Mark Gober, Dispelling Upside Down Thinking in Favor of Extended Consciousness |420|

#41
But take caution here. Even her 'coming clean' is not to be trusted at all. There is a principle called

Road to Damascus Fraud - a person of weak integrity, who is seduced by one philosophy and extols it through practices of vehemency, virtue or deception, who then switches to the exact opposite philosophy and thereafter uses similar tactics and/or intensity of fanaticism - is not to be trusted. They have not 'seen the light'. Their conversion is not evidence of validity of their latter philosophy, nor evidence of the invalidity of the former.​
Thank you for this.

Michael Prescott has a few articles about the Fox Sisters on his blog:
Along the way, Kate and Maggie fell on hard times, became alcoholics, and eventually recanted their claims of psychic powers, saying that their act was fraudulent. Still later, they withdrew their confessions and said they had been pressured into admitting to fraud in exchange for monetary compensation. The affair is still controversial.
https://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2006/11/toes_apoppin.html
 
#42
I don't know if this is an appropriate question for this forum but how do we have the confidence in our spiritual worldviews?
I'm speaking only for myself here, Chris, but at least one of us is not all that confident in his spiritual worldview at all. However, I do believe at our core is a tiny bit of the Great Creator Himself. What happens to us on our Earthbound journey matters to the Creator. He therefore provides an Angel companion for each one of us. This Angel will sometimes act to protect us although most of the time we may not be aware of this, we simply, "got lucky" is the usual explanation. This Angel also records our entire life as we go through it here on Earth. At life's end that recording is played back for us in what is called, "a life review" by near death experiencers. This Angel will defend us from dark harmful spirits provided we don't want such spirits in our lives. You may be able to detect the presence of your Angel if you sit very quietly in a silent room. This is God's agent for you. It's in God's interest that you make it back, "Home" when your mission here is completed. But please these are just my beliefs, it's okay to call them BS or, "fake news". A warm welcome, ~garry
 
#43
Thank you for this.

Michael Prescott has a few articles about the Fox Sisters on his blog:

https://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2006/11/toes_apoppin.html
I had a dim thought of something like this. The move against spiritualism was very strong and determined. It undermined the Church and Science in the minds of its opponents. Tackier version of it are dangerous. Joe Fisher's 'The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts' is a must read for anybody with a practical or merely armchair interest. Its a riveting read of an account of a guy who got seriously sucked into a rabbit hole of potent deception.
 
#44
I'm speaking only for myself here, Chris, but at least one of us is not all that confident in his spiritual worldview at all. However, I do believe at our core is a tiny bit of the Great Creator Himself. What happens to us on our Earthbound journey matters to the Creator. He therefore provides an Angel companion for each one of us. This Angel will sometimes act to protect us although most of the time we may not be aware of this, we simply, "got lucky" is the usual explanation. This Angel also records our entire life as we go through it here on Earth. At life's end that recording is played back for us in what is called, "a life review" by near death experiencers. This Angel will defend us from dark harmful spirits provided we don't want such spirits in our lives. You may be able to detect the presence of your Angel if you sit very quietly in a silent room. This is God's agent for you. It's in God's interest that you make it back, "Home" when your mission here is completed. But please these are just my beliefs, it's okay to call them BS or, "fake news". A warm welcome, ~garry
Thanks Garry... I have this obsession with knowing the "truth", which I know is ridiculous. It's kind of paralyzing sometimes.
 
#46
Again, this is just a personal belief; The Creator can come through to us using his creatures in nature. As you are questioning something synchronicity may manifest in a creature's peculiar behavior at the same time. Now it's up to your intuition to tell you what it means.
 
#47
I really enjoyed listening to Mark and hearing his perspective. My partner, Emily Blefeld and I were invited to the Awakened Futures Summit in San Francisco in May. It was organized by Co-Hack Life and had upwards of 400 in attendance exploring themes around Psychedelics, Technology and Meditation. Alex made reference at the end to "consciousness hacks" which were one of the main themes.

Afterwards, the main organizer, Mikey Siegel and a well-know high-tech CEO invited Emily and I to lead a 3-day deep-dive event in Lower Lake, CA August 16-18. We will be demonstrating how we integrate techniques for accessing ancestral and spirit consciousness into helping entrepreneurs, visionaries and change-agents clear the inherited blocks that stand between them and their highest intentions.

Mark's talk was very inspiring. I appreciate Alex and everything he's done to call out the intellectual dishonesty of cognitive science and psychology. Meanwhile, Emily and I are not waiting for the Skeptics to be convinced. Our formula is simple:
  1. Describe an issue or problem that's holding you back, weighing you down or blocking your path.
  2. Name your desire or intention for what you want.
  3. Eliminate the block and manifest the intention.
The Mind=Brain paradigm exists as an instrument of oppression. Leaving it behind and developing tools that integrate the findings of Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin and others into clinical tools is incredibly freeing and liberating.
 
