Miguel Conner, Gnosticism and the Evil Question |446|
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B
I know a girl who let God and Jesus get her crazy as well, actually a few people. I also noticed many people have the same paranoid experiences when high. I've talked to many who shared similar experiences with Marijuana that it made them quit smoking for good. Hearing their stories I was like wow that was intense, wonder why it has that affect?
The effect of marijuana when ingested via eating it, baking it into cakes, cookies, and/or tea was, for me, completely different than the high I would get from my favorite form of smoking it - using a bong. Any form of smoking it, for me, was my favorite way because of the effect, but the bong was the best of all. The immediate arising of psi type experiences, especially synchronicity, which was never better than that last stretch of time where I began to use in mid-August of 2010 (after using no drugs or alcohol for 5 months straight) and where I only used marijuana... the first 14 or so months were incredible. Never had I experienced such amazing "stuff" related to psi... and then, it went dark (as I described above).
The story is complicated. In addition, I went through years of an interesting investigation based on a theory that my Dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination. I won't share the current conclusions of that investigation right now.
My Dad left no note. My Dad's wife (my step-mother, Ginger) had died on March 15th, 1979 (the Ides of March) at age 40 from pancreatic cancer. They had been married 13 years and I believe he deeply loved her. On June 26, 1979 my Dad committed suicide (3 months and 11 days after Ginger died). There was no note... at least no note I was allowed to see. Many years later, my step-brother, the only child of my Dad and Step-Mom told me he was told there was a note but no one that should have known that ever validated his claim. My step-brother was 1 1/2 years old when both his Mom and his Dad were dead. He was raised by his maternal grand mother who lived in California.
When my Step-Mom died, there were all sorts of powerful pain drugs she had never taken (she refused the medication). It was those pills that my Dad used to commit suicide. We were told he had taken about 25 each of five different kinds of these pain drugs. I remember one was morphine, another was something called Dilaudid... I may have been the last person he spoke with or my sister. He called us just before noon that day and told each of us "a story" that he had to leave town "to get some money" for some bookie he owed. I begged him to let me go with him (because I knew something was wrong). He lied to me and told me he had hired an armed security guard and a private plane to go to Louisiana to get the money (we lived in Dallas at this time but many years before had lived in Lafayette, Louisiana... and he had bragged in the past he had "done a favor for Carlos Marcello," and I bought his lie thinking he was tapping some old connections for a street loan.
He promised me he would call on Wednesday evening and if not, would be home sometime Thursday. When I got no call Wednesday, and because my intuition was already on high alert (note, I was 21 years old at the time), when he didn't show by the afternoon on Thursday, I called the family lawyer (who was more like a family friend) and he said that if Dad didn't show up by the end of the evening, call him in the morning. Dad was a no show and so I called him and he said he'd go to my Dad's office/apartment at lunch to see if he could try and get some information somehow.
He found my Dad dead... saw him hunched over at his desk when he peered through a non-curtained sliding glass door, rushed to the manager's office, and they went in to discover the sad reality. Rust (his name) told me that he had been clearly dead for days. Thus we are pretty certain he did the deed just after he spoke with my sister and I, three days earlier.
About ten years after his death, I got my first clue there may have been more to the story... but this is all I am able to share for now.
The story is complicated. In addition, I went through years of an interesting investigation based on a theory that my Dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination. I won't share the current conclusions of that investigation right now.
My Dad left no note. My Dad's wife (my step-mother, Ginger) had died on March 15th, 1979 (the Ides of March) at age 40 from pancreatic cancer. They had been married 13 years and I believe he deeply loved her. On June 26, 1979 my Dad committed suicide (3 months and 11 days after Ginger died). There was no note... at least no note I was allowed to see. Many years later, my step-brother, the only child of my Dad and Step-Mom told me he was told there was a note but no one that should have known that ever validated his claim. My step-brother was 1 1/2 years old when both his Mom and his Dad were dead. He was raised by his maternal grand mother who lived in California.
