Kent Forbes, Does the Simulation Hypothesis Defeat Materialism |323|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. Small Dog

    Small Dog New

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    One philosophy that is in a away similar to simulation hypothesis is Hermetism. According to it's postulates the Universe is the mental image of the Absolute, which is present in its every particle of the World, but at the same time is not that particle. It goes further: the thought creation is similar at every level, and the Man creates his own Universe and lives in his own thoughts. Everything vibrates, moves, has opposites, everything has a rhythm and everything happens in accordance with the Law of cause and effect. It also postulates reincarnation.
     
  2. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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  3. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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    Which would lead us back to idealism... They can't be thinking this through. And speaking of idealism, Bernardo was around a few days ago, I'm sure that he has some insights about this topic.
     
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  4. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    My philosophy more or less is similar to Hermetism, it resonates with me alot, but I don't for one second think it is the whole truth and noting but the truth. Right now I am reading the occult way by p.g. brown, very interesting book. People freak out when they see me reading it. One lady asked about it and we ended up talking for 2 hours about her mediumship. She said she never did it for money and she did it for friends and such and one day ended up letting in "bad spirits" she said it frightened her and she stopped. I believe she was telling me the truth. I believe she was genuine, but you know how anecdotes go in the world of science heh. I am very intuitive myself and can am pretty good at telling when people are lying, or telling the truth or a bit of both.
    She had another gift....forgot what it was called, basically she can tell you what a person looks like with out meeting them
     
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  5. KeithA

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    For me, God somehow leaking in means it's more than a simulation. And surely we have to "stay here" otherwise we'd be going against the point of being here in the first place.
     
  6. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Though it seems objectionable to many people, It may be that we are here voluntarily. It may seem otherwise maybe because we have become somehow 'entangled' with this environment and our purpose is to disentangle ourselves. I'll immediately add that a more common idea is that our sole purpose is to love, How do these ideas relate?

    I had this idea, which I'm sure I've borrowed from somewhere, I don't claim it to be original. My idea goes like this. We are rather like astronauts sent to explore another planet. Imagine the difficulties of going on a journey to the planet Mars. There are all sorts of obstacles to be overcome yet It seems the urge to explore is stronger than any objections, sooner or later we are bound to go there.

    To extend this idea, in the case of a visit to Mars, we'd have radio communication with Earth, but with a time-lag of twenty minutes or more, there would effectively be isolation. In my scenario, during the descent through the atmosphere of some unknown planet, not only do ordinary radio communications become cut off, but the explorers find their movements are slowed down, it becomes like swimming through treacle (I'm sure that has a different name outside Britain). And to add to that, the explorers thoughts become scrambled, the place is intoxicating, like being permanently on some sort of drug-induced trip, where within moments of arrival, the astronauts exploring that strange planet forget that they are from Earth, forget that they are explorers and become confused with the idea that where they are is all that there is.

    I don't know if this means anything to anyone else, perhaps I'm not putting it well. Anyway, the last part of this story of the astronauts on their journey of exploration is that they do somehow eventually return home to Earth, perhaps due to some automated timer built into their spacecraft. But when they return, they have been changed, the scrambling and confusion which occurred during their travels remains, yet there is also a sense that it has been a heroic achievement and something has been gained. However, it seems the only way to straighten out the confusion is to go back on yet another trip of exploration, this time knowing in advance that it will be an intoxicating journey, the goal is to try to go on the journey while maintaining in touch with their true nature, to knowingly go back to a dangerous yet beautiful place which caused the confusion, and try to become unconfused. In this story, to become 'unconfused' would be to remember fully while in that alien environment that they are astronauts sent from Earth. And the analogy here is that our purpose is to remember that we are love.
     
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  7. KeithA

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    Logically, this applies to all living stuff having a physical existence in this plane, other animals, plants etc. Which could open up the possibility of "landscapes of existence" containing such life in other planes - and we can go there too after death if we choose. Perhaps some way in the sense of animism where I mean the definition, the attribution of a soul to plants, inanimate objects, and natural phenomena.

