Kevin Annett, On the Nature of Evil |439|

#41
something I've noticed is those who are evil, that is the ones who will try to harm others if the opportunity presents itself seem to actually enjoy it. Some will keep their dirty deeds to themselves. Others will gloat with their like minded friends about how they, "Stuck it to someone." But it remains my belief that during the course of one of the evil person's many lives his God given intuition finally awakens him and he begins to feel the pain he is causing others. That is his first step toward Redemption. It is in this last lifetime that he, with God's help in changing his ways and bearing the trials of his karmic debt, will at his bodily death be fit to rejoin The Source. To enter the Godhead as we all eventually do.
I always think of the stories from the near-death experiences about experience in all actions from the perspective of the other :)
 
#42
Agreed... But this is tricky, eh? I keep coming back to the question of complicity... can I acknowledge that the evil I see is a reflection of my own evil still move forward to transcend / transmuted it both internally and externally?
Alex,
Complicity sort of assumes that evil is created by humans and is not a force that exists outside of us. I don't think that is a safe assumption by any measure.

To the extent that we are "complicit" by giving in to evil sometimes, we must not become paralyzed by guilt. To do so is to succumb to a trick that evil frequently uses, "Hey your just like me. So how can you accuse me? We're in this together".

It's BS.

I think that degree matters. I have done some things I'm not proud of and have worked to correct the character and/or spiritual defects within me that gave rise to those actions, but I have never murdered anyone, never conned or robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never harmed a child; nor would I. Have you? Would you really? So what is the "we" stuff?
 
#43
What I'm talking about is evil that cannot be understood. That goes beyond human foibles and weakness. Evil that is deliberate and persistent; deadly at times, but always seeks to kill the target's very soul.
I really appreciate the distinction you're making here... not saying that I totally understand how it all works... but I totally understand the distinction and I think everybody does. what always peeves mean people don't acknowledge that there's this other level of evil.
 
#44
As far as I'm aware there were no actual murders of molestation victims but I gather there was collective priest abuse of some of the young, under privileged male victims. Later there were some suicides by victims, and priests upon being accused and charged. Oddly there was not one actual conviction. No priest went to prison.
there were reports of murder. see murderbydecree.com
 
#45
I really appreciate the distinction you're making here... not saying that I totally understand how it all works... but I totally understand the distinction and I think everybody does. what always peeves mean people don't acknowledge that there's this other level of evil.
Alex,
I don't know how it all works either. Glad you understand what I'm saying b/c I get peeved over it too. I think that failing the distinction really drives a lot of maladaptive thinking and behavior in our society.
 
#46
Interesting interview and discussion—so glad when folks don’t shy away from the most challenging issues!

Has anyone looked into the various claims against Kevin? Of course I find him courageous in doing this work and facing down such enormous institutions as the church and state, honorable and impressive. If that’s actually what’s happening. But here’s one of several who say that’s not what he’s doing, and b/c they are also putting their name/face/reputation on the line, I figure they are worth hearing out. This one is Rachael Kavanagh.

What do y’all think?

 
#47
Interesting interview and discussion—so glad when folks don’t shy away from the most challenging issues!

Has anyone looked into the various claims against Kevin? Of course I find him courageous in doing this work and facing down such enormous institutions as the church and state, honorable and impressive. If that’s actually what’s happening. But here’s one of several who say that’s not what he’s doing, and b/c they are also putting their name/face/reputation on the line, I figure they are worth hearing out. This one is Rachael Kavanagh.

What do y’all think?

thx for this. not sure what to make of the back-and-forth infighting within this group. maybe kevin isn't a perfect human being, but I don't see any substantial push back on the main issues.

moreover, threw the longer lens of history his "wild"accusations about sex trafficking in the catholic church seemed quite credible.
 
