Miraculous medium-healers of Brazil

#43
I re-read the book and spotted some more interesting infornation in regards to the success of the medium healers. This statement was in regards to healer Maricopa Magalhaes, "During one field trip, two U.S. physicians who were research colleagues of mine conducted some pre- and postsurgical examinations. All this work confirmed that operations such as removing growths and scraping eyes had very high success rates without evident infections or postoperative complications" (Greenfield, 2008).
 
#44
Here's a recent interview with Greenfield (2009). It has some footage that I mentioned with the healer utilizing an electric saw on their patient's back. The healer displayed only has a first grade level education.
 
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#45
Andrija Puharich wierdest cut parts 1 & 2

These two short clips are worth watching, in which he relates some of his first hand experiences with Arigo & another psychic surgeon > Pachita ( Mexican I think) who actually carried out organ transplants


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Guy Lyon Playfair ( who was on episode 139) would be good to return again to speak of his experiences in Brazil.
His book 'the flying cow' is all about the Brazilian psychics
 
#47
Here's a recent interview with Greenfield (2009). It has some footage that I mentioned with the healer utilizing an electric saw on their patient's back. The healer displayed only has a first grade level education.
I don't know anything about this subject but I've been following the posts with interest to learn something. Of course, I knew about the "guys" who press their fingers into abdomens and "palm" chicken blood etc but this is clearly of a different level. I found the video of Professor Greenfield really interesting. An anthropologist who believes in reincarnation and spirit healers ! (29 minutes)
The other guy was strangely likeable too, the whole interview is raucous, amateurish and unscripted but that's what makes it great entertainment ! Initially, I thought it was something from the 1970's until I realised that didn't fit the ages of the participants.

And the ending is sublime with the previously very vocal but courteous interviewer giving Greenfield a piece of his mind about Sydney's lack of scientific reasoning :) The angle grinder (Jeez) is possibly the least of this stuff but thanks for posting it.
 
#48
Haha yes, it does look like it was filmed with a 90's camcorder!

It's very obvious that something was going on beyond our current understanding of how things work. Greenfield studied these healers for 25 years, what he witnessed and documented clearly affected his outlook of the world. Greenfield's message is to open your mind, there's more to the world than what meets the eye.
 
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#49
Haha yes, it does look like it was filmed with a 90's camcorder!
Well it's more the setting and old fashioned backdrop, colonial style maybe.

And I don't know what's going on especially with the utilisation of an "angle grinder" up and down someone's spine. I've used that tool myself on both metal and concrete (different discs required) and it would cut through tissue and bone as easily as a hot knife cuts through butter. I can't comprehend what possible helpful surgical effects it would have other than total destruction of the vertebrae and spinal cord. A bit like operating on someone's head with a mechanical excavator !

I'm not judging though, I'm truly baffled.

Greenfield studied these healers for 25 years, what he witnessed and documented clearly affected his outlook of the world.
Point taken.[/QUOTE]
 
#50
The angle grinder section is pretty insane. The scene before the angle grinder is strange as well. The guy getting operated on is literally looking at his abdomen while it is being sliced open, with no negative reaction or pain.....that's very surreal.
 
#51
The angle grinder section is pretty insane. The scene before the angle grinder is strange as well. The guy getting operated on is literally looking at his abdomen while it is being sliced open, with no negative reaction or pain.....that's very surreal.
I'll continue to follow this thread but I probably won't be making any more comments as I don't have anything useful to offer other than expressing bewilderment, which is of little value. I've "spoken" to several doctors who have told me that they've seen things occur that they (medically) can't explain. I think
this phenomenon would be way beyond their "boggle factor" but if someone can collect data (scientifically) on the patients before and after that would be a necessary bottom line, I guess.

Maybe that's been done. For me, if there is something "real" going on here, (if the dead can really affect the living with a cure) I would think it's best left where it is because although I accept that we have a spirit or a "soul," the concept of "spiritual doctors/operations" would IMHO open the door to all kinds of quackery and send many people off the deep end. Just my thoughts .
 
#52
I'll continue to follow this thread but I probably won't be making any more comments as I don't have anything useful to offer other than expressing bewilderment, which is of little value. I've "spoken" to several doctors who have told me that they've seen things occur that they (medically) can't explain. I think
this phenomenon would be way beyond their "boggle factor" but if someone can collect data (scientifically) on the patients before and after that would be a necessary bottom line, I guess.

Maybe that's been done. For me, if there is something "real" going on here, (if the dead can really affect the living with a cure) I would think it's best left where it is because although I accept that we have a spirit or a "soul," the concept of "spiritual doctors/operations" would IMHO open the door to all kinds of quackery and send many people off the deep end. Just my thoughts .
There's plenty of "quackery" in mainstream medicine too Tim. If it works for the subjects and they're keeping their options open I'd say it's their choice. If anyone is avoiding mainstream medicine for this type of approach I'd think it's because a) they can't afford/access mainstream medicine, b) mainstream medicine has failed them or c) they've tried it before and it has worked or someone they know has - either way they're not interested in some intellectual debate about it. :)
 
#53
There's plenty of "quackery" in mainstream medicine too Tim
Could you be more specific, Obiwan ? I'm aware that mainstream medicine is not without flaws. I would guess you're not suggesting that doctors don't necessarily need to bother to scrub in before operating ?

