Matthew Alper, Have Skeptics Lost Their Edge? |448|

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#62
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I agree with basically what you said. But you are totally wrong on one thing. There IS a "force". Just like energy, there is positive & negative. There are deep, dark & evil forces as well as good. They can take the form of a psychopath that does its nasty all over people. No. One thing I do know 100% is, there is evil and it is a "force".

Which brings me to my Q of why Alex wants to find this out. But, I'll ask him later.

Quit calling yourself an "atheist" you're an agnostic. Ya should have learned that in college.
Well I'm not agnostic because my goal is not collect evidence to confirm an anthromorphic God. I couldn't tell you or anybody how the universe started. We all have many theories, one theory which has circled around the last few years is the universe always existed nothing created it. I've been doing some light research here and there and the misuse of words etymology and how socialization blurs our perception. For example the swastika in the west was a symbol of something nefarious, in India its represents something completely different and in Asia its good luck. There might be a force I can't out right deny that or prove that. Most criminals who plead insanity do it not because they are insane but because they want a lesser sentence
Viruses are what they are because of what knowledge we currently have on them, before people researchers told us animals can't count or were unintelligent, that simply isn't true anymore.
From the perspective of an bug like a centipede who feeds off of bugs and their babjws is it evil? No it's just its nature. I think psychopathy is a learned behavior. I guess all we can do is speculate
 
#63
Well I'm not agnostic because my goal is not collect evidence to confirm an anthromorphic God. I couldn't tell you or anybody how the universe started. We all have many theories, one theory which has circled around the last few years is the universe always existed nothing created it. I've been doing some light research here and there and the misuse of words etymology and how socialization blurs our perception. For example the swastika in the west was a symbol of something nefarious, in India its represents something completely different and in Asia its good luck. There might be a force I can't out right deny that or prove that. Most criminals who plead insanity do it not because they are insane but because they want a lesser sentence
Viruses are what they are because of what knowledge we currently have on them, before people researchers told us animals can't count or were unintelligent, that simply isn't true anymore.
From the perspective of an bug like a centipede who feeds off of bugs and their babjws is it evil? No it's just its nature. I think psychopathy is a learned behavior. I guess all we can do is speculate
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Oh, we can do more than "speculate". Okay for starters I know of all that you wrote (got it). But you ARE an agnostic (since you talked about meaning/and I agree): "Agnostic (noun): a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God." pshh, I knew that from your first post.

Okay to the creepers among us (I've had to do some studies/reading & actual on-site) psychopaths & sociopaths are both made & born that way. I think Alex's wife should talk on that (she'd know a lot more than me). But, I have seen (via glass) 100's of men who were in federal prison. Gives ya the CREEPS!

Man, I don't know where to go with how much to say here... I guess I can tell you this, for starters if you are "in tune" (and not everyone is) but you can feel it. At least I can. If you ever have been somewhere & that feeling comes over you & you look up & find someone staring at you. That's it. Frankly, I try NOT to be... (available) to that force. Cause you just, ugh, not sure how to say this. But once you see something, you can't unsee it. It takes you to a new "level". I don't want to know anymore.

That is why it confuses me why Alex wants to understand "evil". If he asks hard enough & wants to "know" it will show him the deepest, darkest parts of hell you can not unsee.

Sociopaths & psychopaths are put in the same camp. But, the difference (to me) is the sociopath is an idiot. He's a spree killer, he doesn't think it out, hence he's in prison. Now, the psychopath (and ya gotta love them) they are smart. I have one next door. They are usually very rich, successful soulless people. Once you get on their bad side they do not forget & they will pound you. They spend a great deal of time thinking exactly how they will get you & get away with it.

In their youth, they discovered this and they use it. Our saving grace is to recognize them. On our side is this as they age I can spot one a mile away, they become sloppy. Because they THINK everyone is stupid but them. THAT is the KEY! Right there.

THAT is what you play into for them. Act stupid, tell them how SMART they are! How CLEVER! They'll love ya (as much as one of them can love/which they actually can't), but they will see you for a useful idiot. You want that. You don't want them thinking you are clever prey... they want to kill that. So you play up to their egos.

