Michael Tsarion on Race, Jordan Peterson, and Why Conspiracy Work is Spiritual Work |372|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Deaglan MacCanna

    Deaglan MacCanna Member

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    Ah, now. Don't jump the gun here. This is how this subject devolves no matter where you go. It's not a reflection of the Skeptiko audience, but a reflection of the entire Western population. Most of us, in this area, are brainless idiots arguing for positions that were given to us. It's clear to see very few of us here have thought of the subject beyond that.
     
  2. Hypsiprymnodontidae

    Hypsiprymnodontidae New

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    Would you sir happened to have been an active user on stormfront, apricity or skadi? Judging from your posts you seem to be. I'm actually also involved in anthropology. I've actually been active on other anthroforums as well as stormfront (specifically to give counter arguments). I've been doing my research lately and I've made my judgements based on the evidence of what was given to determine what constitutes a "race", and so far your views are very cliche to what a lot of these forums are. Your obviously a white nationalist. I know this isn't exactly an anthro forum, but I've noticed in this thread that it has gone towards that path. So I would like to ask you. What exactly do you believe the "white race" is?
     
  3. Hypsiprymnodontidae

    Hypsiprymnodontidae New

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    For anyone and everyone that is discussing race here. I've noticed that y'all have been using Richard Lynn and Charles Murrays IQ test scores of world populations to determine "racial differences", I've also noticed some rather cliche and meek counter arguments being used to attack it. I would suggest for any user on here that is interested to look into global population genetic PCA charts to see the distances between certain populations. Using social sciences to determine "racial differences" should be set aside for now, we have genetic biology to determine it now. By the way the terms such as "Caucasian, mongoloid and negroid" have been practically proven with genetic biology. Those predictions that those anthropologists made from the 19th century were correct.
     
  4. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I wonder if epi-genetics has a story to tell regarding the various races of humans.

    David
     
  5. Hypsiprymnodontidae

    Hypsiprymnodontidae New

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    They do. And a lot of it is not exactly what a lot of people make think they are either. Some of it even surprising. You'll be surprised to hear about the history of migration groups and how certain genes have been mixed. Along with the origin of certain mutations and hereditable changes that have occurred. Along with certain traits and features that have been selected for in order to adapt to the environment. It's also interesting to notice the certain language groups that have been spread along with certain phenotypic characteristics that have been introduced to certain populations.
     
  6. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    No. Stormfront is bunch of retarded old farts and stupid young guys who enjoy LARPing about Nazis the same way Ninjutsu buffoons like to dress in black hamakas and pretend they are 18th century Japanese elite warrior Ninjas. I don't know what those other two are.

    A "race" is some scientific definition. You can go look it up.

    Being a White Person is not just about "race". It's about thousands of years of culture, heritage, history, conflict, achievement, and spirituality.

    You should endeavor to learn more about the Greek concept of Ethnoi, ἔθνος

    Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group
     
  7. Hypsiprymnodontidae

    Hypsiprymnodontidae New

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    I know that race is a real concept, but your definition of it is probably some arbitrary grouping that you created because of geo-political reasons similar to stormfronts definition. If you mean an ethnic group, then that is understandable. If your talking about a geographic grouping that has changed throughout time, than it probably isn't reliable.
     
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  8. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Then I suppose a logical question to put up onto that would be, apparently (according to you), the days of the country being made for white people are apparently in the past also. You are also pleading to the past in saying we need to sustain white culture because the country is for white people, and in the same breath you state that the country is no longer for white people. You're playing the exact same game. Those days are in the past too. Youre acting as if white people have an inherent right to reclaim their past ownership, but other races do not. It's blatantly silly. I suppose this is because you yourself (presumably) are white. Shocker.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  9. Vault313

    Vault313 New

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    Holy shit. This thread turned into pure cancer. Nice to see this post-modern “white devil” tumor has metastasized to even the strange corners of the internet, places like Skeptiko even.

    Funny how it’s become so fashionable to hate on white people, while elevating literally every other race as superior. Yep, sounds like white supremacy to me. If only white people would accept the fact that they have no place of origin and no right to exist and just commit self-genocide, am I right?!?

    Jesus, you people. You disgust me. You pretend to be “compassionate”, when it’s actually hate that you hold in your heart.

    I don’t want to see any race or culture be annihilated. Anyone who does is a monster, pure and simple.

    It’s quite disgusting that white people cannot even defend their right to exist without being called “supremacist”. Fucking ridiculous, low brow, divide and conquer nonsense. Anyone pushing this “white people are evil and have no culture” garbage is a brain dead lemming. Even if you hide it behind “muh archeology”. Anyone with half a brain and a modicum of understanding of history knows how much of it, especially going back past 3000 years is various narratives spun out of scant evidence.

    But please, by all means, continue on with your hateful rhetoric and explain why white people have no right to an existence or a homeland. You’ll just be stoking the flames. And the blood that comes will be on your hands and your fellow compatriots who think they stand on “the right side of history”. It could be different, but you all just cannot seem to help yourselves. Disgusting.
     