If it works for the subjects and they're keeping their options open I'd say it's their choice
Of course but I don't think I said otherwise, did I ? ;)

either way they're not interested in some intellectual debate about it.
If I was a paraplegic, I'd be more than a bit sceptical if someone clamed to be able to make me walk again by giving me 3000 rpm deep into my spine with an angle grinder. So I think we need to be extremely sceptical, but you are...usually :)
 
#54
Could you be more specific, Obiwan ? I'm aware that mainstream medicine is not without flaws. I would guess you're not suggesting that doctors don't necessarily need to bother to scrub in before operating ?
Well here's one example - doctors recommending smoking as an expectorant. They don't now of course, but some certainly have in my lifetime. Prescribing antibiotics when they know they're not going to help but the patient demands it. Don't get me wrong I think modern medicine is amazing and in much of the world it is regulated nevertheless there are doctors who will prescribe treatments that they know will not work and however they justify it to themselves, sometimes it's simply quackery AFAICS.

Of course but I don't think I said otherwise, did I ? ;)
No you didn't. :)


If I was a paraplegic, I'd be more than a bit sceptical if someone clamed to be able to make me walk again by giving me 3000 rpm deep into my spine with an angle grinder. So I think we need to be extremely sceptical, but you are...usually :)
Scepticism is definitely good. What we don't know is what the subject under the angle-grinder knows or thinks is happening. I wonder if the tool being used it really a prop for something else and that in reality they could achieve the same result with chopsticks (or even nothing at all like the medium George Chapman). It's perhaps just the prop they have chosen. Like a crystal ball. I didn't watch the video - did it work? :)

The problem for scepticism comes when there is so much ostensibly reliable research. There's a lot to be written off.

A lot of mainstream surgery is of course pretty brutal and violent. We''re usually asleep when it happens of course :)

I'm definitely in the don't know category. I hope I never have to rely on finding out for real.
 
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#55
In regards to the prop statement, according to the "spirits", patients could be healed without invasive surgery. However, their purpose for utilizing these brutal displays (without antisepsis and anesthetic) was to prove that what they are doing is unexplainable, at least in our modern understanding. It's kind of like "oh you don't believe this is real....well watch me scrape this guy's cornea with a dirty scalpel". The feats they were performing were so outlandish that they had to be observed and eventually believed. Which is why all of the medium healers were so open to being filmed, photographed, interviewed, etc. They wanted to give proof to the doubters.
 
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#56
There can not be many countries in the world where a medium has been honoured with a commemorative stamp.
Here is Chico Xavier(Francisco Cândido Xavier) doing what he did best - psychography (automatic writing), as well as healing.



I've read most of the books he produced, that have so far been translated into English, & keep looking out for more when they become available.


trailer of biographical film below


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234559/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

The biopic is really well made ,a heartwarming story & has a few twists.
 
#57
Andrija Puharich wierdest cut parts 1 & 2

These two short clips are worth watching, in which he relates some of his first hand experiences with Arigo & another psychic surgeon > Pachita ( Mexican I think) who actually carried out organ transplants
I just re-read "Arigo: Surgeon of the Rusty Knife". In the afterword Puharich gives an account in his involvement with an "eye check up" done by Arigo:

"Arigo grabbed my right hand, thrust the knife into it, and closed his hand around my hand, so that the knife was double enclosed. Then he led my right hand toward the eyeball of the patient and ordered me to put the knife in the eye socket. I followed his orders and plunged the knife between the eyeball and upper lid. As I did so, my right hand went limp- I could not proceed. I feared that I would slash the eyeball and do permanent damage. Arigo again grabbed my right and and said, "Go ahead. Do it like a man!" This order gave me the courage I needed. My fears vanished, as I plunged the knife deeply into the eye socket. Now I was in complete control of myself. As I moved the knife into the depths of the eye socket, I was amazed to discover that the tip of the knife had none of the familiar feel that a knife has against tisse. To give you a complete feeling of what my hand felt, do the following: Take a pair of magnets and find the like poles of each. Then hold one magnet in each hand a bring the like poles toward each other. You will now experience repulsive forces between the two like magnetic poles, and these will be felt in your hands [...] Now when I moved the knife into the tissue of the eyeball and the eye socket, I felt a repulsive force between the tissue and the knife. No matter how hard I pressed in, there was an equal and opposite force acting on my knife to prevent it from touching the tissues." (Puharich, 1974)

I know this is anecdotal, but it was interesting to read a first hand account of an actual joint operation with a medium-healer.
 
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