Evil is a force. It is also environmental. I mean someone could get hit on the head & become a loon of a type. But real evil, the force. Yeah, it's real. I promise you it is real. So, you would never just open yourself (or your front door) and say, "HEY, come on in!" To anything that passes by. You don't know when it will be passing by & take you up on your kind offer. *shiver.
 
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Baccarat

#64
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Oh, we can do more than "speculate". Okay for starters I know of all that you wrote (got it). But you ARE an agnostic (since you talked about meaning/and I agree): "Agnostic (noun): a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God." pshh, I knew that from your first post.

Okay to the creepers among us (I've had to do some studies/reading & actual on-site) psychopaths & sociopaths are both made & born that way. I think Alex's wife should talk on that (she'd know a lot more than me). But, I have seen (via glass) 100's of men who were in federal prison. Gives ya the CREEPS!

Man, I don't know where to go with how much to say here... I guess I can tell you this, for starters if you are "in tune" (and not everyone is) but you can feel it. At least I can. If you ever have been somewhere & that feeling comes over you & you look up & find someone staring at you. That's it. Frankly, I try NOT to be... (available) to that force. Cause you just, ugh, not sure how to say this. But once you see something, you can't unsee it. It takes you to a new "level". I don't want to know anymore.

That is why it confuses me why Alex wants to understand "evil". If he asks hard enough & wants to "know" it will show him the deepest, darkest parts of hell you can not unsee.

Sociopaths & psychopaths are put in the same camp. But, the difference (to me) is the sociopath is an idiot. He's a spree killer, he doesn't think it out, hence he's in prison. Now, the psychopath (and ya gotta love them) they are smart. I have one next door. They are usually very rich, successful soulless people. Once you get on their bad side they do not forget & they will pound you. They spend a great deal of time thinking exactly how they will get you & get away with it.

In their youth, they discovered this and they use it. Our saving grace is to recognize them. On our side is this as they age I can spot one a mile away, they become sloppy. Because they THINK everyone is stupid but them. THAT is the KEY! Right there.

THAT is what you play into for them. Act stupid, tell them how SMART they are! How CLEVER! They'll love ya (as much as one of them can love/which they actually can't), but they will see you for a useful idiot. You want that. You don't want them thinking you are clever prey... they want to kill that. So you play up to their egos.

Evil is a force. It is also environmental. I mean someone could get hit on the head & become a loon of a type. But real evil, the force. Yeah, it's real. I promise you it is real. So, you would never just open yourself (or your front door) and say, "HEY, come on in!" To anything that passes by. You don't know when it will be passing by & take you up on your kind offer. *shiver.
I have pretty astute intuition and I'm great at reading people and their mannerisms. It's an innate gift I have. For example there was a neighbor that lived on my block. I couldn't stomach him he brought intense feelings of rage, anger every time he walked by. Years later I found out he got arrested for pedophilia, confirmed when I looked his name up. I've had many more instances especially around pastors. I've been right so many times if James Randi had a challenge I'd pass it. Sociopaths remind me of gang members not evil per se but usually misguided, cultural upbringing, drug abusive families broken homes Yada Yada.

I agree with 100 percent of trying to get to the nature of evil. Be very very very careful. Can't stress that enough. I'm very well acquainted with different classes, races of people. Well traveled, decently schooled. I've had numerous psi experiences as well but those are mutually exclusive from religion, new age, occult etc. I think they are an extension of human abilities sort of like x men having their own unique superpowers. It's epigenetic maybe I dunno
 
#65
If free will exist then there are entities that have some control over the experiences they are aware of and can recall. If lack of empathy is a limitation of what the entity can experience, as blindness prevents the experience of colors for others, then the choices of this entity is limited to the results they see or hear but do not feel. That guidance is gone. A sadist has empathy but his emotional wires are crossed, pain is pleasure. To have the ability to experience others pain but choose to not be aware of it, as your awareness is focused on gaining power, is more akin to evil. I guess what I'm trying to get at is evil a biological defect or a defect in the entity that possesses free will? If the latter and the defect can be caused by an illness that can be cured, such as by exorcism, how does one go about studying it? Can we learn about evil by studying horror books or must we study the authors?
 
