NDE Life Review and Eating Animals

[Typoz]

The arguments I've usually seen are more related to the here and now than to any implication for a possible future life-review. Those arguments are roughly twofold. First, not eating meat may help to elevate one's level of consciousness, by avoiding absorbing the negative energy of the creature which had itself endured a poor existence. Second by reducing the overall number of animals kept in poor conditions, the environment itself could take on a more uplifting energy, even for those who do not participate.

As for the life review, it usually seems to revolve around a kind of self-assessment, where we may be our own harshest critic. In so doing, it may be that we have our own goals which we aimed for, and consider how well we met them. In that respect, in my opinion, any goals we have should be instinctively part of who we are - unless we have completely lost track and wandered in another direction which may also happen. Here I tend to refer as often to the messages of our dreams, these can guide us towards remembering our goals and helping us stay on track - provided we listen to those dreams. Of course it should also be added that the loose term 'goals' I used tends to be about expressing and being love, but how this translates into practical living may be open to individual circumstances.

 

[Far.From.Here]

I do not think that it has something to do with consciouness. What about people who show strong compassion for animals, but not for humans? Are they on a higher level than people who feel the other way round? Or people who love dogs but hate cats or vice versa. There are as many possibilities as there are humans and no clearly defined borders.
And how are you able to refine, if you always start from scratch so to speak? New parents, new environment, new personality. And again no real freedom to choose, because the options you have always depend on what is in your reach.

We may be using different definitions of the word consciousness. I'm using it in the sense that when you die your physical body becomes inert matter, but what remains is your "consciousness." I hesitate to call it spirit or soul because I'm not of the opinion that the only "thing" left following the demise of the body is the soul or spirit. There isn't really much evidence for that among the information provided by OBE folks or in relevant channelled material. It would seem to me that the true nature of the soul is still occluded following death. The consciousness of the person is still in a quite active process to refine and expose the true nature of the soul even in the "space" that becomes the home following "physical" death.

I honestly don't think it matters what you love or hate in life. You will likely find yourself in a surprisingly similar arrangement following physical death. People with a very low self-awareness may not even be completely aware that they have died. They may live as unaware of death as if they are having a long dream. You are not always aware that you are dreaming while dreaming. Well it seems some folks are not aware that they have "crossed the veil" as it were. I doubt that these folks even experience an explicit life review.

The majority of written material that interests me suggests that real learning is done on this physical plane of existence. Some work can be done "on the other side," but the grunt work is done here. That is why I think it is so important that things like neuroses, fixations and addictions be worked out here, before physical death. Those things are really a kind of suggestive remnant of crap that wasn't really worked out properly in the last "go arounds" in physical life. Got an anger issue? Can't stop an internal voice telling you you are inadequate? Better to dig into those things here.

The channelled material that was "from" T. E. Lawrence was quite interesting on the subject of the life review. His was more of a extended process. And one that began long after he had already settled into the "afterlife."

Your examples above about cats and dogs and people I think may little difference. The key I think is this. Do you honestly feel in your heart that you are doing the right thing? It's golden rule territory. But it also has something to do with the "refinement" of consciousness. Someone who is fundamentally unaware of their own self is also not going to be aware of their "proper" place and activity in the world at large. Awareness and self-awareness and perception. These can all be refined within the housing of this mortal coil. Those skills you will carry into the next world and you will be well glad for it.

All my opinion only, of course. Not intended to be taken as "fact."

 

[Lincoln]

I am enjoying this topic, I have pondered this myself for a while. I wanted to take some time to reflect before weighing in. I have read a good amount of near death experiences, I don't find this particular subject to pop up frequently in them.

I did find this near death experience a while ago which goes into this topic.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/maria_tk's_nde.htm Just copy and paste into your URL bar.

I liked this one very much and found it overall pretty intriguing, it speaks volumes of the transformative power of these experiences.

With my own personal experience, I have to agree with FFH. Whatever place you are born into and whatever beliefs it is grounded in - as far as ideological or the cultures food. You come to a certain age where you can see some practices not being beneficial or objectively just wrong. In America factory farming is hitting levels where sustainability in no way will be maintained. The practices animals are subjected to is straight barbaric and the damage to our environment to feed the animals is catastrophic. Myself I had dogs growing up which I loved very much, but I find it hypocritical to call myself an animal lover, if I choose to keep eating meat in the way it is supplied today. I am in the process of making changes to my diet, I have started incorporating green smoothies everyday into my meals and also am cutting back on meat.

I had a "normal" American diet growing up. Frequent trips to Mcdonalds and the staple of macaroni and cheese and hot dogs, just garbage. If it was not for the insane metabolism I had, burning off whatever was put in my body, I would be obese as a child. Which is something that is commonplace now. Anytime string beans or broccoli was on my plate I would make a fuss. Where now I love eating vegetables and broccoli is one of my favorite foods. If we started children young with whole foods - also not introducing them to fast food poison and ate meat from local farms - this world could be in the process of positive change. Of course we would have to cut back on eating meat as frequently. The reason factory farming exists is because of the demand. This would start putting a dent in factory farming (which can't be seen as anything but wrong) and we would be healthier overall. My friends child eats nothing but chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese - and loves Yoo-Hoo. I don't really know what to say, I have tried telling my friend that he is building unhealthy habits in his son and putting him at health risks. He always replies with "His mother feeds him this, not my fault". So that is where I leave it, it's honestly not my place.

