Kevin Day, Navy UFO Contact After-Effects |403|

Hey Alice, Americans write sh*t. I thought Aussies said shit. I am interested in your comment about ET. Can we chat?
Lol, thanks for that reality check! I usually do say shit, and lots more, but am currently in awe of you so was being polite! My fear again, new to skeptiko too, but should have known better..honesty it is.

Also bit contaminated by too long in UK and find myself in NZ, where I seem to offend, sometimes without even opening my mouth. I love and miss you aussie 'sibs' and feel a deep psychological resonance with your sunshine minds, just can't take the (relentless) heat.
 
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The will to be, yes that's strong and emotions are seen as weak.
That's another distortion. Emotions are strong and actually dominate human awareness in a valid way. The idea that we are ruled by intellect is a complete fiction. The psychologist Jonathan Haidt has written some useful books - The Happiness Hypothesis is especially useful. Our sense of self is, at best, a rider on an elephant of emotions and impulses we are scarcely aware of.

In fact we have been induced to discount emotions. They come from the heart and are fundamental to our being. Intellectual stuff from the head is peripheral in actuality. Our spiritual life should blend heart and head in sensible harmony. But that happens only sometimes because we don't know how to think that harmony into being.
 
Hey Alice, Americans write sh*t. I thought Aussies said shit. I am interested in your comment about ET. Can we chat?
I'd LOVE to chat, tho it's 3.22am. I think it was being lent that goddam movie, the 4th dimension(?) by someone who knew I had an interest in ETs. But I'm scared of ghosts too, I don't know why..and night-time spectrophobia probably from childhood folk beliefs
That's another distortion. Emotions are strong and actually dominate human awareness in a valid way. The idea that we are ruled by intellect is a complete fiction. The psychologist Jonathan Haidt has written some useful books - The Happiness Hypothesis is especially useful. Our sense of self is, at best, a rider on an elephant of emotions and impulses we are scarcely aware of.

In fact we have been induced to discount emotions. They come from the heart and are fundamental to our being. Intellectual stuff from the head is peripheral in actuality. Our spiritual life should blend heart and head in sensible harmony. But that happens only sometimes because we don't know how to think that harmony into being.
Yes, they are persistently diminished in value while being demonstrably very significant.
I loved hearing that more information goes from the heart to the brain than brain to heart, there's the science if it's needed
 
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Lol, thanks for that reality check! I usually do say shit, and lots more, but am currently in awe of you so was being polite! My fear again, new to skeptiko too, but should have known better..honesty it is.
OMG! You will get used to Skeptiko. Politeness come from being comfortable - and a deliberate determination be not be offensive. But now and then something explicit is appropriate - beyond the ridiculous American habit of pretending they are not swearing when everybody knows that they are. Its a fucking silly affectation they indulge in. :)

It is my goal to corrupt them and make them as vulgar as Underlanders are. That would be so refreshing.
 
In total, agreement. Evidence is what we say it is. Kind of Alice in Wonderland stuff really. In the midst of my psychic crisis I was considered mad by professionals. I disagreed and I was turned out to be right. So much for their expertise. They thought I would be on medication the rest of my life. No. I was never on it. I have been with my current employer since December 2001 and I am respected as a high performing staff member. Me 1, Experts Zip.

The evidence of madness was predicated upon utterly flawed premises that conformed to a set of assumptions not based on any actual evidence. It was a belief system, not a science. But it masqueraded as a science because people had faith in the status of professionals - but no knowledge. Once we started to gain an understanding of psychiatry and get real knowledge its toxic impact on individual lives became apparent. Yes, it got the really mad, but it also got the innocent.

I had bona fide paranormal experiences that scared the crap out of me. In a moment of desperation I sought aid from people who knowledge of the human psyche scarcely passes muster - even now. I escaped that interaction without too much damage.

In 2008 I came down with GBS (google it). In September that year my family was invited to agree I should be consigned to a nursing home. They did not. A year later I was back at work full time. Still am - almost a decade later.