#66
I have pretty astute intuition and I'm great at reading people and their mannerisms. It's an innate gift I have. For example there was a neighbor that lived on my block. I couldn't stomach him he brought intense feelings of rage, anger every time he walked by. Years later I found out he got arrested for pedophilia, confirmed when I looked his name up. I've had many more instances especially around pastors. I've been right so many times if James Randi had a challenge I'd pass it. Sociopaths remind me of gang members not evil per se but usually misguided, cultural upbringing, drug abusive families broken homes Yada Yada.

I agree with 100 percent of trying to get to the nature of evil. Be very very very careful. Can't stress that enough. I'm very well acquainted with different classes, races of people. Well traveled, decently schooled. I've had numerous psi experiences as well but those are mutually exclusive from religion, new age, occult etc. I think they are an extension of human abilities sort of like x men having their own unique superpowers. It's epigenetic maybe I dunno
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I've had awhile to think about if this thing we have (being able to pick up images/or know things) is something everyone is born with. At first (when I was young) I was sure everyone had it. As peers or friends saw that I would just spout out things (and then it would come true) I said EVERYONE can do it. I didn't want to be the freak.

By high school, I knew it scared people. Even my friends. One Sunday some friends of mine took me to their priest (I'm not even Catholic!). Anyway, he looked at me, he was very nice actually (a young priest) and he said I know what you can do, but you must not do it because it is of the devil. THAT scared me~ I thought WTH? I never asked any "devil" to work his voodoo through me. Plus, I didn't know they had told him about me, so THAT was a freakout.

By college (you'd think people would be more informed) but they thought it was witchcraft. *sigh. So I learned never to tell. Maybe we are just more aware for some reason & we can pick up silent clues others miss... but, as I write this, I know that isn't true. Because... people can know detailed things before they happen.

Frankly, I don't want to know things. I'm tired of it. That I can pick up on the weirdo people I guess that has served me, but I think anyone paying attention can pick up a lot of clues from people. I just get them faster I'll probably come back & delete this comment. I don't like to share this type of info.
 
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Baccarat

#67
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I've had awhile to think about if this thing we have (being able to pick up images/or know things) is something everyone is born with. At first (when I was young) I was sure everyone had it. As peers or friends saw that I would just spout out things (and then it would come true) I said EVERYONE can do it. I didn't want to be the freak.

By high school, I knew it scared people. Even my friends. One Sunday some friends of mine took me to their priest (I'm not even Catholic!). Anyway, he looked at me, he was very nice actually (a young priest) and he said I know what you can do, but you must not do it because it is of the devil. THAT scared me~ I thought WTH? I never asked any "devil" to work his voodoo through me. Plus, I didn't know they had told him about me, so THAT was a freakout.

By college (you'd think people would be more informed) but they thought it was witchcraft. *sigh. So I learned never to tell. Maybe we are just more aware for some reason & we can pick up silent clues others miss... but, as I write this, I know that isn't true. Because... people can know detailed things before they happen.

Frankly, I don't want to know things. I'm tired of it. That I can pick up on the weirdo people I guess that has served me, but I think anyone paying attention can pick up a lot of clues from people. I just get them faster I'll probably come back & delete this comment. I don't like to share this type of info.
Yes I have it and a few friends have it mostly the women friends. One guy use to give me the vibes at a sit down bookstore, I went there every so often to check out interesting books or what not. He was in there sometimes on the computer. One time I sat across from him he was on the computer with head phones on, I kept getting those feelings and noticed him staring to growl to himself? I was ready to pounce him but I wasn't going to do anything first.
Random strangers always take to me everywhere. They say I have a very calm vibe very "zen". One person I know in a accqtaince way from a local pub said he loves seeing me it gives the place a relaxing feel good vibe. I was thinking damn do you know how angry and jaded I have been the last 3 years?
Partly because of the evil question, I luckily pulled back in time. I can only be accountable for me.
Thank God for my short tempered self if I get in those situations my inner voice/heart is like no don't do it. It's saved me so much I'd probably be in jail likely.

