Miguel Conner, Gnosticism and the Evil Question |446|

#21
An idea of how a spirit can be trapped.

This is not going to be easy (I am sure).
It could be helpful if looked at within the intention field I am sending it.

Consciousness "goes" to "clean" spaces.
So if there is an area assigned a label "unclean" consciousness will not pervade this area but wall it off with the label. The label is the wall.

The label is a kind of machine of thought. A computation which goes into a kind of automatic and sets up the wall.
The computation's foundation is, "That is wrong" or "that is unclean" or "that is dangerous".

But in order for those to be "true" (factual) the "clean" thing, the "safe" thing, the "right" thing would be you. Would be what you are considering you to be. Your consciousness.

When such computations are held onto "for dear life" AND one wants to understand how existence as spiritual state can be, one is in conflict with spiritual nature (spiritual nature is non-local). But the computation localizes.

If this can be understood, I believe one can make some progress on their journey to being the way they know is possible.
An example of such a wall (a life might have many of these walls) an example of such wall coming down would be when one reaches a decision to forgive someone. Upon forgiving, the computation of "unclean", "wrong", "dangerous" is discharged and consciousness is "allowed" into the area.

Allowed to become non-localize (non-trapped).


Much love.
I hope this has some helpful idea available.
 
#22
Clearly you can't have a mechanism for a mental phenomenon - I suppose that this is a manifestation of the Hard Problem.
Consciousness exists within the fuzzy boundary between the mechanisms. As such mental phenomena are part mechanism and part Other (which goes by many names but my favorite name is the Abyss).
The hard problem exists because people are looking at either side of the boundary and claiming consciousness is one or the other instead of recognizing the boundary as place in its own right.

The perfect visual metaphor for this is the human eye: a sphere of solid white and solid black, but at the boundary between white and black you have color and intricate complexity and a little network of threads tying the white and black together. That’s where consciousness dwells.

Back on topic now... I believe in ontological good and evil. However they exist as poles on a spectrum. And just as a river floating in space makes no sense without the context of the hills and the earth, so a manifestation of good or evil cannot be separated from its context.

I believe there are good and evil spirits but the only reason we are not overwhelmed with their influence is that we are protected by a filter and this filter involves hierarchical organization which is being attacked and responding to attacks. There is no skyscraper without gravity. There is no meaning to an ascending force without an opposing force. Nothing is unipolar.

From within a structure those on the outside trying to tear it down appear to be Evil and the Good is to help the structure persist. From outside the structure those within appear to be imprisoned by Evil and the Good appears to be destruction.

Society is a structure and the individual human psyche is a structure. There are those that wish to destroy both and those that wish to struggle against the downward forces and build upwards.

Where does that leave us with the torturers of children? They should be hanged.
 
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lonevoice

#23
Well the tree was supposed to be the temple, and the rocks were supposed to be offerings (I suppose). I agree it was underwhelming, but I wanted to discover what Miguel was referring to.

David
David It was good of you to post the article. I was just objecting to the sloppiness of calling it a reference to temple building.
 
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#28
Look the reason why Jung work with the shadow and human psyche has helped people is because it helped people overcome integrate emotions, feelings and integrate them in a healthy manner for deeper understanding. As opposed to just diving into the psyche for the sake of finding out what's there is totally different. Time has proven that the psyche is metaphorically a Maze, delving in to it too deeply causes people to go mad if they lack a strong inner conviction. I guess we can call it schizophrenia, be careful threading on this stuff, no one on either side has come up with a clear answer. Let things be try reading some jk krishnamurti who helped inspire Bruce on Lee, check out epigenetic memory and just think of all the DNA memory you hold from your ancestors. Be practical
 
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#30
I posted this interview sometime back, this is one of the most amazing NDE experiences I have ever heard of or read about. It recounts a encounter with the Demiurge as well as the true light and remarks on the difference. Normally we would see these things culturally but the experiencer, Wayne Bush seems to have had no prior exposure to Gnosticism that I can tell. Since hearing I have recognized similar symbols and terminology attributed to what the experiencer believes to be the God, but it is not the actually the true light but something else.

"I think God split up, and I think what God created was a lesser aspect of herself" - Wayne Bush

He says herself because the true light is more feminine not that it is feminine but because it is neither and both.

If he had not been exposed the the Gnostic creation myth this statement is truly on the money. Amazing.

This story has stayed with me since I first encountered it. I've listened multiple times and will probably continue to do so. It is truly bitter sweet and extraordinarily profound story. It specifically addresses the question of Evil, it's place, it's purpose. the 2/3 light 1/3 darkness game of the Demiurge.

This is just an ordinary guy, definitely not a saint or a sage, but the wisdom that this experience has gifted him with is beyond any spiritual teacher I know.

I believe this is truth. You really need to hear this.




Holy Triple Bump!!! [Thanks, LoneShaman]

Have heard many times of late... "Can the cure be worse than the virus?"

My thought after watching all four videos - Perhaps the virus is the cure - as we watch the factions of the darkness fighting whereby the result may be the end of that "2/3rds light."
 
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#31
ok, Alex... I finished Skeptiko #446 - took me all weekend... 23 pages of notes haha.

