Miguel Conner, Gnosticism and the Evil Question |446|

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#61
I would say a monk or a open minded psychiatrist who has compassion. Psychiatry is a pseudo science, even mainstream psychiatrists believe so. It has no basis its based off subjective opinions
 
#62
Since the concept of egragores has been raised a couple of times, i'd like to present some perspectives. Perspective is important. Depending on it defines whether it is reality or not.

In my perspective they are very real and actually self evident.

Firstly what is it? Put simply it is basically group think, a type of group mind that forms when people come together for a common goal. This is simplistic concept of it. The Indian Buddhist definition would be any illusory or mind created apparition.

Carl Jung wrote...
"Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce but which produce themselves and have their own life."

In the occult sense it is a collective thought form that is made up of the thoughts of individuals and in turn it influences, forming a symbiotic connection.

Look at how people behave in groups, we call it mob think. See how panic and violence can quickly escalate to the point of what we would call individual behavior as psychotic. Things are done by individuals that they would never do normally. The group consciousness overtakes, it influences.

Has anyone been inside an ancient Gothic cathedral and felt what that is like? Even if that person has no connection, has no religious belief that powerful feeling is hard to ignore. That place has an egragore of it's own, fed by countless thoughts and prayers.

Entering into a room where a argument or fight has occurred? The saying you could cut the air with a knife comes to mind. Been to a funeral where you had no relationship with the disceased yet feel the pain in your stomach of the people around you? Been to a group meditation session and gone deeper than ever before?

I once took a ghost tour of an old abandoned jail. In one particular building, immediately upon entering I felt sick to my stomach. My head started pounding. I stayed only long enough to hear of the atrocities that had taken place there before having to leave.

Consider Rupert Sheldrakes morphogenic fields for example. Can new knowledge be adapted quickly by other members of a species once it becomes part of that hypothetical field? This is the same concept. A morphogenic field would be a type of egragore.

As most know I am a proponent of psychedelic exploration. Egragores are abound in the DMT realm. These are commonly encountered entities. One particularly common one is the jester. How is this possible for so many to encounter the same abstract being(s)?

Many NDE's have stories of demons, some of which are recognized as being manifestations of negative aspects of the experiencer. This is another example.

Propaganda is a way to create an egragore that grows as concepts are fed into it. It then has the power to influence. Has a covid 19 egragore been created and fed?

Symbols, sigils, icons, idols etc.. these are connections to collective thought forms. This is a fundamental aspect of magick. They are used to influence and direct thought.

So it is simply a matter of perspective. Be wary to dismiss these ideas, because from my perspective these things are constantly used to manipulate. Recognizing them releases you from their power.
 
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#64
This guy shares a similar perspective.
I liked this video. When I watched it, I replaced his hippie example with "the weaponized virus" or, perhaps better stated this way - The virus was at least recognized as an opportunity to artificially create an egregore.

And opposite to the hippie metaphor, that the governments became genuinely afraid of the hippie movement, in the case of the virus, "forces that were united in a shared interest" (the suppression and control of the people) weaponized the virus opportunity, and... here we are.

And, it appears the aspect of the egregore which Dukes suggests as part of the noosphere has been artificially created, the virus itself - as a symbol (we see beautiful multi-colored photos... using vibrant versions of these colors) is the symbol of that which seems to be separate and living independently in the spiritual world.

Both are alive, well and being lapped up by the masses. The results of this OP could never be better. The cabal is in celebration mode. The Demiurge has scheduled a victory party to begin in the evening of November 3, 2020.
 
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#66
So sorry, I am crazy busy David.
The video appears to be a recorded online video presentation made by Gary E. Schwartz to a small group.

Schwartz presents a case of support the Sagan standard on the basis that to do so is deeply ethical (and thus, a requirement so to do). He uses the example of the Richard Jewell story to then make the same case "for" the accusations made against Michael Jackson.

IMO the video was worth watching and I thank lonevoice for bringing it to my attention.
 
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#68
Since the concept of egragores has been raised a couple of times, i'd like to present some perspectives. Perspective is important. Depending on it defines whether it is reality or not.

In my perspective they are very real and actually self evident.