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  10. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    No, Im saying nobody has a "right" to any land. Its a land for all people. You're railing against the wrong guy. I was responding to somebody claiming this was a white land. Strange that you would quote me and then proceed with what you said. I never even remotely stated that whites have no right to a homeland. Im white. lol what nonsense. And as far as I can tell, nobody is saying that whites shouldnt have a homeland. Wth are you talking about?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  11. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Both true.

    False. All people have a right to exist, and a right to preserve their heritage and culture.
     
  12. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Really? Way to cast a super wide net.

    Wow man, you really should step away from the keyboard the next time you get so amped up.

    Charlie's posts in this thread were, as usual, difficult to decipher and seemed to ooze of discrimination. I'm still not entirely sure what his point is, but that seems to be par for the course with Charlie. (The typical dismissive, "Go look for yourself" when asked to substantiate or explain something he's written.)

    Having said that, if you have it in you to have a courteous dialogue I'd like to understand what the "white race" means to you. Firstly, as I tried to ask Charlie, can you define "white"? Is it identifiable via DNA? Appearance? Culture?

    The follow on question for me is with the ever decreasing barriers to (traditionally labeled) cross race marriages and progeny, what will it mean in 100 years or 1,000 years to be "white"? For that matter, what fixed definition of race may have been bantered about 10,000 years ago and was something lost if that changed over time to the present day? Either from the past to the present or from the present into the future, why should we want to keep culture or "homelands" static?

    I just don't get the core concern here.
     
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  13. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    It's a combination of all those things.

    I don't understand why you find that so difficult to comprehend.

    The government agencies, Universities, Courts, and Charities which actively discriminate against providing benefits to White People don't seem to experience your difficulty determining who is White and who is Not.
     
  14. Silence

    Silence Member

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    That's an entirely expected response and chock full of irony. Still no quantifiable answer and an added insult as to how I'm having trouble quantifying.

    Its cartoonish Charlie, in a not so flattering way.

    Let's not mix in the conspiratorial government angle here as we should take things piecemeal. You know, build the foundation before trying to set the capstone?

    We'll start with the DNA aspect. Since its part of the "combination", how is the specific weighting factored?
     
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  15. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    I just can’t understand the uproar being made by some white people right now. There is no “white genocide” happening in America. Besides certain dark corners of the internet, nobody is hating on white people. I’m not sure what you mean when you say, “ white people can’t even defend their rights to exist without being called supremacist”. Why are white people having to defend their right to exists? Whose saying white people can’t exist? You made like three blanket statements that do not apply to minority activists, like myself, and those fighting for equal rights. White people have a culture and can exist. Wormwood is arguing(and I agree with him) that white people in America have no “right” to claim America. Which makes perfect sense considering that it was stolen from the Native Americans. Technically, any race besides the Native Americans(and a few blacks who lived in America precolonial times) have no right to claim America as theirs. You can call America your home and have pride living here. I certainly do. But to say that it belongs to white people somehow and white people are allowed to claim it and it solely was built on “white values”, is absolutely ludicrous. Your last paragraph is certainly made of the “hateful rhetoric” that you imply your against. Actually, it reminds me of The Charlottesville Protests with the white supremacist protesters...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  16. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    That sounds like a good definition until it gets difficult to “draw the line”. For example, I am mixed, my mom is white and my dad is black. I am light skinned but I have black features and body. Most people don’t even know that I am mixed, they think I am “100%” black. I was raised in a white neighborhood and adopted “white culture”. On the contrary, my friend is mixed as well, but is “white passing” meaning she looks white and has white features. She was raised in a black neighborhood and adopted “black culture”. Your making it seem as if it is simple to decide who is a minority and who isn’t. Does our white half count as anything. If America turned into an all white nation, would be allowed to stay? What if someone was 25% black? I have another friend who has 5% Spanish heritage in her blood, but is otherwise white. What happens to her? Not everything is (pun intended) black and white like you are trying to make it out to be.
     
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  17. I am hoping this is the start of something that will prove me wrong when I say we lack cultural leaders:

    kanye.GIF

    kk.GIF
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  18. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    I’m sorry, but did you seriously just call Kanye West and Kim Kartrashian “cultural leaders”? In my opinion, Kanye is an “Uncle Tom” and Kim, like the rest of her family, are culture vultures. This gave me a good laugh though. Had no idea people took them this seriously.
     
  19. I hardly know who they are myself but facts are facts. They have tens of millions of followers on twitter. I'm not sure what you think of by "cultural leader". What I meant was celebrities who will speak out on cultural or political issues.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West
    Celebrities are influential (de facto leaders) because you hear about them more often than other people and repetition is influential. Being controversial increases media attention which increases influence. (Trump understood the effectiveness of this.) You might not be influenced by them but some people will be. And those influenced people will influence others.

    There is also the phenomenon of "preference cascades". When a seemingly unpopular opinion is voiced by a few people (who demonstrate the backlash is not fatal), more and more people may become willing to admit publicly they agree, and others change their minds, until it becomes a majority opinion. It is a phenomenon that is often associated with the overthrow of dictators. Political correctness (trying to censor people with different opinions by calling them names and shaming them) is a huge problem. Many people agree it is a problem but are afraid to say so. I think the US is ripe for a preference cascade against it.

    kw2.GIF

    kk2.GIF
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  20. Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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