I finally caught you "teaching." Pointing out the ludicrosity [yes, I made up a word]... the ludicrosity of back-door materialism!

It's cheating (keeping anything hidden and by so doing, "using it" for personal gain) IMO and why I eschewed "intentional magick." Silliness. Child's play.

Yet, if it were not for the recognition from my experiences... recognition of that which I could not explain (I saw it as "magical" and told you so), I would never have discovered "magic kingdom" and never would have taken the very "missteps" that led me to this conclusion where I understood what you said at the end of Skeptiko #446 and also, happen to agree with (now... finally... I could say I only began to "get there" in just the last few years) 100%.

I am grateful you have continued to share your journey/exploration and grateful you dove into the exploration of "good and evil."

For me, I found good to be life encouraging (creating, preserving) and evil to be life destroying (destruction)... nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimurti

But what is interesting is LoneShaman's post of the NDE guy... and his discovery of "The Demiurge" as "God" (ie. false god / fake god... Yahweh, etc.) whereby there is "Above God/real God" like Miguel often refers to - Abraxas as a name he sometimes uses.

And I suddenly saw that of "the whole" attributed to the Demiurge, 2/3rds light (creation/preservation) and his 1/3rd darkness (destruction) matched up (for me) with Trimurti...

I then recall the end of the third Matrix movie and how I interpreted that ending. An interpretation I shared many times and no one I shared it with seemed to "get it."

Neo represented the 2/3rds light and agent Smith the 1/3rd darkness where, in the end, they fused to cancel each other out thus wiping out the creation of "the Architect" - the Matrix whereby the Architect (the Demiurge) "loses" and yet...

 
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#32
It should be of interest why some people are susceptible to certain types of evil.

Others are not susceptible.
No. No. No. I am not talking about why they have or do not have methods to defend against evil. I am talking about susceptibility to evil.

Well the study should be of interest to those who do not abide this "victim" stance.

If needing a victim someone somewhere, then it is of no interest to you to find what is this susceptibility to evil.
It then would be, "Why do you need victims?"
OHHHHHhhhhhhhh. Victims exist outside responsibility - your or theirs. Someone else was in charge.

Things happen within fields. The power to victimize is garnered from the field the victimizer is in. If the field is pure responsibility though, how many victims can there be in that field?

So now the question is, "Is it ok to be irresponsible?"
 
#33
I loved it when Miguel said the following,

"In Gnosticism you start with, how did good come into the world? You shift it to realize this is a hostile place beyond the germs and the animals and the tornadoes want to kick your ass. This is a place where there’s evil spirits walking around. And as we’ve seen by humanity in the world, at least from my perspective, this is their turf and they’ve been kicking our asses for thousands of years. Look at civilization"

The implications of this are vast. "This is their turf", exactly. This planet is under the control of a higher order of being who consider the planet and the humans on it their property, and they continue to convince us that we are the top predator here.

We know that something is wrong. Everything is wrong. We all want to make it better, but from the perspective of the rulers, everything is going according to plan.

UFO researchers was disclosure. That humans are the property of a 4th density lower astral alien race can never be disclosed. It would be like a rancher setting his cattle free. What's the point of that?
 
#34
This post has Alex in mind -

I have heard you (Alex) make the point many times that so many people who have had an NDE, OBE or experience with "the spirit world" report an experience that fits within the "Christian" theme. When you make this point, I seem to get the feeling you suggest this "validates" (my word, not yours) the Christian theme of angels and God and loving relatives waiting for you in heaven, etc.

The more I have watched your Skeptikos, the more I think I "get" the Skeptiko process... and so I have doubts as to my earlier "leans" as to what you may have been implying. By saying this, if I am more so now "on the right track" as to your process... as "riled up" as I have sometimes been from what seems to be this "Skeptiko" thing where I feel you take a position and then, later, or in another video, you seem to attack that very position... I really do now (at least I think), "get it" - the Skeptiko way.

And so when you hit Miguel with that big "maybe!" and then you explained you are going "Skeptiko" on him... for the first time - I didn't get pissed off! Not because I also though, "maybe"... no, no. Because I have realized my own deficiency in always holding on to that all important "maybe," finally!

Apologies for the long "setup" but here's what I was thinking with regards to Miguel's position of which he is absolutely convinced -

My current opinion -

In one "zone of being" there is no "I" to be seduced into this world by some Demiurge.

In another zone of being, I am a soul, unfettered.

In another zone of being, I am a soul held hostage by the Demiurge and his creation.

I am all of those (and more)... and it is my responsibility, alone, as to which context I allow to be of the greatest influence at each and every moment.

The bottom line is - I am responsible for all my experiences, even when I allow myself to be tricked into thinking I am not. It is I who is the prisoner, it is I who is the trickster that I listened to whereby I found myself in the prison. It is I who is the Demiurge, it is I who doesn't see a matrix to begin with (thus no Demiurge).

Which of those (and others) do I decide is "true" moment to moment?
 