Firstly what is it? Put simply it is basically group think, a type of group mind that forms when people come together for a common goal. This is simplistic concept of it. The Indian Buddhist definition would be any illusory or mind created apparition.

Carl Jung wrote...
"Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce but which produce themselves and have their own life."

In the occult sense it is a collective thought form that is made up of the thoughts of individuals and in turn it influences, forming a symbiotic connection.

Look at how people behave in groups, we call it mob think. See how panic and violence can quickly escalate to the point of what we would call individual behavior as psychotic. Things are done by individuals that they would never do normally. The group consciousness overtakes, it influences.

Has anyone been inside an ancient Gothic cathedral and felt what that is like? Even if that person has no connection, has no religious belief that powerful feeling is hard to ignore. That place has an egragore of it's own, fed by countless thoughts and prayers.

Entering into a room where a argument or fight has occurred? The saying you could cut the air with a knife comes to mind. Been to a funeral where you had no relationship with the disceased yet feel the pain in your stomach of the people around you? Been to a group meditation session and gone deeper than ever before?

I once took a ghost tour of an old abandoned jail. In one particular building, immediately upon entering I felt sick to my stomach. My head started pounding. I stayed only long enough to hear of the atrocities that had taken place there before having to leave.

Consider Rupert Sheldrakes morphogenic fields for example. Can new knowledge be adapted quickly by other members of a species once it becomes part of that hypothetical field? This is the same concept. A morphogenic field would be a type of egragore.

As most know I am a proponent of psychedelic exploration. Egragores are abound in the DMT realm. These are commonly encountered entities. One particularly common one is the jester. How is this possible for so many to encounter the same abstract being(s)?

Many NDE's have stories of demons, some of which are recognized as being manifestations of negative aspects of the experiencer. This is another example.

Propaganda is a way to create an egragore that grows as concepts are fed into it. It then has the power to influence. Has a covid 19 egragore been created and fed?

Symbols, sigils, icons, idols etc.. these are connections to collective thought forms. This is a fundamental aspect of magick. They are used to influence and direct thought.

So it is simply a matter of perspective. Be wary to dismiss these ideas, because from my perspective these things are constantly used to manipulate. Recognizing them releases you from their power.
I particularly like your: "Propaganda is a way to create an egragore that grows as concepts are fed into it. It then has the power to influence. Has a covid 19 egragore been created and fed?"

And "Recognizing them releases you from their power." But on this one, the release would be the act of your knowing a control concerning this. Basically your accepting and instituting your choice of responsibility concerning the aspects of it.

Oh, and I liked your spelling for magick. The extra k gives it a kick.
: )

Much thanks (Mr. ?) LoneShaman
 
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#69
I particularly like your: "Propaganda is a way to create an egragore that grows as concepts are fed into it. It then has the power to influence. Has a covid 19 egragore been created and fed?"

And "Recognizing them releases you from their power." But on this one, the release would be the act of your knowing a control concerning this. Basically your accepting and instituting your choice of responsibility concerning the aspects of it.

Oh, and I liked your spelling for magick. The extra k gives it a kick.
: )

Much thanks (Mr. ?) LoneShaman
Ahhh good old magick
 
#70
Ahhh good old magick
It's funny... this thing - "the magical" [experiential] and then... "magick" [intentional]. Alex, for example, made it clear as to his position on "magick." Magick, to me... is like cheating.

Yet - when I shut things down into "five-sense hell"... meaning, I listen to "the sane" tell me, "Dude, you gotta live in reality, man!"... what always ends up happening is that I first feel some strange type of security [but it never lasts] and then I recognize a creeping boredom followed by a low-level depression. It eventually becomes a bit emotional and then I hit a "mini-bottom" where I realize my error was in casting aside the magical and so I open the connection once again to the magical reality and suddenly life [ie. mundane life] comes to Life! Meaning begins to flow once again. This is my favorite place.

I then find some new book on magick or a new "history" book about some well known or notorious practitioners and I read "seeking to understand what motivates them" and I remind myself once again why I'm not attracted to intentional magick. I can't escape the feeling that its cheating.

 
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#71
It's funny... this thing - "the magical" [experiential] and then... "magick" [intentional]. Alex, for example, made it clear as to his position on "magick." Magick, to me... is like cheating.