When my Step-Mom died, there were all sorts of powerful pain drugs she had never taken (she refused the medication). It was those pills that my Dad used to commit suicide. We were told he had taken about 25 each of five different kinds of these pain drugs. I remember one was morphine, another was something called Dilaudid... I may have been the last person he spoke with or my sister. He called us just before noon that day and told each of us "a story" that he had to leave town "to get some money" for some bookie he owed. I begged him to let me go with him (because I knew something was wrong). He lied to me and told me he had hired an armed security guard and a private plane to go to Louisiana to get the money (we lived in Dallas at this time but many years before had lived in Lafayette, Louisiana... and he had bragged in the past he had "done a favor for Carlos Marcello," and I bought his lie thinking he was tapping some old connections for a street loan.
He promised me he would call on Wednesday evening and if not, would be home sometime Thursday. When I got no call Wednesday, and because my intuition was already on high alert (note, I was 21 years old at the time), when he didn't show by the afternoon on Thursday, I called the family lawyer (who was more like a family friend) and he said that if Dad didn't show up by the end of the evening, call him in the morning. Dad was a no show and so I called him and he said he'd go to my Dad's office/apartment at lunch to see if he could try and get some information somehow.
He found my Dad dead... saw him hunched over at his desk when he peered through a non-curtained sliding glass door, rushed to the manager's office, and they went in to discover the sad reality. Rust (his name) told me that he had been clearly dead for days. Thus we are pretty certain he did the deed just after he spoke with my sister and I, three days earlier.
About ten years after his death, I got my first clue there may have been more to the story... but this is all I am able to share for now.
My "current most likely theory" is that this is essentially synchromysticismic... and definitely influenced by the culture(s) I have been exposed to this life... almost as if they are convenient paradigms within which shadow and "other" can arise, yet, remain relatively disguised by my own affinity to endless "details" (as if "figuring it all out will be the way I am able to escape). And, if I dare dive deeply into my personal shadow regions of my sub-conscious (as I actually have been doing) I come more face to face with my "real self" (which, paradoxically, I see as pure illusion yet an illusion of my own creation... an illusion I have empowered all and only to make things interesting.
And indeed they have been quite interesting.
And indeed they have been quite interesting.
B
When you mentioned the messiah something clicked. When you have or create this complex you are essentially creating another persona in your psyche, creating a messiah complex is full of ego, many new agers suffer from it, preachers, priests etc. It reminds me and brings in the perspective of "transcending good and evil" which are concepts, maybe thats why I'm taking a like to Buddhism and Tao like stuff. Christians have this messiah complex about other cultures mythos and religions and philosophies. In fact Jeffery mishlove posted a video today about dark mysticism, and some of the comments weren't nice. They Christian complex struck again, when people practice Christianity it's good mysticism if not it's bad.
This goes back to the concept of transcending good and evil, either path is essentially the same path one is taking the bus to the destination the other the train. Cause in the end they are are personified ego complexes that you create
This goes back to the concept of transcending good and evil, either path is essentially the same path one is taking the bus to the destination the other the train. Cause in the end they are are personified ego complexes that you create
Thankfully, I reached all of these same conclusions a few years ago. Even still, I still catch myself wanting to 'do something" that "will help this world." So I know the monster (inside) and at least now I am able to identify it when it rises up from within. I would like to say I am "working on" getting rid of it... but I think you make the better point - replacing that space with that which has none of this "good and evil" stuff that seems to have originated (if not before) from Zoroastrianism.
I am currently enjoying Miguel Conner's recent interview that interesting covers this to some extent -
Note, when I finish this, I plan to explore Alex's latest with Anthony Peake - Skeptiko #447
I am currently enjoying Miguel Conner's recent interview that interesting covers this to some extent -
Note, when I finish this, I plan to explore Alex's latest with Anthony Peake - Skeptiko #447
Well, in my case, I somehow survived through it all. If I recall, it was Aleister Crowley to whom the following quote can be attributed:
and I had that drive to "get out." Another thing I had going for me was actually a combination of two things, the first being that I have always been incredibly curious and always asked, "Why?" about anything and everything... and the second thing was this strange "psi trait" if you will, with regards to synchronicity. And why these two helped me was because I studied literally everything, every religion, every thought system, all sorts of philosophies, indigenous beliefs, etc. and I studied all things "conspiracy" as well as all things "UFO."
