Jurgen Ziewe is bringing Virtual Reality to the Spiritual Experience |465|

#21
To be fair to @garry, when we're dealing with extended consciousness experiences, as opposed to questions of are my children really mine or is David Baily doing the devil's bidding (a moot point), the territory is far trickier to navigate, and the possibility for error, if not necessarily deception, is decidedly higher.
Sometimes I like to push an argument to its ultimate extreme, in the hope that it makes those holding the opposite viewpoint see the need to somehow qualify what they are saying.

BTW, there is an 'e' in my name - possibly inserted by Satan for some reason!

David
 
#22
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

“The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist realist fears it is true.” J. Robert Oppenheimer

I myself can't imagine a worst one, unless a demon is at the helm. I have lots of trouble understanding Jurgen's state of bliss.
I think the only way you can say that is to somehow take everyone's woes on yourself.

The exciting thing about Jurgen's vision of death and beyond seems to be that after death our circumstances are more fluid - we can gradually move through the various realms of extended reality.

David
 
#23
I think the only way you can say that is to somehow take everyone's woes on yourself.

The exciting thing about Jurgen's vision of death and beyond seems to be that after death our circumstances are more fluid - we can gradually move through the various realms of extended reality.

David
That's it... but I would add, because I do it now, while alive... I experience these extended realities now. What I was complaining about was the one tied to physicality tied to this planet at this time. I am able to get to the buddhic plane and "feel the unity" and rest in the bliss and then, at some point, I allow my attention to pull me back into focusing on here (Earth in the physical in the now) and though I still have that sense of ultimate bliss I haven't lost my mind that this place is reveling in bliss (a subjective opinion).
 
#25
I think the only way you can say that is to somehow take everyone's woes on yourself.

The exciting thing about Jurgen's vision of death and beyond seems to be that after death our circumstances are more fluid - we can gradually move through the various realms of extended reality.

David
Yes, it is taking in and taking on the woes of others and of the world situation that bedevils an empath.

What country do you live in, David? For me, I think it was the debate which wasn't a debate but a mockery that has shocked me into a dark night.

I have been here before, and I always come out the other side.

Thanks for your reply and reminder of better conditions beyond this plane.
 
#26
Yes, it is taking in and taking on the woes of others and of the world situation that bedevils an empath.

What country do you live in, David? For me, I think it was the debate which wasn't a debate but a mockery that has shocked me into a dark night.

I have been here before, and I always come out the other side.

Thanks for your reply and reminder of better conditions beyond this plane.
I wish you would write less cryptically.

Are you talking about the election debate?

I am a UK citizen, but follow the US election closely because I think President Trump is more likely to maintain world peace that whoever would end up controlling Biden.

By "been here" do you mean been on this forum, or are you perhaps saying that you have been reincarnated before?

David
 
#27
I wish you would write less cryptically.

Are you talking about the election debate?

I am a UK citizen, but follow the US election closely because I think President Trump is more likely to maintain world peace that whoever would end up controlling Biden.

By "been here" do you mean been on this forum, or are you perhaps saying that you have been reincarnated before?

David
Sorry I was unclear. Yes the election debate, which deeply alarmed me b/c Trump, who previously had my support, acted like a buffoon in the eyes of many in the U.S., my country.

"Been there before" meant in a dark night of the soul.
 
#29
Sorry I was unclear. Yes the election debate, which deeply alarmed me b/c Trump, who previously had my support, acted like a buffoon in the eyes of many in the U.S., my country.
I didn't see much of the debate, but Trump has my support because I like a lot of what he has achieved in office. He doesn't talk in the same way as a typical politician, and the US only has the choice between those two.

I do think Trummp should explain his policies a bit more. I mean he should point out that shutting down the whole economy for a indeterminate amount of time just isn't really practical - even if it would save lives - which is less than clear.

Does all this relate much to Jurgen Ziewe?

David
 
#30
I didn't see much of the debate, but Trump has my support because I like a lot of what he has achieved in office. He doesn't talk in the same way as a typical politician, and the US only has the choice between those two.

I do think Trummp should explain his policies a bit more. I mean he should point out that shutting down the whole economy for a indeterminate amount of time just isn't really practical - even if it would save lives - which is less than clear.

Does all this relate much to Jurgen Ziewe?

David
I wish you had seen more of the debate. It was truly embarrassing and may well have cost Trump the election.

I believe the recent discussion does relate to Jurgen, esp his views on evil (which is why Alex had him on I think). Take a look at

350. Jurgen Ziewe - Buddha at the Gas Pump

https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/ https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/

download option: https://batgap.com/audio/350_jurgen_ziewe.mp3
 
Last edited:
#31
I wish you had seen more of the debate. It was truly embarrassing and may well have cost Trump the election.

I believe the recent discussion does relate to Jurgen, esp his views on evil (which is why Alex had him on I think). Take a look at

350. Jurgen Ziewe - Buddha at the Gas Pump

https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/ https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/

download option: https://batgap.com/audio/350_jurgen_ziewe.mp3
Analise,

I am going to reply to the Trump part of your comment in the Trump Consciousness thread.
 