I've studied and studied and honestly I'm tired I don't care no more. These circles of new agers, occult, witchcraft, pagan, religious attract a lot of weirdos.

Most people join to boost their ego, get laid, make new friends, or they hate religions vice versa etc.
There are probably thousands of nuanced perceptions and they argue or debate over the same topics. This person got this information form this source this person this source, but the thing is they are likely reading the same books or articles.
This guy summed up how I felt
 
#70
Baccarat: "Yes I have it and a few friends have it mostly the women friends."

Yes, and I'll bet they have native American blood in them. I had two relationships with such women. My first wife knew EXACTLY when she was getting a phone call from someone she knew, and would pick up the receiver of our old dial phone (this was the 70's) before it would ring even once. Later I had a rather unusual friendship with another such woman who was adept at out of body travel also called astral projection. Such women would have been burned at the stake if this was Europe back a few centuries ago in history. Such Creator provided gifts are important for successful motherhood however. A mother needs to be informed at all times about what their curious and often rotten kids might be up to. A woman also needs to know if their significant other might be fuckin' around on them. Such a man wouldn't be a great partner if planning a family. The information is given to them by their ever vigilant Guardian Angel.
 
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Baccarat

#71
Baccarat: "Yes I have it and a few friends have it mostly the women friends."

Yes, and I'll bet they have native American blood in them. I had two relationships with such women. My first wife knew EXACTLY when she was getting a phone call from someone she knew, and would pick up the receiver of our old dial phone (this was the 70's) before it would ring even once. Later I had a rather unusual friendship with another such woman who was adept at out of body travel also called astral projection. Such women would have been burned at the stake if this was Europe back a few centuries ago in history. Such Creator provided gifts are important for successful motherhood however. A mother needs to be informed at all times about what their curious and often rotten kids might be up to. A woman also needs to know if their significant other might be fuckin' around on them. Such a man wouldn't be a great partner if planning a family. The information is given to them by their ever vigilant Guardian Angel.
No none have native blood, I think all humans have it, it's latent in some that's all. I don't believe in a creator, my mother and father are my creator
 
#72
Baccarat: "Yes I have it and a few friends have it mostly the women friends."

Yes, and I'll bet they have native American blood in them. I had two relationships with such women. My first wife knew EXACTLY when she was getting a phone call from someone she knew, and would pick up the receiver of our old dial phone (this was the 70's) before it would ring even once. Later I had a rather unusual friendship with another such woman who was adept at out of body travel also called astral projection. Such women would have been burned at the stake if this was Europe back a few centuries ago in history. Such Creator provided gifts are important for successful motherhood however. A mother needs to be informed at all times about what their curious and often rotten kids might be up to. A woman also needs to know if their significant other might be fuckin' around on them. Such a man wouldn't be a great partner if planning a family. The information is given to them by their ever vigilant Guardian Angel.
Thanks for that!

I don't so much think of these abilities as being given to us for a purpose, but more as a sign that human (and probably animal) consciousness is something far more that what happens in the brain. Some people's true non-material consciousness is more apparent than others, such as myself. I used to persuade myself that materialism was right, and that such phenomena as you mention, were pure fancy or the result of coincidence, etc. Obviously I have come to change my mind - otherwise I would not even be on this forum - never mind moderating it! The only clear example of possibly something of that sort, happened some years ago, when I developed a strong sense that something was wrong with my partner's tyres. She was planning to drvive somewhere down a fairly fast road, and I suddenly decided I had to check her tyres out now! There was a large crack in one tyre, and in all probability it would have burst on her journey!

Clearly those gifts are not reserved for native people (or Christians!), because there are plenty of caucasians who report such things, but I guess the native Americans are less likely to keep things like that private.