#48
Our formula is simple
Okay Dan

I get that your formula is simple. Is your methodology just as simple? Or is it protected by some kind of commercial-in-confidence conceit such that you can't share it unless we pay? That's not meant to sound aggressive - just blunt. I am of the school that says if you can learn to figure out the right question to ask getting the answer is easy (and we share the challenge of getting the question right). You seem to present the question as a pre-ordained formula that gives no clues as to how to proceed. That's not empowering. That's a sales pitch.

Your thoughts?
 
#49
Okay Dan

I get that your formula is simple. Is your methodology just as simple? Or is it protected by some kind of commercial-in-confidence conceit such that you can't share it unless we pay? That's not meant to sound aggressive - just blunt. I am of the school that says if you can learn to figure out the right question to ask getting the answer is easy (and we share the challenge of getting the question right). You seem to present the question as a pre-ordained formula that gives no clues as to how to proceed. That's not empowering. That's a sales pitch.

Your thoughts?
Dr. Dan Booth Cohen + Emily Volden |302| - Skeptiko - Science at the ...

From my experience with dan and emily I would have to say that the methodology / protocol is straightforward and could easily be adopted/ adapted by anyone who's open to exploring how ancestral connections with the deceased might be impacting their family dynamics.
 
#50
Okay Dan

I get that your formula is simple. Is your methodology just as simple? Or is it protected by some kind of commercial-in-confidence conceit such that you can't share it unless we pay? That's not meant to sound aggressive - just blunt. I am of the school that says if you can learn to figure out the right question to ask getting the answer is easy (and we share the challenge of getting the question right). You seem to present the question as a pre-ordained formula that gives no clues as to how to proceed. That's not empowering. That's a sales pitch.

Your thoughts?
Michael -

The formula is simple. It involves accessing the consciousness that survives death in the service of the living and dead healing together. While the formula is simple, the methodology is sophisticated and takes considerable skill and expertise to apply. We are working with patterns of inherited trauma. I have a PhD in psychology and nearly 20 years of clinical experience. Emily is a superb psychotherapist and her intuitive perception is highly-tuned. We offer professional training and many graduates of our programs have successful practices.

I was trying to convey that the Mind=Brain paradigm is oppressive and finding ways to apply panpsychism in clinical practice shows great promise. Technology and investment leaders like Mark Gober, are slowly grasping the implications of this. Neo-con/Neo-liberal secularism, while a welcome antidote to religious zealotry, have brought our environment to the precipice of collapse and nearly wiped out the financial security of America's middle class. It's important that tech leaders like Mark begin to articulate a new paradigm. I applaud his association with the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

For more context, here's a snippet from our event description:

21st century digital technologies, such as iPhones, Facebook, Google and Amazon, have completely transformed the ways we live. Yet these platforms, as revolutionary as they are, can still not unravel the layers of mystery within the human heart. As people fill themselves with ever more information and one-click connections, many still feel a gnawing sense of uneasiness and lack of meaning in their core.

The deep questions about identity and existence, which traditionally were addressed communally by religion, art and culture, are now being explored through direct personal experience. Even as meditation, yoga, plant medicine journeys and indigenous spiritual practices are becoming more popular, there remains a desire to find the best practices for exploring:

  • Is our life fulfilling a larger purpose?
  • Can outward successes and inner shadows be merged into a coherent, meaningful identity?
  • How can we most effectively release inherited patterns of loss, anger, shame, and grief?
I hope this gives you additional context about what we are up to.
 
#51
I hope this gives you additional context about what we are up to.
Okay, that I get. I am familiar with engaging with dead folk, usually those hanging around and being a pain. That came about by a sudden transformation of a partner who started doing things quite unexpected. I can see the approach you are taking merits professional development. What we did was closer to Baldwin's Spirit Releasement Therapy - but not exactly. Resolving physical and emotional conditions in the living required addressing emotional conditions in the 'dead.

In working with patterns of inherited trauma are you saying these are transmitted by the deceased through influence upon the living - as with Baldwin, or some other mechanism?

  • How can we most effectively release inherited patterns of loss, anger, shame, and grief?
You will be maybe aware that these psychic states are common among dispossessed indigenous people. Have you ever done any work with indigenous people?

We profoundly need to shift our mindset out of a spirit denying culture into one that honours the continuity of consciousness - and chain of being. This is nowhere more needed than amongst conventional clinicians. It is a good thing you are doing this work.
 
