Michael Tsarion on Race, Jordan Peterson, and Why Conspiracy Work is Spiritual Work |372|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    Thank you for putting this so eloquently! I just can't understand where the white genocide idea came from. Yes, there are extreme SJW's who spout hateful nonsense, but those are the minority who shouldn't be paid attention to. I do think "the Left" should make a bigger effort to denounce such violence and hate from the SJW movement. Being threatened online does not equate mass murder of a race. If so, then ALL races are currently in a genocide.

    On a side note, I also do not understand the problem with "people of color safe spaces" or any "safe space" for that matter. I remember the uproar from that and was really confused about it. Not everything has to be open to everyone. As I've mentioned before, I am apart of a local group of black activists. Every Monday, they have a "dark skin only safe space" meeting where people can discuss issues regarding colorism. I have zero problem not being able to participate in this group, because it is not meant for me. As a light skin biracial woman, I have a privilege and recognize that dark skin people need a place where they can discuss colorism and the struggles they go through. It has nothing to do with racism or discrimination. Sorry if this is off topic, just wanted to add my two cents on this matter.
     
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  2. Laird

    Laird Member

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    My best guess is that the "white genocide" claim is based on net relative immigration rates and/or net relative birth rates ("net" meaning taking into account, respectively, emigrations and deaths). I imagine that the claim is that due to these relative rates, the proportion of white people in traditionally white lands is decreasing.

    Even assuming this were true (I have no idea whether or not it is and no particular interest in finding out), the claim that this qualifies as "white genocide" strikes me as extremely hyperbolic.
     
  3. malf

    malf Member

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    I’m guessing he ‘white genocide’ meme allows one to excuse and maintain a racist outlook. Just look at the posters pushing it in this thread.
     
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  4. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    Not trying to promote Shaun again, but he has a video regarding the “great replacement”, which is the concept that white people in Europe are being replaced by immigrants, specifically Muslim immigrants. This doesn’t affect the U.S though, so why white Americans are freaking about it remains a mystery. Whites make up 60% of the population in the U.S, so they are a long way from being a minority. I also don’t see a problem if the white population decreases in America either. Why do white Americans have to remain the majority? Would it be bad if all races here were roughly the same in population?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  5. TheRaven

    TheRaven Member

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    I won’t say anything about the posters here, but the people I have talked to that push this “white genocide” thing are usually very racist, but they won’t admit they are. Racism hasn’t gone anywhere, it just evolved into something new.
     
  6. Laird

    Laird Member

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    A helpful video. Thanks. Here it is for anybody else interested:

     
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  7. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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  8. Laird

    Laird Member

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    I'm already aware of the U.N. definition. And the article you posted wasn't convincing.
     
  9. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Do Black People exist?

    If so, do they have a right to exist?
     
  10. Laird

    Laird Member

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    Can pointless and inane questions be asked?

    If so, do they have a right to be answered?

    Dude, there are hundreds of millions - perhaps over a billion - white people in the world today, depending on how you define "white". Since there is no widespread, systematic attempt to slaughter us, and since our birth rate is not drastically low, and since the rate of interracial marriages involving whites is low, it seems safe to say that we'll be around for a while yet...
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  11. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I thought you were the one who said White People don't exist.

    Do they?
     
  12. Laird

    Laird Member

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    Nope, that wasn't me. Quite the opposite. The idea that race is nothing but a cultural construct is positively Orwellian, much like the eliminativists' denial of consciousness. That's not to say that race is perfectly defined - of course there is some fuzziness around the concept, its categories and their scope, but it quite obviously exists.

    Yes. See above.
     
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  13. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    Interesting stuff. Sifting through information has really become a chore.
     
  14. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Ah. I confused you with some other Anti-White upthread. I apologize.
     
  15. Laird

    Laird Member

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    No need to apologise, but I appreciate the sentiment, especially given the tone of some of my own responses.
     
  16. Vortex

    Vortex Member

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    As a Libertarian Leftist, I had a lot of hard time of inner conflict, trying to find a proper balance between two equally valid and important (at least for me...) social principles - Libertarian approval of the free association, on one hand, and Leftist rejection of social segregation and exclusion, on the other.

    As for now, my solution to this dilemma is such: on a personal (and communal) and informal level, people has the right to accept, reject, or avoid social contacts and relationships by their own choice, based on their own views, whatever they are; yet, on a societal and formal level, level of social policy and structure, the should be no presciption or enforcement of social segregation and exclusion of any kind.

    To explain, let me use two examples - one is "dark skin only safe space" (mentioned by you, Raven), another is a Christian baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

    Both cases are acceptable to me as long as they as they remain the informal personal (or communal) choices of an individual (or an informal group). People have the right to decide whom they to see in their company, and with whom they want to work or to do buisness. Their motives and decisions may be not likeable to the people outside of their immediate circle; they may disagree with them; yet they have to accept them as an expession of the basic social freedom to choose with whom to have contacts and with whom not to have.

    Yet both cases stop to be acceptable to me in the moment they become a part of a formal policy; in the moment they turn into an enforceable prescription. So, I would not accept the official university policy of turning parts of campus into "safe spaces" for certain groups; neither will I accept any legislation, local or general, which will aim to deprive homosexuals of certain social possibilites (such as employing a baker to bake a cake for their wedding). In both cases, that would be segregation and exclusion, not freedom of association.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  17. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    This is why Libertarian Utopianism is great in theory, but fails when brought into the real world.

    Like Dr. Dean Radin, I prefer real-world results over quaint esoteric theories.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Vortex

    Vortex Member

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    Can't see any logical connection between what I wrote and what you wrote. :eek:

    What I meant is that integration and inclusion should be accepted as a general societal principle (no formal segregation or exclusion policies should be enforced) yet specific persons or communities should not be obliged to adhere to this principle in every instance - they have the right to accept or reject their associates by their own decision, with their justifications not necessarily shared by the societal majority.
     
  19. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    You don't see the insurmountable paradox between saying individuals should not be required to abide decisions by any group, and ALSO some thing should be accepted by all.
     
  20. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Yup, American citizen here.

    Yup, I own two guns. Caveat here is they were both inherited from family members. I've hunted a couple times in my life and gone target shooting probably 10 times or so. Obviously, not a gun enthusiast but not entirely naïve as to their handling/use.

    I also fully understand the underlying intent of second amendment.

    Your argument to maintain the status quo as it relates to assault rifles is the check it facilitates through the threat of a citizen-powered guerrilla response to a tyrannical government? I don't agree. I don't think such a tyrannical movement would even be phased by such a threat. Vietnam was 50 years ago. Technology has moved those goalposts and will continue to do so.

    I fall on the side of greater concern for safety in schools, places of worship, and the workplace. If citizen ownership of assault rifles is the linchpin to freedom, we're already doomed to tyranny. I think the horse is out of the barn on that one and that other factors/forces are keeping tyranny at bay.
     
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