#48
To answer Alex’s questions: I believe it is absolutely imperative that each one of us stand up to what we see as evil and that as soon as we do not, especially as adults, we are complicit. As the adage goes, it’s no wonder to me at all that evil is triumphing, because it’s SO rare to see folks stand up, even against the small things. I can also imagine what Kevin is going through, because I agree with another adage—once you stand up to evil you find you’ve got both hands tied and are blind in one eye—or something like that! He’s absolutely correct about how whistleblowers are generally treated, and not just by the evil-doers. There’s the a whole slew of flying monkeys to contend with, the minions of the evil-doers, who know how deeply complicit they are and rely on plausible deniability and scapegoats.

The issue I see is the system is so inverted that just to bring up ethics is confusing to folks. It’s like in the hilarious first part of Idiocracy (before they lost the plot) “there you go with the fag talk again” ! LOL!

Now I don’t agree with Kevin’s assessment that we are all capable of great evil the likes of the SS or whoever. I believe there’s such a thing as moral superiority and those driven toward it belong in roles of leadership in our world. The opposite has happened, precisely because so few stand up to evil, or model virtue. It’s very ‘uncool’.

Clearly the pedophilia is happening and it’s a vast conspiracy of the most evil order. We don’t need Kevin to know that! We don’t even need to know the many dozens of other whistleblowers to know that, because we can look at the magazines and billboards and TV and films and ads and see very clearly children are being exploited. If that’s what happens in front of the camera, you don’t need much imagination to KNOW what must then be going on behind closed doors.

I intend to read Kevin’s book in order to get a better picture of his journey and his discoveries. One thing in the interview, which prompted me to look for his detractors, was his tone (and the fact that I don’t agree exactly on his view of the nature of evil.) He speaks without a trace of empathy in his voice when talking about some really vile things. This happens often with dissociation. I actually had to turn off the interview twice to regain my rationality after hearing his matter-of-fact tone, which concerns me that he has actually become detached, (disillusioned too even?) maybe too much so to make a positive impact at this point. This is not to belittle his work and effort AT ALL, but just to say, could there be some burnout now (and who’s to blame him that with all he’s had to battle with so little support!) that is actually contributing to him not being as effective, or even attracting the wrong kind of support and doubt?

Anyway, if more folks would fight the small battles they’d get a clue how huge the big battles are, and I applaud anyone approaching them with such conviction and courage as Kevin seems to be, going on his word and interviews. Though I’d keep digging for myself before donating! :)

Here’s a great podcast on standing up to evil, in small ways. Some very interesting commentary too, demonstrating how divided and confused our culture is when it comes to ethics.

 
#49
On this topic of “Western guilt”; I think it could/should be rebranded as “human guilt.” Since the dawn of time men have been killing and exploiting each other. White people, black people, purple people, pink people, men, women etc. The natives were killing each other over hunting grounds and the Aztecs were killing and enslaving other Central American tribes before whitey came over. African tribes were killing and subjugating each other before the slave trade. What happened was that Europeans developed technology that allowed them to be more efficient at it so they were able to bring their brand of it overseas. And we’re still dealing with the fallout of it because we’re still experiencing the consequences of it and so it’s right in our faces. That’s why the Western version is currently at the forefront. And it should be talked about and dealt with, because it IS wrong. But it’s not unique to white people or Westerners.
This is a really good point, and I disagree. The guilt SHOULD NOT be unique to white people/Westerners, but it is.
No other peoples are being singled out as enslavers, killers, occupiers, colonists, thought they all are. So, why are white folk being scapegoated? That’s what’s really happening on the global stage.
 
#50
thx for this. not sure what to make of the back-and-forth infighting within this group. maybe kevin isn't a perfect human being, but I don't see any substantial push back on the main issues.

moreover, threw the longer lens of history his "wild"accusations about sex trafficking in the catholic church seemed quite credible.
Alex, I tend to favor Westall over the anti-Annett smears. Here is a recent Westall endorsement: in a Jan 2020 interview. (There are crazy smears going on, including the claim that in this interview Sarah is a clone. Annett is claimed to be an alien at another anti-Annett website, a website which carried the R. Kavanagh video).


Annett interview with Sarah Westall Jan 2020.
 