David
 
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Baccarat

#74
thx. but I find erhman frustrating... I mean, maybe he's just sticking to his knitting re history, but he is completely silent about contemporary science / study of extended consciousness.
He bounces around alot but I don't blame him new data comes in and you have to fit in the frame of the current data. I believe he thinks Jesus existed, but none of the miracles he did were true and added later by whoever wrote the gospels.
 
#75
Thanks for that!

I don't so much think of these abilities as being given to us for a purpose, but more as a sign that human (and probably animal) consciousness is something far more that what happens in the brain. Some people's true non-material consciousness is more apparent than others, such as myself. I used to persuade myself that materialism was right, and that such phenomena as you mention, were pure fancy or the result of coincidence, etc. Obviously I have come to change my mind - otherwise I would not even be on this forum - never mind moderating it! The only clear example of possibly something of that sort, happened some years ago, when I developed a strong sense that something was wrong with my partner's tyres. She was planning to drvive somewhere down a fairly fast road, and I suddenly decided I had to check her tyres out now! There was a large crack in one tyre, and in all probability it would have burst on her journey!

Clearly those gifts are not reserved for native people (or Christians!), because there are plenty of caucasians who report such things, but I guess the native Americans are less likely to keep things like that private.

David
Thank you, David. I guess I'm a bit biased against ladies who are not Native American with regards to intuition. I have read that the number of women who were burned at the stake by ignorant ("Christian") men during those dark days in Europe long ago might have been in the millions. So I'm inclined to think that such abilities may have to some degree been exterminated out of them. My native American first wife freaked me out with her intuition. "Normal" people ain't supposed to be able to do that, I thought. I had some personal greater understanding and Spiritual adjustments to make. To borrow a few words from Jack Nicholson, "She made me want to be a better man". ** ~g
 
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#76
Clearly those gifts are not reserved for native people (or Christians!), because there are plenty of caucasians who report such things, but I guess the native Americans are less likely to keep things like that private.
David
I also think it can be due to their upbringing if its more "traditional" and not "western" since I think they value intuition more than westerners typically do.
 
#78
Alper's strong and immovable beliefs are due to his confidence in materialism. That confidence is justified by his antecedent belief that abiogenesis and evolution are scientifically validated.

Alex's frustration with him for ignoring consciousness and NDE evidence is due to this fact. If materialists are pressed to present the scientific proofs for abiogenesis and evolution they are disarmed and forced to consider the options.

Consciousness beyond neurons is proven experientially and with real time scientific work, as Alex so ably presents. But disproving abiogenesis and evolution, and proving intelligent causation also powerfully point to the fact that we are not "biological robots in a meaningless universe." Sometimes that's the best way to get through to materialists.

If you are not familiar with these (nonreligious) proofs, this Quroa post is a good start: https://qr.ae/T6fR0w
 

Alex

Administrator
#79
Alper's strong and immovable beliefs are due to his confidence in materialism. That confidence is justified by his antecedent belief that abiogenesis and evolution are scientifically validated.

Alex's frustration with him for ignoring consciousness and NDE evidence is due to this fact. If materialists are pressed to present the scientific proofs for abiogenesis and evolution they are disarmed and forced to consider the options.

Consciousness beyond neurons is proven experientially and with real time scientific work, as Alex so ably presents. But disproving abiogenesis and evolution, and proving intelligent causation also powerfully point to the fact that we are not "biological robots in a meaningless universe." Sometimes that's the best way to get through to materialists.

If you are not familiar with these (nonreligious) proofs, this Quroa post is a good start: https://qr.ae/T6fR0w
nice. Thanks. Then again, some parts of the quora post dependent on a materialistic science made up of stuff as opposed to the consciousness first
 
#80
nice. Thanks. Then again, some parts of the quora post dependent on a materialistic science made up of stuff as opposed to the consciousness first
Agreed, but the arguments I presented on Quora are intended to show that materialists are defeated with their own preconceived bias. They argue materialistic science proves abiogenesis and evolution, but science, in fact, defeats them. That might cause them pause to consider the consciousness stuff.
 
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