#32
Another excellent interview!

Jurgen Ziewe's out-of-body journeys mirror my experiences with journeying with ayahuasca. I had a similar experience of traveling through levels of increasing darkness to the depths of hell. It was similar to what he describes. And the way out was also similar. That may be a better media than virtual reality for systematizing these experiences.

Your riff on people meeting Jesus and confusing that with validating Christianity is spot on. In the early 1980s when I was living in Bethlehem, I had an epiphany of Jesus. As a Jewish man living in Occupied Palestine, I was not looking for Him. However, there we was. I learned two things from him that night. One was that his spirit is real. Two was that the last thing he ever had in mind was to start a church. I agree, Alex, that religion is designed to disconnect people from these realms of extended consciousness. Science has the same preoccupation. The former does it by introducing priests as intermediaries. The latter gave us the dead universe.
 

Alex

Administrator
#33
... we should wonder why some spiritual traditions tell us to be very wary of exceptional visionary experiences. This could be particularly wise given our age's understandable craving for the spiritually fantastical.

Again, absolutely none of this is aimed at Jurgen. I just thought Garry's point wasn't totally irrelevant and reactionary. It's a balancing act, I suppose.
that's my read as well... be wary... don't cling.

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this but I seem to remember jurgen saying that he's actually had very few of these extraordinary experiences.
 

Alex

Administrator
#34
... I am waffling between the "I don't give a f%ck" stage and concentrating every moment of my life on my own, personal spiritual practice... measuring my success all and only by how I perceive my impact upon others (as honestly as I can so do) to turn out to be... all of this anchored by my core operational assumption that I am 100% responsible for everything of my experience, my eternal, identity based experience. 100%
IDK... in a strange way I feel somewhat inspired/challenged to rise above the plandemic's dark soul-crushing energy.

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. ”
― Mahatma Gandhi
 
#36
One aspect of Jurgen Ziewe's descriptions of his time in Dante's Inferno with the suicide bombers that stood out for me is that he did not examine how this fits in the context of inherited trauma. As a German of the Boomer generation, my first question is what were his family's experiences during the War? Did his father or grandfather participate in the Holocaust? The Arabs he identified as 9/11 suicide bombers may have been mirrors of scenes from Concentration Camps.

I do a lot of work with descendants of Jewish victims and German perpetrators of the Holocaust. I have encountered Josef Mengele twice over the years. The first time was several years ago when I worked with a great-granddaughter of his. She was Norwegian. Her grandfather was the son of Mengele and a Norwegian woman who was his concubine in the late 1930s. She was wracked with images from the camps and his torture of children. More recently, I worked with a man who claim that his soul was twinned with Mengele's. Mengele was a physician and as pure evil as a person can be. This work presented the opportunity to explore the question of how Evil moves in the realms of extended consciousness.
 
#37
that's my read as well... be wary... don't cling.

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this but I seem to remember jurgen saying that he's actually had very few of these extraordinary experiences.
If you explore his other interviews and work, you'll find he pretty much lives in an extraordinary state. He goes into samadhi frequently when he meditates. And in his ordinary life he lives in a state of what he calls seeing "behind" matter to the bliss hiding there. This is fascinating b/c Plato perceived matter negatively (his divine craftsman had to work around it / could not recreate the beauty of the Forms fully on this plane.) This view has carried through all these millennia to mystics like Andrew Harvey. But not to Jurgen.

This gives me hope as our reality becomes more and more dystopic
 
Last edited:
#38
If you explore his other interviews and work, you'll find he pretty much lives in an extraordinary state. He goes into samadhi frequently when he meditates. And in his ordinary life he lives in a state of what he calls seeing "behind" matter to the bliss hiding there. This is fascinating b/c Plato perceived matter negatively (his divine craftsman had to work around it / could not recreate the beauty of the Forms fully on this plane.) This view has carried through all these millennia to mystics like Andrew Harvey. But not to Jurgen.

This gives me hope as our reality becomes more and more dystopic
350. Jurgen Ziewe - Buddha at the Gas Pump

https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/ https://batgap.com/jurgen-ziewe/
 

Alex

Administrator
#39
If you explore his other interviews and work, you'll find he pretty much lives in an extraordinary state. He goes into samadhi frequently when he meditates. And in his ordinary life he lives in a state of what he calls seeing "behind" matter to the bliss hiding there. This is fascinating b/c Plato perceived matter negatively (his divine craftsman had to work around it / could not recreate the beauty of the Forms fully on this plane.) This view has carried through all these millennia to mystics like Andrew Harvey. But not to Jurgen.

This gives me hope as our reality becomes more and more dystopic
nice. thx. I definitely get the "world, what world?" vibe from him. which in some ways makes his point about the brief time he spent in peak experiences states all the more interesting.
 
Top