And what would happen is that when I read something or listened to something that "grabbed me emotionally" I would then have all sorts of synchronicities about it. And in the early days, I interpreted that experience to be "God" telling me I was on the right track! But get this, I had these same experiences with all the occult stuff too, and with apparently opposing religious paradigms. And incredibly enough, it was Skeptiko that "saved me" (haha... Alex!) from all this as I started looking at all these psi experiences and the synchronicities as simply an experience available to one who has the capacity for that opening to and participating in the extended consciousness realms without needing to explain it within any particular paradigm. - whether Christian or Satanic or Hindu or Voodoo or atheist or New Age or, or, or...
And from there I made an ordinary consciousness level of consciousness decision that I would simply explore the nature and science of being and intentionally keep myself from seeing any of it within any paradigm... and the only assumption I hold to is that consciousness is fundamental BUT, understand, even this assumption... I know it is all and only an assumption and so I am in charge on this one as opposed to my assumption being in charge of me - which is what I "believe" a belief is. haha
Adding - It seems to me that one can assume consciousness is fundamental and not "be" any of the labels, including "atheist" as so many of the atheists I know are just as militant as some of the fundamentalist Christians I know and the one thing both of them have in common is "God" as a third party - either to "believe in Him" or to claim you don't believe in him yet also claim as a certainty that materialism and/or physicalism and/or scientism is the basis of reality.
and I had that drive to "get out." Another thing I had going for me was actually a combination of two things, the first being that I have always been incredibly curious and always asked, "Why?" about anything and everything... and the second thing was this strange "psi trait" if you will, with regards to synchronicity. And why these two helped me was because I studied literally everything, every religion, every thought system, all sorts of philosophies, indigenous beliefs, etc. and I studied all things "conspiracy" as well as all things "UFO."
And what would happen is that when I read something or listened to something that "grabbed me emotionally" I would then have all sorts of synchronicities about it. And in the early days, I interpreted that experience to be "God" telling me I was on the right track! But get this, I had these same experiences with all the occult stuff too, and with apparently opposing religious paradigms. And incredibly enough, it was Skeptiko that "saved me" (haha... Alex!) from all this as I started looking at all these psi experiences and the synchronicities as simply an experience available to one who has the capacity for that opening to and participating in the extended consciousness realms without needing to explain it within any particular paradigm. - whether Christian or Satanic or Hindu or Voodoo or atheist or New Age or, or, or...
And from there I made an ordinary consciousness level of consciousness decision that I would simply explore the nature and science of being and intentionally keep myself from seeing any of it within any paradigm... and the only assumption I hold to is that consciousness is fundamental BUT, understand, even this assumption... I know it is all and only an assumption and so I am in charge on this one as opposed to my assumption being in charge of me - which is what I "believe" a belief is. haha
Adding - It seems to me that one can assume consciousness is fundamental and not "be" any of the labels, including "atheist" as so many of the atheists I know are just as militant as some of the fundamentalist Christians I know and the one thing both of them have in common is "God" as a third party - either to "believe in Him" or to claim you don't believe in him yet also claim as a certainty that materialism and/or physicalism and/or scientism is the basis of reality.
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Opinion:
This part, to me, is more spiritual... the coming to know the source of the interesting things to see. Himself the source.
Once you know, the choice to do then returns to yours. Meaning, what you think returns to your control.
Spiritually speaking, there is no "in" or place for reference.
There can be these (an in and a place) physically or mentally.
But spiritually, there are not these two things.
It takes some getting used to, knowing what is your creation and what is not your creation, but not holding opinions to either helps the experience to remain just an experience. No need for any responding.
Such all is "take it or leave it" and then attending back to the solely physical playing field to see what might be there more interesting.