#52
Resolving physical and emotional conditions in the living required addressing emotional conditions in the 'dead.

In working with patterns of inherited trauma are you saying these are transmitted by the deceased through influence upon the living - as with Baldwin, or some other mechanism?
I was not aware of Baldwin's work, but it looks very familiar. We occasionally work with depossession, but it's not really our speciality. We often refer out to other practitioners with shamanic training.

In the great majority of cases we are working along biological pathways of inheritance. Emotions, desires, traumas and fractal patterns are inherited and can be worked with phenomenologically. There's a lot of awareness of this in the latest epigenetic research. The problem is that these researchers are constrained by materialism and funded by investors needing a monetary return. Our pathways are consciousness in the sense that Alex speaks of it.

You will be maybe aware that these psychic states are common among dispossessed indigenous people. Have you ever done any work with indigenous people?
Yes. This is central to our work with the collective field. We have made several trips to Hawaii and New Zealand where we work with indigenous people. The Maori in New Zealand are very receptive. We return there next spring. Closer to home, the dispossessed indigenous people are part of the land we stand upon as US citizens. So too, are the African slaves who built the US economy. This is a consistent theme for us.

We profoundly need to shift our mindset out of a spirit denying culture into one that honours the continuity of consciousness - and chain of being. This is nowhere more needed than amongst conventional clinicians. It is a good thing you are doing this work.
Now that's a sales pitch! :)

Thanks for your questions and insights.
 
#53
Interestingly 2 of the 3 fox sisters supposedly relied upon as mediums by Alan Kardec admitting to being frauds, having wrote the following-

"That I have been chiefly instrumental in perpetrating the fraud of Spiritualism upon a too-confiding public, most of you doubtless know. The greatest sorrow in my life has been that this is true, and though it has come late in my day, I am now prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God! . . I am here tonight as one of the founders of Spiritualism to denounce it as an absolute falsehood from beginning to end, as the flimsiest of superstitions, the most wicked blasphemy known to the world." – Margaretta Fox Kane, quoted in A.B. Davenport, The Deathblow to Spiritualism, p. 76. (Also see New York World, for October 21, 1888 and New York Herald and New York Daily Tribune, for October 22, 1888.) "I regard Spiritualism as one of the greatest curses that the world has ever known." – Katie Fox Jencken, New York Herald, October 9, 1888.
Spiritualism is a curse....and so is nilihism.
I wonder what she meant by this quote exactly?
 
#54
n the great majority of cases we are working along biological pathways of inheritance. Emotions, desires, traumas and fractal patterns are inherited and can be worked with phenomenologically. There's a lot of awareness of this in the latest epigenetic research. The problem is that these researchers are constrained by materialism and funded by investors needing a monetary return. Our pathways are consciousness in the sense that Alex speaks of it.
I think the connections between epigenetics and spirit attachment and historic events is exciting. What is the mechanism that can embed a single event memory at a genetic level and what does this do for the standard Darwinian model? My understanding of epigenetics is rudimentary but it is clear that there is some kind of receptive and adaptive mechanism that is way more active than anything the standard theory accommodates.

My theoretical model is 'animism' - an inadequate term of itself, but it has a political impact that is useful until we come up with a better one.

Yes. This is central to our work with the collective field. We have made several trips to Hawaii and New Zealand where we work with indigenous people. The Maori in New Zealand are very receptive. We return there next spring. Closer to home, the dispossessed indigenous people are part of the land we stand upon as US citizens. So too, are the African slaves who built the US economy. This is a consistent theme for us.
Have you published on this is any accessible way (comprehensible by the non specialist)? This is extraordinarily important work with global repercussions. I would assist in getting you a foothold in Australia if you do not have such a connection already.

Now that's a sales pitch!

Yeah! Well what can I say? I know exactly where you are coming from, and what you are doing is building the foundation of an intellectual revolution. Who can say how long it will take - but the important thing is that it is underway. I am excited.
 
#55
So too, are the African slaves who built the US economy. This is a consistent theme for us.
Yes, and a racist and insulting theme for those of us non-African immigrants whose greatX-grand-fathers died farming fields in their 40's or worked graveyard shift their entire lives after fighting a war, in factories to provide a better life for their kids. All of us built the US Economy - and this might indeed be what you meant. But there is a false academic trope out there which includes this verbatim talking point - and it is not an inclusive one. A lie which might fool cocooned & uneducated minds - but not those of us who possess actual records of our family history, which falsify this faddish narrative of hate.