    I like your ideas and that of being "confused" and going back on another trip. Maybe the key is being confused because then we're in an unstable state where we are always questioning what this physical life is all about and not accepting it as the true reality. Unlike those who just spend their lives shopping and think, well, that's it.
     
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  8. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    That's an interesting thought, certainly among traditions such as Native American and I'm sure others, there is considered to be life in everything, as opposed to our common Western ideas which tend to separate humans from everything else.

    Glad you found it interesting. Rather like a dream which is quickly forgotten, this kind of idea came to me two or three weeks ago, and I'm not sure I've remembered or expressed it quite so clearly as I first had it visualised. For example the word 'confused' may not be quite what I originally had, but it is a sort of approximation.

    That in itself is interesting: I had an idea, complete and fully-formed when it first came to me, it has perhaps deteriorated a little in the retelling and with the passage of time. It's a bit like trying to remember a half-forgotten tune or piece of music, the original was more satisfying. I should have taken notes at the time.
     
  9. EthanT

    EthanT Member

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    Whenever I think along these lines, I can't help but think of experiences with mountaineering. There are moments when you couldn't be any "higher on life" when you're out there, but there are also moments (due to weather, injury, exhaustion, overwhelming fear, etc.) where you question your sanity for ever involving yourself in such a damned activity in the first place and just want the experience to be over really, really bad.

    Life, in general, and human reaction to it, seems similar. Things are going good and "life is grand", we're "living the dream", and want to "live life to the fullest" and be "young forever", etc. Then we might experience disease and loss and suffering and all of a sudden life sucks and why would we ever sign up for this crap.

    Seems like a fairly similar reaction. Many folks who climb in the mountains ultimately admit they don't do it solely for "fun". They do it for the adventure - or, the robust and wide-ranging set of varied human experiences, both good and bad, you can have while in the mountains. You can test yourself, probe your limits better, and learn more about yourself, as a result. It's a far richer activity, than one that is just "fun"

    This analogy is far from perfect and I don't mean to relate "adventure" to war, disease, etc, but I can't help but think we do not come down here because things are perfect and good. That would limit the experience. We come down because things are imperfect, and therefore allow a broader range of unique human experiences to learn and grow from. Also, we got to keep in mind many of the things that make life imperfect come from us. Perhaps it's the striving to make life more perfect, to "glorify Christ in the world" and realize "we're all brothers after all" that is the purpose of life in the first place. Or, as Alex points out - NDE'rs who ask what the purpose of life is, get the answer, "learn how to love". Anyhow, just like you can't isolate the "good" from the "bad" in climbing, you can't in life, either, in general. Nor would we probably want to, if we could step back and see it's net worth. It would be like climbing without the challenge, without the weather, without the fear of death, which as Jim Morrison said, one can feel most alive from while confronting. Why bother?

    Also, I think, if we could see "the Kingdom of Heaven spread out upon the Earth", if the eternal spiritual realm and our eternal self was as real to us, indeed more real to us, than our physical being, how hung up would we get on our physical circumstances at that point? If our eternal self was realer to us than our physical being/body, or if we identified with the spirit and looked at the body only as temporary vehicle, there would be no loss in the world, as far as death goes. Death would only be a transition, with both sides of that transition visible to all of us at all times. The only loss would be the loss of that unique experience we can have while incarnated in space-time in a physical body. (Then again, if we were that spiritually evolved, would incarnating still hold any value?) But, we would have the knowing that what is absolutely vital to making the experience of being alive special is the transitory nature of the experience. In that case, fear in the world is due to our isolation and separation from the eternal divine, which can bring about an appearance of mortality and the seeming imperfection to life, which all makes us wonder why we signed up for all this in the first place. But, it's just a mistaken, limited perspective tricking us, while at the same time providing a set of unique experiences one cannot have "in heaven", while in touch with the eternal divine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  10. Vault313

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    Again, if you haven't read Natalie Sudmans account, I highly recommend it. She says similar things to what you are saying here.

