Michael Tsarion on Race, Jordan Peterson, and Why Conspiracy Work is Spiritual Work |372|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Inner Space

    Inner Space New

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    The tiresome argument of "that is just an anecdote" continues. There is nothing wrong with anecdotes as long as they can be proved and are not just rumours. In science they call anecdotes "case studies." Finding exceptions to general statistical trends are also important because if we ignore outliers as mere "noise" we run the risk of missing important information.
     
  2. dpdownsouth

    dpdownsouth Member

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    What!!?!?! This thread has just reached a new low.
     
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  3. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Yes but to apply Eysenck's work you would be talking about a sequence of decisions about individuals.

    Individual hiring decisions.

    Individual decisions about entry to university.

    Etc.

    None of those decisions are going to be informed by looking at a weak correlation involving race, when each individual can be assessed by his/her individual exam results and other attainments.

    David
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  4. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    1. The correlations are not weak.

    2. We are talking about public policy, not individual decisions.

    Race-blind public polices would be a vast improvement over current public policies that racially discriminate against White People.
     
  5. dpdownsouth

    dpdownsouth Member

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    Thing is, I don't really feel connected to South Africa as a whole, but to a rather small region of it. When I travel to other parts of the country, I feel a tiny degree of being culturally and environmentally out of step. So I assume my sense of a home place is based on where my upbringing took place. I'm also sure these kinds of cultural and topological eccentricities must have a developmental role on who we are as people, at least in nuance.

    That being said, a family member of mine visited Ireland some years ago and was plagued by militaristic and violent dreams.... at the time I wondered if this could be related to a hardcore unionist ancestor we have (about four generations back - a marcher and all that crap). So I don't rule out ancestral memory as a phenomena, but I also think it could be physiological in some way (genetic/epigenetic/who knows) and I'm not sure if it has any transmigrational dimension.

    Anyway, immigration IS a part of my ancestral experience.

    As for tribal spirituality, I wouldn't denigrate it at all, there's true timeless wisdom and practice there.... but since the universe/life/sentience/society seems to have an evolutionary bent... I reckon contemporary spiritual perception should too (or at least adapt to its time). Hey, maybe even reincarnation as a phenomena is evolving in some way. At the moment I'm trying to building-block my way into a kind of 21st century animism.

    The whole conversation brings to my mind James Baldwin, the American author. He travelled to Africa expecting the experience to be a home coming.... in reality, it made him realise that he's far more American than he is African.

    As an aside, some Afrikaner cultural organisations have tried in the past to have themselves registered with the UN as an indigenous African tribe.

    But, as you say, who knows?

    All the best.

    Edit: Just wondering.... is the cultural/environmental setting that lead to the 'pagan' way of relating to life even in existence anymore? I'm not well informed on the subject, so I ask this humbly: is ancient paganism still appropriate to 21st century Europe? Has it evolved over the last few thousand years (apart from Christianised Folk magic and Saint worship)?

    Please understand, I'm genuinely curious..... not trying to jump on anyone's beliefs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  6. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think Eysinck claimed 5%, now go and look at the bell curve for IQ that I posted above.

    However, there is a second point here, If A is correlated with B, and all you have is B, it may make some sense to use it as a way to estimate A. However if you already have a measurement of A, why use B to try to estimate it!
    I certainly agree with that.

    David
     
  7. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    Which is what, specifically?
     
  8. Inner Space

    Inner Space New

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    Anomalies in statistical trends are sometimes just noise and sometimes they are important clues. Exemptions that prove the rule.
     
  9. AryaS

    AryaS Member

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    I also think one can have a sense of deep connection to a land one has never been to before. It happened for me. During one of my spring breaks in college, I visited the Virgin Islands for the first time. The moment I stepped off the plane I felt this very deep connection to the place -- like I had been there before. I had been to other tropical places, so it wasn't just the stunning beauty of it. It was a sensing that I "knew" this place. I ended up moving there for several years after graduation, and every time I left and came back -- the same feeling of connection would flood through me each time I got off that plane.

    I haven't been back in over 20 years now. I wonder if I would still get that hit....

    Really enjoyed this episode. Thanks, Alex!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  10. Inner Space

    Inner Space New

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    Not more of this white “victim-hood.” America seems to be a one giant band-wagon of claiming discrimination and victimisation in all aspects of its society.
     
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  11. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    And I assume your story is this important clue... an important clue of what?
     
  12. Inner Space

    Inner Space New

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    That the so-called innate saliency of race or racial differences may not necessarily be so obvious to children. The division by race is one which we facilitate by socially reinforcing it with racial stereotypes and pseudoscientific talk about genetic differences between race.
     
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  13. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Amen
     
  14. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    If you think hearing about it is bad, try living in it.

    I grew weary of hearing how White People are responsible for every ill in the world 20 years ago.

    I've paid enough. Done. Over. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
     
  15. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Wait, we're talking about groups and how the "White" group has been victimized? Did I read that correctly?
     
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  16. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Yes. Do you have some kind of problem with White People?
     
  17. Zach Abraham R

    Zach Abraham R Member

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    I don't think I'm in the minority here when I question what the hell you are talking about, especially with no "homework" attached,
    especially when your personal bias couldn't be clearer from the comments you've made.

    I think no matter what color your skin is you've personally experienced some form racism. That shouldn't be controversial. But to say the "white race" is being persecuted is beyond the pale to many and I might ask if there's anything in your opinion that is based in scientific study.
     
  18. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    All of a sudden there is more minority voices speaking up. More black themed superheroes and now whites are supressed....please
     
  19. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Who said the White Race is being persecuted?
     
  20. Zach Abraham R

    Zach Abraham R Member

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    There's a grain of truth in every opinion. It's good to be curious, you wind up hearing a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise, even if it doesn't change your opinion etc.
    The thing about racism that's confusing is that there are so many racist people who don't have any interest in seeing/inflicting suffering. Isn't it a by-product of a society based in a punitive order that whichever kind of easily classifiable group that's easiest to pick on will inevitably become the scapegoat for issues far beyond their control? Issues at the root of our society.
    The real issues are the outdated feudal Justice and Penal systems. We all know it can't be perfect but...
    We also know there is a modern day slavery ring being run out of for-profit prisons so maybe handling insanely unjust things like this might lead to a warmer civil society
     
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