So what is evidence? It ain't what you think it is. It ain't what you believe it is. Were it otherwise I'd be crazy and confined to a nursing home.

I mean this very seriously, be very careful what you accept as evidence and as true. There is a very good chance it isn't and it ain't.

These days I chair an employee disability network and I work with people who have been through traumatic experiences of being denied respect and response to their needs. Somebody has always determined 'evidence' favour of not being responsive and compassionate. Seemingly rational people make cruel and irrational choices and assert that they had 'evidence' to justify their actions. They didn't, but they can't see that.

You can't separate head from heart. No matter how good the head is, if the heart has been poisoned, the head will exhibit toxic thought.
Me too, recommended for mental institution-time, by my own family(!) based on their (unqualified) 'evidence'..scared the sh*t out of me. Then again the whole subject of ET terrifies me, wonder if that's a valid intuition?
I am wondering what you guys think of this:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-deep-state/schizophrenia-possession-and-tI3pfTzCZRN/
as I'm considering doing a series on this topic. my plan at this point is to stay very focused on criminals who suffer from schizophrenia. any thoughts?
 
thx for this great summary. more re Valle Davis effects:
http://ufoupdateslist.com/2003/nov/m07-015.shtml

Jacques F. Vallee and Eric W. Davis
National Institute for Discovery Science
Las Vegas, Nevada



Abstract

The main argument presented in this paper is that continuing
study of unidentified aerial phenomena ("UAP"), including
"apparitions" of a religious or spiritual nature, may offer an
existence theorem for new models of physical reality.


The current SETI paradigm and its "assumption of mediocrity"
place restrictions on forms of non-human intelligence that may
be researched in our environment.


A similar bias exists in the ufologists' often-stated hypothesis
that UAP, if real, must represent space visitors.


Observing that both models are biased by anthropomorphism, the
authors attempt to clarify the issues surrounding "high
strangeness" observations by distinguishing six layers of
information that can be derived from anomalous events, namely


(1) physical manifestations,
(2) anti-physical effects,
(3) psychological factors,
(4) physiological factors,
(5) psychic effects and
(6) cultural effects.


In a further step they propose a framework for scientific
analysis of unidentified phenomena that takes into account the
incommensurability problem.
Hi Alex
There is a low strangeness even investigating this subject, for e.g. the 'tapping' break in your interview and my first click on this link got an invite to clean my mac, then an ad for shoes..? Further info on the Vallee/Davis 6 levels also curiously hard to find.

It seems to me that our govt's ufo/uap dept 'authorities' are a mean bunch who like to keep info and their purported fossil-fuelled-mentality flying constructions to themselves, while none of that explains how the ETs move so fast. Or they have 'an agenda' that doesn't include us, the public. That in itself inspires an uncomfortable element of fabricated mystery, and I despise them for dragging me into their murky little paradigm of secrecy and fear. "Something is coming" yet we're still not told what. It creates apprehension of the unknown and leads to irrational speculation, cultish anxieties, tho (yay for artist's) sometimes creative and entertaining but materialistically limited projections. And when the anticipated event/object comes no closer, generally public lassitude sets in.

This seems a very effective way of again saying nothing and I'm not dissing Kevin, he's a brave man and in very deep. No surprise tho, coming from a domineering Govt 'cult' operating within a self-created paradigm of warfare, repressive hierarchy and ignorance (same old) As someone said, if the ETs wanted to kill us, they could have done so easily by now. The more insidious threat that any one of these 6 levels is potential as invasion in the form of investigative surgery, compulsory sex or mental manipulation is so terrifying to me that I can't look at it. But some humans do all these things, just with a less awful level of sophisticated technique.

I like the Tinkerbell theory cited by Ohiogardenerimy. Maybe there will be full clarity and understanding by a collective change of our perception, as when the hidden 3d image becomes apparent once our eyes adjust to a new way of seeing (and perhaps the crop circles have a part in that) But that is down to us, and we don't need the govts to tell us what they don't know how to do themselves.
 