    Upon her arrival to "there" she found herself on a dais, surrounded by an enormous number of beings in white robes. And they were commending her and she felt a huge amount of respect coming from them. She felt as though she were being honored for doing some great thing, like an explorer or a warrior of some sort. She also noted that she was made aware that the beings only appeared in white robes because it's how she would feel most comfortable but that this was not their true form. Also, IIRC, she said not everyone comes here or has the ability to do so. That incarnating is a special skill.

    Her account is one of the most detailed accounts I've ever read. It also highly resonated with me. It is just her account of her experience, so hardly proof of anything, nor is it scientific. But it often seems that the things that are most important to us are just that, anecdotal and unscientific.
     
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  11. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Yes, I've read or seen videos of Natalie Sudman, possibly this is where I've borrowed this from. Actually after a while I started to become irritated with her account, or perhaps with her presentation style, at any rate, I don't find myself fully resonating with her story, but it might just be a personality difference.
     
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  12. Vault313

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    I've never heard or seen her speak, just read the book. I have no doubt the source from which we receive information is just as important as the information itself. We have to be in the right "place" so to speak, I think. If the source of something doesn't resonate with us, the message doesn't get through. Just my thoughts. I also think we all receive exactly what we need when the time is right.

    What works for some, doesn't for others, and that's cool. Regardless of what exacly this reality is, it's rich with variety. Something to suit everyone. :)
     
  13. Vault313

    Vault313 New

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    This actually made me think of something that's been happening to me lately. I've always had what's called hypnogogic hallucinations, basically dreams outside of the REM phase. (I also get sleep paralysis, lucky me!) But lately as I wake up from these (so it's like I'm dozing, in a light stage of sleep, then I kind of wake up) I have the quickly receding memory of something I just dreamt, only its seems like it's important, but I can't quite remember what it was. It's more like I know I knew something, but cannot remember what it was. Just that it was important. I wish I could describe it better. But it's the strangest thing.:eek:
     
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  14. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    For normal dreams I write every one down to get then a pattern of remembering. So not sure if this would work for yours. I get so much detail sometimes and you have to get up very fast to get them down! I once had a kind of "test" each night, one was for seeing where things were really clear and I could keep on focusing on detail and the next was for hearing. I do wonder if it was some kind of "dry run".
     
  15. Vault313

    Vault313 New

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    I wish I could write them down. Normal dreams I can, but these are gone so fast all I can remember is that there was something, but now it's gone. Again, it's a very strange feeling.
     
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  16. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Hypnosis to remember?! Just a thought. But the ones you get in your state ... for me I hear voices and have rather odd little complex stories as well, things that just pop out of nowhere.
     
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  17. Vault313

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    Yes, I get those too. Both the bizzare visuals and voices. I remember once being awoken by a very loud woman's laugh.
     
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  18. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I seem to get something like this. If I am reading a book in bed, I can slip into a light doze, and my attention seems to drift off into another realm - thought seems to be continuing, but as I wake up from this mini-dream, I can feel the whole thing slipping out of my head. This may happen more than once before I put the light out and go to sleep. I don't know that any of it is important, but sometimes I wake with the echo of a voice that just said something.

    What amazes me about my dreams, is the speed with which I normally forget them - that forgetting process is incredibly efficient, and I don't think that can be 'accidental'.

    David
     
  19. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    It seems common like David also says above. As a normal dream I had this which was so NDE like. I was on a train full of people but could see clear ahead the track, like seeing through the train. There were lights far distant then I realized it was a single track! A train approaching. Then both trains passed through each other and it was a kaleidoscope of colour, movement but no sound. Really spectacular. It was the end for me I knew but I felt nothing. Then I was in a car park and everyone was getting on buses to go somewhere but I didn't think in the dream it was an afterlife destination. Now I do.
    Also there was a little boy I found nearby in a stream but he had died. When I picked him up he turned into some kind of insect that flew away
    I try to write every detail if I can. Where do they come from is what amazes me. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  20. malf

    malf Member

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