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#51
One word: Wetiko. Love the account of what Native Americans did with child abusers; i.e. got rid of them in the forest. Sign of the times when instead of "the forest" our child abusers get spirited away (with their wealth) out of their jail cells into some hideaway place (i.e. Epstein). What Annett is describing is our greatest modern challenge to overcome - accepting the evil within ourselves to enable us to accept it in others (i.e. the Vatican).
Do you have any actual evidence that Epstein is still alive? I am pretty sure he was murdered to keep him from talking.

David
 
#52
This is a really good point, and I disagree. The guilt SHOULD NOT be unique to white people/Westerners, but it is.
No other peoples are being singled out as enslavers, killers, occupiers, colonists, thought they all are. So, why are white folk being scapegoated? That’s what’s really happening on the global stage.
Spot on! Indeed I have heard that some Arabs and even some black people facilitated the slave trade (presumably for money).

I also totally oppose the idea that guilt can be passed on to future generations.

David
 
#53
Spot on! Indeed I have heard that some Arabs and even some black people facilitated the slave trade (presumably for money).

I also totally oppose the idea that guilt can be passed on to future generations.

David
I would not be opposed to ‘acknowledging pain’ which is not the same thing as accepting blame. But the notion that whites were exclusively responsible for the slave trade is totally laughable. Even in this area of Texas where there were slaves, the actually history is so far from the official narrative. The political agenda was very different from the lived experience. Blacks owned slaves, too. The slave history here is completely distorted, it was always a class issue before a race issue, as it still is. The north needed money and resources, in order to continue to support the crown and the oligarchy. The civil war was about taxation, not slavery. And, there are no ‘race wars’ here, and there really never was. The original settlers were roped into schemes by the Freemasons (and other brotherhoods, I’m sure) who were vying for total control of resources, that’s the real history of the so-called Civil War, and every other war to date, seems to me.
 
#54
One word: Wetiko. Love the account of what Native Americans did with child abusers; i.e. got rid of them in the forest. Sign of the times when instead of "the forest" our child abusers get spirited away (with their wealth) out of their jail cells into some hideaway place (i.e. Epstein). What Annett is describing is our greatest modern challenge to overcome - accepting the evil within ourselves to enable us to accept it in others (i.e. the Vatican).
This was actually one of the 3 anecdotes that made me suspicious. Whether or not Native Americans did simply rid themselves of abusers by offing them in the forest does not address the right question—Was this an effective strategy? That’s the question. Who gives a crap what anyone does about anything if it doesn’t actually work, right?

So, therefore, we have a law, with courts, and a system that is supposed to protect the innocent. I agree it’s not functioning correctly. The courts aren’t working any better than the Native American attempts, because we still have an escalating issue. And, ‘accepting evil’ is probably the biggest problem right there, too many are just accepting it. It’s like, well, I’m just a little bit morbidly obese, not a problem!

Stop accepting evil, in yourself and others, how about that, for starters?!
 
#55
I think that degree matters. I have done some things I'm not proud of and have worked to correct the character and/or spiritual defects within me that gave rise to those actions, but I have never murdered anyone, never conned or robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never harmed a child; nor would I. Have you? Would you really? So what is the "we" stuff?
Well society rather arbitrarily divides killing people into killing in warfare and murder (plus some other categories). That leaves me with some doubt -
can we imagine scenarios in which murder would be acceptable, and maybe even harming children and rape. I dare say there are people in the former Yugoslavia who are still trying to straighten out exactly those issues after the civil war there.

We have the advantage of living in more peaceful countries - and let's hope they remain peaceful.

David
 
#57
The 2 other anecdotes from the interview that cause some alarm for me in how they were approached. When Kevin recounts the story of the former Mormon child who was so excited for her father to return home each day, even though that meant she would be raped by him, it’s almost like he wants to excuse the father b/c the child was confused as to what care and protection entail. Certainly an excited child, like an excited pet, might encourage a predator. But b/c of the lack of context to the story, and the lack of critical thinking applied through psychology to this sort of behavior, we don’t get that this child is clearly experiencing Stockholm Syndrome.