Currently, I have some working out of the others' opinions into rote methods of categorizing for myself. Their opinions are important to recognize. That is if desiring to play with them (the persons) within their desire sets.
This part, to me, is more spiritual... the coming to know the source of the interesting things to see. Himself the source.
Once you know, the choice to do then returns to yours. Meaning, what you think returns to your control.
Spiritually speaking, there is no "in" or place for reference.
There can be these (an in and a place) physically or mentally.
But spiritually, there are not these two things.
It takes some getting used to, knowing what is your creation and what is not your creation, but not holding opinions to either helps the experience to remain just an experience. No need for any responding.
Such all is "take it or leave it" and then attending back to the solely physical playing field to see what might be there more interesting.
Currently, I have some working out of the others' opinions into rote methods of categorizing for myself. Their opinions are important to recognize. That is if desiring to play with them (the persons) within their desire sets.
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First, well done for surviving these 'episodes.' It cannot have been easy. You must be made of tough stuff. Respect.
It's interesting to note that even meditation can precipitate severe breakdowns in some people. Perhaps this is the importance of paradigms and traditions: They give direction on how to do things safely, or at least minimize risk. For example, many Buddhist and Hindu systems strongly advise against the novice (and not just the novice) paying too much attention to PSI and various other extended consciousness phenomena. Certain strains of Christian prayer practice also give guidance on how to interpret strange happenings - often suggesting a scaling back of ones regimen when they occur.
Unlike Baccarat, I see holding on to value judgements like 'good' and 'bad' to be absolutely essential here. Otherwise, what possible reference points can we have? And without reference points, how can we possibly know where we are and how to act? I suppose this is true in both a spiritual and geographic way.
It's interesting to note that even meditation can precipitate severe breakdowns in some people. Perhaps this is the importance of paradigms and traditions: They give direction on how to do things safely, or at least minimize risk. For example, many Buddhist and Hindu systems strongly advise against the novice (and not just the novice) paying too much attention to PSI and various other extended consciousness phenomena. Certain strains of Christian prayer practice also give guidance on how to interpret strange happenings - often suggesting a scaling back of ones regimen when they occur.
Unlike Baccarat, I see holding on to value judgements like 'good' and 'bad' to be absolutely essential here. Otherwise, what possible reference points can we have? And without reference points, how can we possibly know where we are and how to act? I suppose this is true in both a spiritual and geographic way.
About the right/wrong concern, my writing might have suggested to disregard the poles, but this is not the intention of the writing.
The intention was to allow for other types significances, most notably desirable/undesirable.
This offering was to relieve the effort (strain) of holding the undesired pole (say "wrong") to relieve holding that field and holding it with actual incidents which can seem absorb attention.
Attention being the main tool needed in creating a reality.
Note:
Creating reality in that sentence does not refer to physical reality. This physical reality seems not to require attention for its existence. It just might be that physical reality does not need life for physical to exist. It might be that it can exist independent of life.
But we I believe do need life to exist for us to exist.
If life did not exist, the physical might continue to exist but it may be that we would no longer exist.
There is the other side of the coin where the physical depends on life for its existence.
But I do not have certainty enough on either side of that coin. How in the hell could it be proven either way?
The intention was to allow for other types significances, most notably desirable/undesirable.
This offering was to relieve the effort (strain) of holding the undesired pole (say "wrong") to relieve holding that field and holding it with actual incidents which can seem absorb attention.
Attention being the main tool needed in creating a reality.
Note:
Creating reality in that sentence does not refer to physical reality. This physical reality seems not to require attention for its existence. It just might be that physical reality does not need life for physical to exist. It might be that it can exist independent of life.
But we I believe do need life to exist for us to exist.
If life did not exist, the physical might continue to exist but it may be that we would no longer exist.
There is the other side of the coin where the physical depends on life for its existence.
But I do not have certainty enough on either side of that coin. How in the hell could it be proven either way?
[note: I did not understand dp's statement aimed towards Bacarrat - and still don't... I must have missed something further up the thread - I am getting senile].
