Massimo's [and others] Critique[s] of the New Atheist Movement

Discussion in 'Critical Discussions Among Proponents and Skeptics' started by Sciborg_S_Patel, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. http://philpapers.org/archive/PIGNAA.pdf

    I think this is a pretty well intentioned yet deservedly hard critique from Massimo, himself a more -IMO- honest skeptic as he does at least consider Mathematical Platonism. I'd often felt that Harris was incredibly lazy when it came to philosophy but my opinion was that of a layperson dipping their toes into the pool.

    It's good to see I wasn't the only one. ;)

    Beyond that, I do wonder about the education of some supposed skeptics. There seems to be a subset (unclear how large) that is enamored by the Singularity and it's supposed virtual Promised Land.

    Massimo, to an extent at least, shares this concern:

     
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  2. Curb your enthusiasm: High priests, holy writ and excommunications – how did Humanism end up acting like a religion?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2014
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  3. The Relentless Hypocrisy Of James Randi

    When Randi starts in on the ad hominem, as in the case of the man in Ahmedabad, he is happy to denigrate someone for their spiritual beliefs and attire in a way that is sadly - ironically - suggestive of anti-LGBT bigotry:

     
  4. Prof Brian Cox: physicist or priest?

     
  5. Peter Higgs criticises Richard Dawkins over anti-religious 'fundamentalism':

     
  6. Whoops. Sorry, just getting to my coffee now. :)
     
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  7. Why I am Not an Atheist: Better Apathetic Godlessness than Illiberal Scientism

     
  8. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    Yes: "New Atheism" is a movement. It is quite distinct from merely being an atheist.
     
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  9. malf

    malf Member

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    Lest we forget, The "New Athiest" movement was a reaction against the fundamentalism that religion can propagate. The timing was apropos. For balance, it is worth remembering the power and infuence of the organisations they were pushing against.
     
  10. Is meeting religious fundamentalism with materialist fundamentalism at all useful? Even Dawkins taking the term "Bright" wasn't necessarily a good thing:

    The Future is not looking so 'Bright' for Atheism

    It's questionable how much good the New Atheists did, seeing as religious fundamentalism held strong sway in America's political sphere until the '08 crash.

    If anything New Atheists may have exacerbated political divides by co-optong progressive causes and pretending they held the means to push them through. Probably why Dawkins is apparently seen as an embarrassment by the "New New Atheists" -> Richard Dawkins has lost: meet the new new atheists
     
  11. malf

    malf Member

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    Who knows? Useful to whom?
     
  12. Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

    Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Member

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    People are still debating whether bright was a good choice of terms?

    ~~ Paul
     
  13. Remembering Albert Camus and Longing for the Old Atheism

     
  14. malf

    malf Member

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    For balance, there are strident religious bigots and moderate, friendly atheists too.
     
  15. Kamarling

    Kamarling Member

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    Reminds me of some Einstein quotes:

     
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  16. malf

    malf Member

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  17. You're assuming the New Atheists have any pull at all in that region. That seems unlikely to me, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

    I'm expecting progressive Muslims, indigenous faith practitioners, and Christians to have far more impact in ensuring cultural shifts away from fundamentalism. New Atheism will probably only slow progress with its combative nature, if its members get involved at all.
     
  18. malf

    malf Member

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    Ha! I wonder why that is! And I meant "up against" more generally and ideologically, as in where a belief in the "numinous" can lead...

    Hmmm... Those other groups seem only to fuel the problems in various ways. At least "slow progress" is progress?
     
  19. Kamarling

    Kamarling Member

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    "Diddums"? You really don't want to be taken seriously do you?

    I wonder if you really believe that most religious people would condone what is happening to that woman? Or that is what belief in God means to them?

    I wonder whether most atheists would condone what happened in Tibet when the Chinese (State atheism) imposed their Cultural Revolution? Is that where non-belief in the numinous can lead?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international...-abuses-from-the-inside-in-book-a-911405.html

    Or perhaps you prefer the methods of the North Koreans when dealing with the religious?

    The point is that anyone can select extreme examples to make their point but doing so is appealing to fear and hatred to alienate the other point of view. I'm not religious either but I don't hate my neighbour because he attends church on a Sunday morning nor do I follow the rantings of Dawkins who accuses my neighbour of evil intent.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  20. Kamarling

    Kamarling Member

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    This is an article about perhaps the most prominent of the New Atheists, Richard Dawkins. The article is written by an atheist.

    Not in our name: Dawkins dresses up bigotry as non-belief - he cannot be left to represent atheists

     
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