability of social interactions. But why jump out of the frying pan of capitalism only to bring the fire with you?)
     
  18. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    James Corbett is right to oppose the Global Managerial State Technocracy outlined in Aldous Huxley's book Brave New World, and being brought to fruition first in the People's Republic of China, and later the rest of the world.

    Anarchy is not the solution, because it's not natural to people. Capitalism and Communism are not the solutions because they both wreck civilization.

    The solution is to first decide the End Goal you think would be best, then work backwards to see what steps will get us there.
     
  19. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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  20. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Joseph Atwill's thesis seems a bit incredible.

    1) Rock and roll culture and the liberalisation of sex is a secret plot by the oligarchs (really?).
    2) The most important aspect of the entheogens is what the oligarchs might plan to do with them.
    3) There is a decades (centuries?) long plot to enslave us all.

    I honestly don't buy that. I can imagine that various arms of government tested entheogens on people - probably without their 'informed consent' - but that doesn't make for a master plan.

    Now, if someone proposed that the new culture of introducing the subject of sex-change, and LBGTQABCDEFGHIJKL into junior school might be aimed at sedition, I might agree!

    On the whole, I think these elaborate plans to enslave us all are basically rubbish. Simpler, basic plans, like getting us to buy more, or getting us to import vast numbers of people who will buy more, or tricks to get us to consume more prescription drugs, or Pizzagate - they seem rather more plausible.

    David
     
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