I no longer like to participate in the "good"/"bad" relativistic dichotomy... IMO there is no 3rd party "decider" as to what is "good" and what is "bad." I still find myself making the mistake in labeling something as good or bad as if it is a universal truth. I do not like it (or myself) when I find that I have imposed my morals and/or ethics upon others as if I am the Prime Authority and yet sometimes I still do (being honest).
I am glad for you, Baccarat, if you have escaped this "habit" that seems like nothing but a trap.
I have thought about Alex's exploration of "good" and "evil" and have concluded that what I like is that which is life creating / life preserving (thus, for me... this is "good") and what I do not like is that which appears to be life restricting / life destroying (thus, for me... this is "evil").
The current trend on Earth appears to be bent on removing personal freedoms from the population of the masses. Life, for me, is not life without freedom to live, freedom to experience life freely. Thus, I have decided that the current "consensus reality powers that be" are, as a group, evil. But understand, this is all and only my personal view and if I try and impose my views or opinions on others, I have become a very part of that same group I am labeling as "evil."
I no longer like to participate in the "good"/"bad" relativistic dichotomy... IMO there is no 3rd party "decider" as to what is "good" and what is "bad." I still find myself making the mistake in labeling something as good or bad as if it is a universal truth. I do not like it (or myself) when I find that I have imposed my morals and/or ethics upon others as if I am the Prime Authority and yet sometimes I still do (being honest).
I am glad for you, Baccarat, if you have escaped this "habit" that seems like nothing but a trap.
I have thought about Alex's exploration of "good" and "evil" and have concluded that what I like is that which is life creating / life preserving (thus, for me... this is "good") and what I do not like is that which appears to be life restricting / life destroying (thus, for me... this is "evil").
The current trend on Earth appears to be bent on removing personal freedoms from the population of the masses. Life, for me, is not life without freedom to live, freedom to experience life freely. Thus, I have decided that the current "consensus reality powers that be" are, as a group, evil. But understand, this is all and only my personal view and if I try and impose my views or opinions on others, I have become a very part of that same group I am labeling as "evil."
Disembarking from the boat, Baccarat seems to have transcended much of the right/wrong good/bad valuable/valueless fortressing required in games conditions.
In such boat there are encounters of unreasonable disagreement. By unreasonable (assuming one is a reasoning person) I mean the thing encountered does not reason with you. Hence some unwinnable warring... and much attention diverted from some of the more beautiful aspects available to living. If in that game (that boat) it is much hard to release attention (attention is the tool of creating) from the offending opposition (whose field for existence is created with the attention).
In such boat there are encounters of unreasonable disagreement. By unreasonable (assuming one is a reasoning person) I mean the thing encountered does not reason with you. Hence some unwinnable warring... and much attention diverted from some of the more beautiful aspects available to living. If in that game (that boat) it is much hard to release attention (attention is the tool of creating) from the offending opposition (whose field for existence is created with the attention).
On the other hand (and why do we have to have the other hand?) there is the truth (not just fact but truth) that existing within a physical condition, there is no choice but that one is in a playing field (a game area).
The gaming seems enforced. That gaming is a requirement of being physical.
The most key aspect to the physical is membrane. The physics of "quantum" holds that there are no membranes. So, it is sort of opposite. But anyway, this membrane part is reflected in our locking our home doors when we leave. Our locking the car doors. Or marrying. Or drawing up a contract. You know, such membraning of things and agreements. The dividing point between what is encompassed and what is not encompassed within the thing.
While physical, these membranes exist. Like it or not. And that is what conditions the thing as game.
The gaming seems enforced. That gaming is a requirement of being physical.
The most key aspect to the physical is membrane. The physics of "quantum" holds that there are no membranes. So, it is sort of opposite. But anyway, this membrane part is reflected in our locking our home doors when we leave. Our locking the car doors. Or marrying. Or drawing up a contract. You know, such membraning of things and agreements. The dividing point between what is encompassed and what is not encompassed within the thing.
While physical, these membranes exist. Like it or not. And that is what conditions the thing as game.