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Baccarat

#35
This post has Alex in mind -

I have heard you (Alex) make the point many times that so many people who have had an NDE, OBE or experience with "the spirit world" report an experience that fits within the "Christian" theme. When you make this point, I seem to get the feeling you suggest this "validates" (my word, not yours) the Christian theme of angels and God and loving relatives waiting for you in heaven, etc.

The more I have watched your Skeptikos, the more I think I "get" the Skeptiko process... and so I have doubts as to my earlier "leans" as to what you may have been implying. By saying this, if I am more so now "on the right track" as to your process... as "riled up" as I have sometimes been from what seems to be this "Skeptiko" thing where I feel you take a position and then, later, or in another video, you seem to attack that very position... I really do now (at least I think), "get it" - the Skeptiko way.

And so when you hit Miguel with that big "maybe!" and then you explained you are going "Skeptiko" on him... for the first time - I didn't get pissed off! Not because I also though, "maybe"... no, no. Because I have realized my own deficiency in always holding on to that all important "maybe," finally!

Apologies for the long "setup" but here's what I was thinking with regards to Miguel's position of which he is absolutely convinced -

My current opinion -

In one "zone of being" there is no "I" to be seduced into this world by some Demiurge.

In another zone of being, I am a soul, unfettered.

In another zone of being, I am a soul held hostage by the Demiurge and his creation.

I am all of those (and more)... and it is my responsibility, alone, as to which context I allow to be of the greatest influence at each and every moment.

The bottom line is - I am responsible for all my experiences, even when I allow myself to be tricked into thinking I am not. It is I who is the prisoner, it is I who is the trickster that I listened to whereby I found myself in the prison. It is I who is the Demiurge, it is I who doesn't see a matrix to begin with (thus no Demiurge).

Which of those (and others) do I decide is "true" moment to moment?
Yes skeptiko has a Christian bias, it's a disability and arrogant, but more of a lack of awareness kind of arrogance as opposed to out right arrogance. Considering many cultures of antiquity don't have the same beliefs
 
#36
Yes skeptiko has a Christian bias, it's a disability and arrogant, but more of a lack of awareness kind of arrogance as opposed to out right arrogance. Considering many cultures of antiquity don't have the same beliefs
I want to make sure what I tried to communicate was that the evidence discovered by Skeptiko happened to be dominated by Christian themes and that Alex had made note of that as a data point. I would not agree that Skeptiko has a Christian bias. There's a big difference in having a bias and coming upon evidence that seems to mimic a particular religious paradigm.

My preliminary conclusions about that was that the entire western culture has been seeded by a Judeo Christian culture whereby I can imagine the other worldly experiences of folks from this same seeding would be laced with those same themes.

Consider also how Hollywood has exploited this same culturally embedded paradigm and how that is like throwing gas on an already well progressed fire.

I also have a good reason to "think" Alex doesn't "do religion" much less, "Christianity." I am intrigued why you think Skeptiko has a Christian bias.

Ohhhh.... thank you for turning me on to Ishi Nobu - fascinating view(s) this guy has.
 
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#38
Those very same people left us Spiritual Wisdom too. Love of Wisdom has always been the highest virtue of Man. Philosophy comes from two Greek words, Love & Wisdom. The ruling families created counterfeit philosophical organizations (Corporate religions/ churches) to replace the three branches (Logic, Ethics, Physics) of Philosophy with Dogma and Doctrine, Fear, Superstition and ignorance. and explain how the powers that be, (The Elite Oligarchies) through their religious, political, monetary, corporate (etc) institutions, have been suppressing the true Science/ Religion that was bequeathed to us by more advanced civilizations i.e.: Egypt, Babylon, Persia, India, Greece etc. The science of the stars and
 
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Baccarat

#39
Stories, Myths, Bibles, Fairy Tales etc, all have one simple common origin. In all of these wonderful ancient classics, the Personae are always the same, under different names. E.g. The Sun, Hercules, Jesus, Krishna, Little Red Ridding Hood, Prince Charming etc., are all one and the same Person/ Entity. All the characters have the same roles, the same adventures and the same trials and labours. The Seven visible planets and luminaries (The Active Creator God’s) in our Solar System considered to be a Macrocosmic Atom, the Twelve Constellations of The Zodiac, all play a very important role in this. The numbers Three and Four are also important. Four is the number of the elements, Fire, Air, Water, and Earth, which correspond to Light/ Heat, Gas, Liquid and Solid. They are the building blocks of the Universe. It is possible to explain every verse in the Bible with Science and Astronomy and Physics et
 
#40
Those very same people left us Spiritual Wisdom too. Love of Wisdom has always been the highest virtue of Man. Philosophy comes from two Greek words, Love & Wisdom. The ruling families created counterfeit philosophical organizations (Corporate religions/ churches) to replace the three branches (Logic, Ethics, Physics) of Philosophy with Dogma and Doctrine, Fear, Superstition and ignorance. and explain how the powers that be, (The Elite Oligarchies) through their religious, political, monetary, corporate (etc) institutions, have been suppressing the true Science/ Religion that was bequeathed to us by more advanced civilizations i.e.: Egypt, Babylon, Persia, India, Greece etc. The science of the stars and
It was interesting to me that you left off the last word in the section you quoted from Bonacci's "about" page...

"...soul."
 
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