I am wondering what you guys think of this:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-deep-state/schizophrenia-possession-and-tI3pfTzCZRN/
as I'm considering doing a series on this topic. my plan at this point is to stay very focused on criminals who suffer from schizophrenia. any thoughts?
Hits close to home. I was misdiagnosed with schizoaffective disorder by a psychiatrist who was trained at the university my sister failed to be accepted to -- Southwestern University. Incidently, she had a vision of being at A&M, where she later converted to mormonism - and also got her masters degree in chemistry, consistent with that vision.

Years later she was diagnosed with bipolar schizophrenia. I say forget the diagnosis and focus on the tormenting voices. If there was any insight in how to transform the voices into something helpful and positive, like biofeedback, I would find that useful.

Incidentally, I never heard voices. I had a brain scan indicating there were no biological indication of schizophrenia related problems. The diagnosis did not change. I have a lot more to say on this, but its summarized as 'try to help'.
 
I am wondering what you guys think of this:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-deep-state/schizophrenia-possession-and-tI3pfTzCZRN/
as I'm considering doing a series on this topic. my plan at this point is to stay very focused on criminals who suffer from schizophrenia. any thoughts?
I LOVE schizophrenia, there are messages there alright. I loved R D Laing's the Divided Self. Michael might like to hear there is a european(?) Romany term "Divvy" to describe someone mad, tho now generally applied to your average air-head, longer-meaning 'to be possessed by the Divine' or the Divine speaking through them. Will give myself some time to look at the link thank you
 
Hits close to home. I was misdiagnosed with schizoaffective disorder by a psychiatrist who was trained at the university my sister failed to be accepted to -- Southwestern University. Incidently, she had a vision of being at A&M, where she later converted to mormonism - and also got her masters degree in chemistry, consistent with that vision.

Years later she was diagnosed with bipolar schizophrenia. I say forget the diagnosis and focus on the tormenting voices. If there was any insight in how to transform the voices into something helpful and positive, like biofeedback, I would find that useful.

Incidentally, I never heard voices. I had a brain scan indicating there were no biological indication of schizophrenia related problems. The diagnosis did not change. I have a lot more to say on this, but its summarized as 'try to help'.
They used to burn us, then they invented labels
 
They used to burn us, then they invented labels
My sister is being tormented from within. Somedays I believe this reality is a game or a play. I don't believe it. It's just useful. So maybe externalizing the voices might be helpful for her.

I wish I knew the natural variance of outcomes. Suicide is a real risk. She has told me so. Read the research. Being a psychiatrist is a dangerous job, especially within a prison or mental health facility. So schizophrenics can be dangerous. She needs help. There is no help. No cause, no answers.
 
My sister is being tormented from within. Somedays I believe this reality is a game or a play. I don't believe it. It's just useful. So maybe externalizing the voices might be helpful for her.

I wish I knew the natural variance of outcomes. Suicide is a real risk. She has told me so. Read the research. Being a psychiatrist is a dangerous job, especially within a prison or mental health facility. So schizophrenics can be dangerous. She needs help. There is no help. No cause, no answers.
R D Laing who wrote The Divided Self said that the most sane people were those who couldn't or wouldn't go along with this insane world. I'm not qualified and don't know how it is for your sister, but I'm also not convinced that psychiatrists have the answer, they seem stuck in their own professional concepts, too conventional and trying to 'normalise' everyone. I think we must stop trying to fit into narrow, fictional 'ideals'. If there is emotion, anger or tears, there is a need not being met, the frustration of that must drive people to react, and if that's dangerous for a psychiatrist it makes me think they've missed something, such as treating people with honesty and true respect.

When I 'heard' things in my head it was usually some critical, self-abusive comment but I eventually practiced recognising it, detaching and evaluating if it was a fair comment I agreed with and needed to work on or was unreasonable and nonsense. Some days I just say "nope, not listening to that". It is hard and very scary trying to make sense of your mind, with your mind, and takes time. Now I have few only very trusted friends, can't take dishonesty or any sense of an alternative agenda with people, and took a vow to love respect and trust my Self. I actually enjoy being with my self and we often have a laugh! Recovering self-worth in your own eyes is a first and vital step.