Yet - when I shut things down into "five-sense hell"... meaning, I listen to "the sane" tell me, "Dude, you gotta live in reality, man!"... what always ends up happening is that I first feel some strange type of security [but it never lasts] and then I recognize a creeping boredom followed by a low-level depression. It eventually becomes a bit emotional and then I hit a "mini-bottom" where I realize my error was in casting aside the magical and so I open the connection once again to the magical reality and suddenly life [ie. mundane life] comes to Life! Meaning begins to flow once again. This is my favorite place.

I then find some new book on magick or a new "history" book about some well known or notorious practitioners and I read "seeking to understand what motivates them" and I remind myself once again why I'm not attracted to intentional magick. I can't escape the feeling that its cheating.

Very interesting what you shared about how you feel, Sam. I go through the same process from time to time. I know exactly what you mean. Well described!

IMO, life/reality is more metaphorical than we often like to accept - and of course materialists deny the metaphorical aspect entirely, but my experience says they are wrong; or at least seeing and dedicating their energy to only a sliver of the whole.

Anything put out there as a concept - virus, terrorist, capitalism/socialism, freedom, UFO, Big Foot, you name it, becomes an energy center - almost like a living entity - as more people focus on it. As they say, it "takes on a life of its own". The nature of that life depends on the nature of the energy we give to it and take from it. It can evolve like any living thing.

A skilled magician/propagandist can introduce new entities into the public's field of awareness - or alter existing ones.
 
#72
It's funny... this thing - "the magical" [experiential] and then... "magick" [intentional]. Alex, for example, made it clear as to his position on "magick." Magick, to me... is like cheating.

Yet - when I shut things down into "five-sense hell"... meaning, I listen to "the sane" tell me, "Dude, you gotta live in reality, man!"... what always ends up happening is that I first feel some strange type of security [but it never lasts] and then I recognize a creeping boredom followed by a low-level depression. It eventually becomes a bit emotional and then I hit a "mini-bottom" where I realize my error was in casting aside the magical and so I open the connection once again to the magical reality and suddenly life [ie. mundane life] comes to Life! Meaning begins to flow once again. This is my favorite place.

I then find some new book on magick or a new "history" book about some well known or notorious practitioners and I read "seeking to understand what motivates them" and I remind myself once again why I'm not attracted to intentional magick. I can't escape the feeling that its cheating.

Yes. The magic of experiencing.
The other magic would be another's attempt to invite you (attempt to force you?) into their game plan, yes?

The idea brings me to the question again, "How is it that some have suseptability to one of the various types of victumhood, while others do not?"
I really am open to answers from almost anyone's point of view on this one.

Thank you Sam.
 
#73
Regarding your magic or magic in general

I offer this point of view:

There are these two ideas concerning what magic there is:
1) The sense of magic in everyday's existence. The beauty and wonder in all things being.
and
2) The idea where effects can be performed from a localized source point onto or towards a target or targets without having to have actual physical contact on the targets.

For some reason, most who would desire to engage in (2) never seem to realize they themselves are not local and so the effect created (if actually created) will or has blow-back onto themselves.

Let's have a look at an oversimplified type of magic (2) commonly encountered. Advertisements.
The magic here would be the localizing positives concerning the product but also the inclusion of persons in the ad who are displayed representing partakers of the product. Obviously, no one viewing the ad will become the persons depicted, but this magic empowers the sales of the product. It is symbolism used to produce the effect on the viewer.

Whether successful or not in raising the sales figures of the product, this magical depiction of the product making the viewer feel their condition would improve to this depiction will result in blow-back for the persons involved in the producing the ad. Everyone in that chain of production that resulted in the ad going up will have blow-back to the degree the ad might succeed by relying on this aspect of magic: The person observing the ad thinking of himself/herself differently than who or what they are. These people are in the zeitgeist with the producers. Eventually when the ad producers need these people to know who or what they actually are, they can not receive that help from them.

Further blow-back on this comes long after the act. When pretty much everyone forgot about that magic working. The producer (from the past having moved with everyone else to this new present time) gets angry because these people refuse to know who or what they are. And this past producer can become rather completely baffled as to why these people are "so dumb". This producer is now selling truth but has forgotten how his magic worked in the lie to them.
The producer forgot what he did to help bring about such stupidity. The producer forgot how he gained at that time from his action into the zeitgeist then.