 
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#56
Yes, and a racist and insulting theme for those of us non-African immigrants whose greatX-grand-fathers died farming fields in their 40's or worked graveyard shift their entire lives after fighting a war, in factories to provide a better life for their kids. All of us built the US Economy - and this might indeed be what you meant. But there is a false academic trope out there which includes this verbatim talking point - and it is not an inclusive one. A lie which might fool cocooned & uneducated minds - but not those of us who possess actual records of our family history, which falsify this faddish narrative of hate.
Be kind to Dan TES. You are of course right, but he was responding to something I said, with, I think, the intent in his words was a response to a narrow point, rather than a wider one.

My focus of attention was on trauma in indigenous cultures enduring dispossession crisis and existential disorientation that reverberates through generations. Dan may not have been strictly correct in saying that African slaves built the American economy, but their initial foundational role is indisputable in the context of commercial business (for export) - as opposed to the vital domestic side.

That is not to say that intergenerational trauma does not apply across a wider spectrum of people. I was interested in the traumatic depression that descends upon indigenous peoples living traditional lives who are dispossess and displaced and enter a decline that seems to pervade a culture into succeeding generations.

I think it can also hit white folk whose lives are shattered by traditional industries closing down or moving away - buts just a recent notion I have not explored. I have been reading in indigenous Australian culture recently in preparation for mandatory cultural awareness competence 'training' I have to do in October. I am resistant to doing because I don't think it has any real transformative value - so I was exploring why I thought that. I don't think that cultural competence awareness per se does not have any transformative value - just stuff that doesn't engage with a contemporary existential crisis and deals only with the recitation of unpleasant historic truths.
 
#57
Yes, and a racist and insulting theme for those of us non-African immigrants whose greatX-grand-fathers died farming fields in their 40's or worked graveyard shift their entire lives after fighting a war, in factories to provide a better life for their kids. All of us built the US Economy -
wow... nicely done. add don't forget the gender inequality angle in his well because while building the US economy men were 10 times (presently) to 20 times (in the recent past) more likely to die on the job than women.

jump those lifeboats... women first!
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#58
wow... nicely done. add don't forget the gender inequality angle in his well because while building the US economy men were 10 times (presently) to 20 times (in the recent past) more likely to die on the job than women.

jump those lifeboats... women first!
View attachment 1246
Yes,

When I conduct an infrastructure strategy for a nation, those who 'build the thing' are not simply the immediate and direct labor FTE's (Full Time Equivalents). If a nation is to upgrade its electrical power grid for instance - my teams will typically project, of course, the direct resources necessary to build and operate that grid. But as well we carry well-experienced benchmarks and proven value chain derivative indices which show the total impacts to food producers, logistics vendors, banks, schools, technical schools. educators, waste haulers, security companies, government offices, parks, roads, administrative offices, lunch places, tourism, home stability and home labor impacts, air travel demand...

What this typically shows is that everyone who works, helps build the nation. We all work together and the nation thrives. Those who choose to take income and not work, or take income and run black markets... they harm everyone - in equal share to the help that the workers provide. Even grey markets will harm a nation, if they are imbued with mafia cartels. Brazil suffers from this now for instance. I was able to conduct significant work in a Middle Eastern nation and demonstrate how nepotism/mafia was causing harm, and stood as a national security threat. They listened and changed their policies - dramatically (of course I was not the only one who presented this argument to them).

The tipping point for non-value population, before a nation can no longer sustain itself, is about 23 - 28%. Much higher if the nation sells crude oil or industrial minerals/refractories/rare earths. In that case, the non-value population can hit 40% - 50%. What socialists do, is point out nations which sell crude oil and limit immigration, and then sit back and reap the rewards and give out free lifestyles (as successes)... the world cannot live this way. Once the non-value resources hit 23 - 28% in a non-crude oil rich country - then mafia and violence ensue. Everyone is equal but destitute, except for crime bosses - and the top crime boss usually wears a uniforme.
 
#59
Be kind to Dan TES. You are of course right, but he was responding to something I said, with, I think, the intent in his words was a response to a narrow point, rather than a wider one.

My focus of attention was on trauma in indigenous cultures enduring dispossession crisis and existential disorientation that reverberates through generations.
Gotcha, will do. One idea that I have been carrying for years in my mind ---> Faithfulness is more important to an economy, than even hard work or good wages.

But I have to develop this into real examples and case studies from my work. I have plenty of case studies, as you portray here - but I want to develop this into a more down-to-earth set of coherency.
 
#60
Gotcha, will do. One idea that I have been carrying for years in my mind ---> Faithfulness is more important to an economy, than even hard work or good wages
A really off target hint here can be found in a book called Nine Lies About Work. There's a chapter on teams. Also check out
. Aubrey Blanche talks about the idea of 'belonging' in teams. This is the empirical ground of your hunch.
 
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