Then when he speaks about the boys from his childhood who would break the backs of the prairie dogs, and laugh as they suffered and tried to get away, we get another real impression of who he is relating to, and what from his past might be creating trauma he’s dissociated from. This might be ‘normal’ among boys, but it’s not natural. It’s been normalized for sure, but torturing creatures is not just natural behavior and if Kevin was watching this and doing nothing, or even participating, this might be why he is so driven now to protect the innocent, because he did not so so then, when he could have such a direct and immediate effect for them. That this is presented as somehow ‘normal’ by him, just part of life, is truly very far from the experience of most folks. Had I ever witnessed such torture of animals, I’d been screaming from the rooftops, even at age 6, and especially by age 11. So, he normalizes very abnormal childhood experience, which is clearly about trauma.

Are your children abusing animals??? Big sign, folks, don’t need Dr. Phil to tell y’all that, eh?!
 
#58
The 2 other anecdotes from the interview that cause some alarm for me in how they were approached. When Kevin recounts the story of the former Mormon child who was so excited for her father to return home each day, even though that meant she would be raped by him, it’s almost like he wants to excuse the father b/c the child was confused as to what care and protection entail. Certainly an excited child, like an excited pet, might encourage a predator. But b/c of the lack of context to the story, and the lack of critical thinking applied through psychology to this sort of behavior, we don’t get that this child is clearly experiencing Stockholm Syndrome.

Then when he speaks about the boys from his childhood who would break the backs of the prairie dogs, and laugh as they suffered and tried to get away, we get another real impression of who he is relating to, and what from his past might be creating trauma he’s dissociated from. This might be ‘normal’ among boys, but it’s not natural. It’s been normalized for sure, but torturing creatures is not just natural behavior and if Kevin was watching this and doing nothing, or even participating, this might be why he is so driven now to protect the innocent, because he did not so so then, when he could have such a direct and immediate effect for them. That this is presented as somehow ‘normal’ by him, just part of life, is truly very far from the experience of most folks. Had I ever witnessed such torture of animals, I’d been screaming from the rooftops, even at age 6, and especially by age 11. So, he normalizes very abnormal childhood experience, which is clearly about trauma.

Are your children abusing animals??? Big sign, folks, don’t need Dr. Phil to tell y’all that, eh?!
I had the same reaction about the prairies dogs story. The is NOT normal behavior for kids, is it a sign of emerging psychopathy.
 
#59
I’m curious to know if anyone here can imagine a situation where rape, or child abuse, might not be considered evil.
Restraining a violent child would be considered self-protection, so this would not count.
Well unfortunately rape has been used as a weapon of war - presumably to demoralise and subjugate an enemy population. I think war is the real problem in distinguishing evil from more normal behaviour. Think of the process of dropping even one nuclear bomb on a city. It seems impossible to justify, yet the US did it twice, and the justification was that it would shorten the war and save lives. If you can contemplate that act, including considering the children living far enough from the explosion not to be killed instantaneously, where is the dividing line?

David
 
#60
The issue I see is the system is so inverted that just to bring up ethics is confusing to folks.
great point... seems like there's a collective numbness... it's understandable, but I do think we have to resist it.


Clearly the pedophilia is happening and it’s a vast conspiracy of the most evil order. We don’t need Kevin to know that!
agreed... even just a few years ago this was not acknowledged. despite whatever else we might think about kevin he deserves enormous credit for being one of the few people on the right side of this issue from the beginning... rather stunning really.

Anyway, if more folks would fight the small battles they’d get a clue how huge the big battles are, and I applaud anyone approaching them with such conviction and courage as Kevin seems to be, going on his word and interviews. Though I’d keep digging for myself before donating! :)

Here’s a great podcast on standing up to evil, in small ways. Some very interesting commentary too, demonstrating how divided and confused our culture is when it comes to ethics.

totally get your point... then again, one could turn it around and say we should start with the big stuff. I hate to get into parenting because I've made 5 million mistakes and still counting, but I agree the kid needs to get her pencil back :)
 
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