That was a rather simplified example. Other examples of magic in the style of (2) would be voodoo, astral walking to affect some one some where, or praying to a god to do it for you.

As we all are non-local we all go to a next moment. We remain as we are even though we are in a next moment. This is the meaning of non-local. It is not limited to one moment. Not limited to one place.
What we did in an earlier moment is affecting what we are experiencing in this new moment. What we are doing now (present time) affects what we are (present time) experiencing in that future. We are the same person spanned through this time. This is how Terence McKenna achieved his idea of your future is pulling you to it. The future affecting the past. You are non-local.

Looking these over, we might be able to recognize how or where we (as localized selfs) became susceptible to one of the many kinds of available victimhoods. And how some things that should be happening now, are not happening now.

Alright.

There is no value in imprisoning anyone within a limited data set. If left alone at what was relayed above, one could lead himself into thinking wrongs in one time become enforced affects onto another time (like karma).
This aspect is not true. But, no, I am not contradicting myself. For the effect to have the blow-back it is required that the person doing the magic forget that he has done it. Or, not recognize what he has done.
Forgetting or not recognizing then supports blaming. This blaming puts a kind of spin into the situation and snarls up all parties present in that new present time.

Let's take a look at another example of where a limiting of the full true data can lead to imprisonment of the one innocently trying to use the sectioned-off piece of data that was allowed to him.
There is the story of advice to someone who is struck on the cheek. The advice is to turn the head and offer the other cheek to be struck as well. In itself the data is true and could be helpful but it is incomplete. The complete data might be, the first strike was probably earned. And offering the other strike is an effective attempt to imprison the striker. Furthermore, this second strike offering with such intent is going to have blow-back if the offering person forgets his attempt was to imprison this striker by making him believe he victimized the one struck.

So, susceptibility to victimhood could be considered, "Having had the willingness to imprison others or another without also being willing to know you did that."

Surprisingly simple, all this comes down to personal awareness. How broad is your awareness and how willing are you to be aware? Aware of self. Ok. Aware of others - meaning aware as though you are those others? Aware of your having effected yourself? Aware of your having effected others or another?

It is true that blame is only effective in the presence of minimized awareness. The idea of "wrong" or "right" is only possible in the presence of minimized or localized awareness.

In other words, "What will you not allow yourself to know?"
This makes you susceptible to that victimhood.
 
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#74
It's funny... this thing - "the magical" [experiential] and then... "magick" [intentional]. Alex, for example, made it clear as to his position on "magick." Magick, to me... is like cheating.

Yet - when I shut things down into "five-sense hell"... meaning, I listen to "the sane" tell me, "Dude, you gotta live in reality, man!"... what always ends up happening is that I first feel some strange type of security [but it never lasts] and then I recognize a creeping boredom followed by a low-level depression. It eventually becomes a bit emotional and then I hit a "mini-bottom" where I realize my error was in casting aside the magical and so I open the connection once again to the magical reality and suddenly life [ie. mundane life] comes to Life! Meaning begins to flow once again. This is my favorite place.

I then find some new book on magick or a new "history" book about some well known or notorious practitioners and I read "seeking to understand what motivates them" and I remind myself once again why I'm not attracted to intentional magick. I can't escape the feeling that its cheating.

Yea when I took my class on magick our teacher warned us it was dangerous. I still signed up, but I never really casted a spell. I was more a Mystic as in I studied it but never applied it. For one everyone's magick is different, some were Christian, some atheist, voodun and ifa, santeria, chaos magick. It was very interesting but I couldn't put my eggs in one basket. For me it seemed like cheating, then I realized how? Is going to the gym 6 days a week cheating. How is gaining mastery over your life cheating? The thing is with magick there are really no rules or dogma it's fuzzy and really subjective.

From my observation the African Americans and ethnic Latinos swore up and down black magick is not bad. I was confused as black magick has a big stigma attached to it. The rest of the class had a lot of hipster, yuppie types and everything in between. Some "worked" with God's and angels, but the teachers warned that the angels don't care about humans and they have a polarity as well as "demons" the weird thing is the teacher said he preferred atheistic thinkers and magicians. Honestly what I realized was I had to learn everyone's language as we came in to different understanding, for me magick was using my will to facilitate growth within myself and do my part to help people.