The times I didn't want to go on, I always had someone who would be devastated (currently it is my daughter) which always stops me contemplating that 'option'. You sound like a lovely brother, I'm sure it is you she'd stay alive for, don't be afraid to let her know that, it's just not an option, she has a responsibility to you and your happiness, as well as to her Self, I'm sure she knows this. As we get older, we get better even at this game called life. We learn ways to get through. I dance or consult my I Ching which makes me have to meditate. It is my intuition that has the answers.

This must all sound very lightweight in the face of powerful trauma that has led to your sister's torment, but remember all things pass, even emotional states only last 90 seconds if we sit and make friends with their innate wisdom. Deep down we know ourselves better than anyone else does and know best how to love who we are.
 
I am wondering what you guys think of this:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-deep-state/schizophrenia-possession-and-tI3pfTzCZRN/
as I'm considering doing a series on this topic. my plan at this point is to stay very focused on criminals who suffer from schizophrenia. any thoughts?
This is complex. Check out spirit releasement therapy. I have been involved in a bit of this and it is quite real. I have no doubt that folk are beset by parasitic agents and this can lead to misdiagnoses of mental illness. Schizophrenia is often the diagnosis an individual is tagged with when they are not in control of what is going on. It is one thing to have wild stuff happening and another thing to lose control. If psychiatric diagnoses stuck to the issue of control and not the wild stuff we would all be far better off.

It is better to help a person regain control instead of pumping them full of drugs - but because the premise of psychiatry is that this wild stuff is not real, and believing it is nuts the option of actually helping the 'patient' does not arise.

I do not believe schizophrenia is real thing - just a delusion. A criminal might be possessed or controlled an induced to perform unlawful acts - and may be in a complete emotional mess (traumatised and with their rational development grossly impeded as well). But mad? Maybe not.

I had a quick look at the link and my BS detector came off standby. I'd need to look a lot deeper - but first up impression is - nah.
 
They used to burn us, then they invented labels
And drugs and nice supported accommodation facilities with high walls. The psychiatric model comes out of a medical model - where there is a presumption of illness based upon a complete rejection of our metaphysical aspects - and hence has no grounding in any proper sense of reality. Its quite mad, really.

Of course there are some people who are traumatised and in crisis, and who are a danger to themselves and others. There are those who are so messed up there is little prospect of recovery without a far deeper skill level that psychiatry can offer. I know that psychiatry is the accepted go to modality. I think it is crude and ignorant, even when there really isn't any option for most people - and it is doing 'the best it can'.

It wasn't a valid response to burn people who see the world differently and it ain't a valid response to label them, drug them or lock them up - but it is what we have done routinely for many years.

I have seen the awful outcomes of psychiatry over the years - and it is not an area I deal with peacefully without a struggle.
 
This is complex. Check out spirit releasement therapy. I have been involved in a bit of this and it is quite real. I have no doubt that folk are beset by parasitic agents and this can lead to misdiagnoses of mental illness. Schizophrenia is often the diagnosis an individual is tagged with when they are not in control of what is going on. It is one thing to have wild stuff happening and another thing to lose control. If psychiatric diagnoses stuck to the issue of control and not the wild stuff we would all be far better off.

It is better to help a person regain control instead of pumping them full of drugs - but because the premise of psychiatry is that this wild stuff is not real, and believing it is nuts the option of actually helping the 'patient' does not arise.

I do not believe schizophrenia is real thing - just a delusion. A criminal might be possessed or controlled an induced to perform unlawful acts - and may be in a complete emotional mess (traumatised and with their rational development grossly impeded as well). But mad? Maybe not.

I had a quick look at the link and my BS detector came off standby. I'd need to look a lot deeper - but first up impression is - nah.
Yeah, nah. I agree with you Michael about the blindness of conventional treatment, but possession sounds like annulment of sovereignty, a belief in 'them vs us' and assume victim status. Better to teach how to resist perhaps by refuting it.
 