That didn't go to plan there was something off about the place, I sensed some people had mental illnesses (not all) lots of practitioners were feminists and their was a good portion of homosexuals who were shunned from church and family (nothing wrong with that) lots of spells didn't work and then some subjective excuse would be made up. But I thought how could I agree with that with no evidence? One time some tripped and fell and people claimed it was because of a curse? My skepticism grew. I will say though one dude read my mind and it was vague or broad at all. I'm beginning to think magic is utilizing your magnetism, our animal magnetism, for me it has nothing to do with spirits or God's it's just our suppressed mental capacities, aka it's natural and magick is honing that magnetism. It was pretty much self hyponosis, but the characters attracted to this stuff were a dumpster fire, I did meet some cool people though, one of the kindest souls I met was at that class.

All in all I left skeptical and confused, a good portion of people believe black magick is bad, some say its intent and ethic people swear its not bad and Europeans labeled it bad and demonized it. To them black magick was your subconscious mind, but who knows what lurks there? And after reading about Epi genetic memories from your ancestors yea..... I dunno if anyone is ready for that type of stuff
 
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#75
My idea of magick was turning myself in to a superhero and using my powers against the evil powers that be lol. Let's be honest love and light won't get you far, you need that integrated magick right? I think that's what they meant about using black magick it needs to be properly integrated.

Kind of like the Carl Jung quote
 
#77
Yea when I took my class on magick our teacher warned us it was dangerous. I still signed up, but I never really casted a spell. I was more a Mystic as in I studied it but never applied it. For one everyone's magick is different, some were Christian, some atheist, voodun and ifa, santeria, chaos magick. It was very interesting but I couldn't put my eggs in one basket. For me it seemed like cheating, then I realized how? Is going to the gym 6 days a week cheating. How is gaining mastery over your life cheating? The thing is with magick there are really no rules or dogma it's fuzzy and really subjective.

From my observation the African Americans and ethnic Latinos swore up and down black magick is not bad. I was confused as black magick has a big stigma attached to it. The rest of the class had a lot of hipster, yuppie types and everything in between. Some "worked" with God's and angels, but the teachers warned that the angels don't care about humans and they have a polarity as well as "demons" the weird thing is the teacher said he preferred atheistic thinkers and magicians. Honestly what I realized was I had to learn everyone's language as we came in to different understanding, for me magick was using my will to facilitate growth within myself and do my part to help people.

That didn't go to plan there was something off about the place, I sensed some people had mental illnesses (not all) lots of practitioners were feminists and their was a good portion of homosexuals who were shunned from church and family (nothing wrong with that) lots of spells didn't work and then some subjective excuse would be made up. But I thought how could I agree with that with no evidence? One time some tripped and fell and people claimed it was because of a curse? My skepticism grew. I will say though one dude read my mind and it was vague or broad at all. I'm beginning to think magic is utilizing your magnetism, our animal magnetism, for me it has nothing to do with spirits or God's it's just our suppressed mental capacities, aka it's natural and magick is honing that magnetism. It was pretty much self hyponosis, but the characters attracted to this stuff were a dumpster fire, I did meet some cool people though, one of the kindest souls I met was at that class.

All in all I left skeptical and confused, a good portion of people believe black magick is bad, some say its intent and ethic people swear its not bad and Europeans labeled it bad and demonized it. To them black magick was your subconscious mind, but who knows what lurks there? And after reading about Epi genetic memories from your ancestors yea..... I dunno if anyone is ready for that type of stuff
Oh there are some who are ready.
 
#78
My idea of magick was turning myself in to a superhero and using my powers against the evil powers that be lol. Let's be honest love and light won't get you far, you need that integrated magick right? I think that's what they meant about using black magick it needs to be properly integrated.

Kind of like the Carl Jung quote
"...you need that integrated magick right?"
You do indeed.
 
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#79
So dark magick to me means =dark recesses of your subconscious psyche. White magick =your conscious mind. It's a very thin line, and that's why I'm warning this message board be careful with staring in to the abyss with these topics cause you can lose your mind but to each their own. Just have a strong inner conviction.
If you do shadow work do it very slowly and patiently.
 
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