Yeah, nah. I agree with you Michael about the blindness of conventional treatment, but possession sounds like annulment of sovereignty, a belief in 'them vs us' and assume victim status. Better to teach how to resist perhaps by refuting it.
The schizos need treatment, but mediums are supposedly mostly happy because their voices are helpful.

In short, if negative entities feed off our misery, why not all of our emotions? Wouldn't you want the panacea and the poison? You can't control what you don't understand. We feel free but we lack the knowledge to be free. Victim status is just another narrative.
 
I am wondering what you guys think of this:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-deep-state/schizophrenia-possession-and-tI3pfTzCZRN/
as I'm considering doing a series on this topic. my plan at this point is to stay very focused on criminals who suffer from schizophrenia. any thoughts?
Hi Alex
Im busy doing hypnosis studies at the moment and it ties in a lot with this as there is a branch of hypnosis that is dedicated to spirit possession
or should I say depossession.
I could get some info for you if you want to get sucked down that hole... the only way I can make any real sense of it is by doing the
Idea thing (bernado) or the Big Toe thing(Campbell) to protect the mind from spirits and demons, it gets crazy but interesting.
Blaise
 
The schizos need treatment, but mediums are supposedly mostly happy because their voices are helpful.

In short, if negative entities feed off our misery, why not all of our emotions? Wouldn't you want the panacea and the poison? You can't control what you don't understand. We feel free but we lack the knowledge to be free. Victim status is just another narrative.
Jeez I must sound like such a bitch. When I say I love schizophrenia, I mean I feel deeply moved to compassion for that struggle for identity and integration. Not that I love the state or wish it on anyone. I would love to understand it better. It seems like a desire to honestly be or communicate who we are, however fragmented or overwhelmed. The 'high' state of say bipolar doesn't move me so much, even if it is perceived as good by the person feeling it. I can't enter into their euphoria as it feels too much like egotism, tho I think that must be in a bid to counteract the dreadful lows. But then I perceive all 'realities' as valid because they exist and deserve to be communicated with. Denial or suicidal 'escape' are dead ends and pointless.

To me it is complicating an already overwrought state to say it is possession by entities from without. Perhaps Medium's perception that their voices are positive helps in containing their influence, tho I think they too have to exercise some protection of the original self, who is the true sovereign.

I once lived in a house previously lived in by partakers of the dread Heroin (a cold and 'closed' drug from the outside, however much it is experienced as warm and fuzzy from within) and it felt possessed. So i had to assert my greater right as current and living inhabitant. Tho I painted my room black as if to embrace the dark (also effective in covering up the candle smoke and vomit stains) it was on my terms. Other and younger people living there didn't escape its ill-influence as well as I did. It didn't feel like control, I just thought "I'm the boss"
 
Jeez I must sound like such a bitch. When I say I love schizophrenia, I mean I feel deeply moved to compassion for that struggle for identity and integration. Not that I love the state or wish it on anyone. I would love to understand it better. It seems like a desire to honestly be or communicate who we are, however fragmented or overwhelmed. The 'high' state of say bipolar doesn't move me so much, even if it is perceived as good by the person feeling it. I can't enter into their euphoria as it feels too much like egotism, tho I think that must be in a bid to counteract the dreadful lows. But then I perceive all 'realities' as valid because they exist and deserve to be communicated with. Denial or suicidal 'escape' are dead ends and pointless.

To me it is complicating an already overwrought state to say it is possession by entities from without. Perhaps Medium's perception that their voices are positive helps in containing their influence, tho I think they too have to exercise some protection of the original self, who is the true sovereign.

I once lived in a house previously lived in by partakers of the dread Heroin (a cold and 'closed' drug from the outside, however much it is experienced as warm and fuzzy from within) and it felt possessed. So i had to assert my greater right as current and living inhabitant. Tho I painted my room black as if to embrace the dark (also effective in covering up the candle smoke and vomit stains) it was on my terms. Other and younger people living there didn't escape its ill-influence as well as I did. It didn't feel like control, I just thought "I'm the boss"
Its a disease that can devastate personality. I know what you meant. It's all good.
 
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