I know I am speaking from a dietary narrative here, but the hunter gatherer practice is slim anymore. And now with corporations laying into local farms, even our most basic needs are another cog in the wheel of industry. I don't know much about a vegan diet. My own diet is lean meat and a ton of vegetables (preferably green). It took me some time to get to where I am at, I had to break free from habits deeply ingrained. I try to have a meal that contains no meat everyday. So I am a work in progress like anyone else.

In respect to taking an animals life, whatever judges you in near death experiences knows your motives. That is honestly all I can say on that particular aspect.

 

[tim]

I am enjoying this topic, I have pondered this myself for a while. I wanted to take some time to reflect before weighing in. I have read a good amount of near death experiences, I don't find this particular subject to pop up frequently in them.

I did find this near death experience a while ago which goes into this topic.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/maria_tk's_nde.htm Just copy and paste into your URL bar.

I liked this one very much and found it overall pretty intriguing, it speaks volumes of the transformative power of these experiences.

With my own personal experience, I have to agree with FFH. Whatever place you are born into and whatever beliefs it is grounded in - as far as ideological or the cultures food. You come to a certain age where you can see some practices not being beneficial or objectively just wrong. In America factory farming is hitting levels where sustainability in no way will be maintained. The practices animals are subjected to is straight barbaric and the damage to our environment to feed the animals is catastrophic. Myself I had dogs growing up which I loved very much, but I find it hypocritical to call myself an animal lover, if I choose to keep eating meat in the way it is supplied today. I am in the process of making changes to my diet, I have started incorporating green smoothies everyday into my meals and also am cutting back on meat.

I had a "normal" American diet growing up. Frequent trips to Mcdonalds and the staple of macaroni and cheese and hot dogs, just garbage. If it was not for the insane metabolism I had, burning off whatever was put in my body, I would be obese as a child. Which is something that is commonplace now. Anytime string beans or broccoli was on my plate I would make a fuss. Where now I love eating vegetables and broccoli is one of my favorite foods. If we started children young with whole foods - also not introducing them to fast food poison and ate meat from local farms - this world could be in the process of positive change. Of course we would have to cut back on eating meat as frequently. The reason factory farming exists is because of the demand. This would start putting a dent in factory farming (which can't be seen as anything but wrong) and we would be healthier overall. My friends child eats nothing but chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese - and loves Yoo-Hoo. I don't really know what to say, I have tried telling my friend that he is building unhealthy habits in his son and putting him at health risks. He always replies with "His mother feeds him this, not my fault". So that is where I leave it, it's honestly not my place.

I know I am speaking from a dietary narrative here, but the hunter gatherer practice is slim anymore. And now with corporations laying into local farms, even our most basic needs are another cog in the wheel of industry. I don't know much about a vegan diet. My own diet is lean meat and a ton of vegetables (preferably green). It took me some time to get to where I am at, I had to break free from habits deeply ingrained. I try to have a meal that contains no meat everyday. So I am a work in progress like anyone else.

In respect to taking an animals life, whatever judges you in near death experiences knows your motives. That is honestly all I can say on that particular aspect.

Hi, Lincoln

I'm not trying to have a dig at you, I'm just curious so don't be offended. The NDE you've posted from NDERF is a bit hard to swallow for me. The young woman was losing blood but wasn't allowed to have a drink for three days ? Unless she was on a drip, that would be easily enough time to kill her from dehydration in a hot country.
Then she mentions this in the questions and comments section below her story :

Oh yes. I wanted to forget that. During a depression a few years ago, I got contact through automatic writing with Cat-people from UFO´s in the form of "cigars".

My only point is that I wonder if this a reliable testimony. Personally, it wouldn't be one that I would be happy to accept or learn anything from but of course it's just my opinion.

 

[Raimo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unning-causing-needless-pain-say-experts.html

Hopefully those animal abusers will have to face the consequences of their actions.

 

[Lincoln]

Hi, Lincoln

I'm not trying to have a dig at you, I'm just curious so don't be offended. The NDE you've posted from NDERF is a bit hard to swallow for me. The young woman was losing blood but wasn't allowed to have a drink for three days ? Unless she was on a drip, that would be easily enough time to kill her from dehydration in a hot country.
Then she mentions this in the questions and comments section below her story :

Oh yes. I wanted to forget that. During a depression a few years ago, I got contact through automatic writing with Cat-people from UFO´s in the form of "cigars".

My only point is that I wonder if this a reliable testimony. Personally, it wouldn't be one that I would be happy to accept or learn anything from but of course it's just my opinion.

No offense taken Tim.

I also found the part you quoted strange as well. It was not enough for me to throw away whatever experience she had though. In psychedelic experiences people are told insightful things by elves and fairies - I can't comment on what she had learned from the cat people :). I am not as well versed in NDE's as you are, I have only recently been reading about them and have never had one myself, but altered states of consciousness can happen in many different states. Fear death experiences come to mind for me.

As far as the medical treatment, I also have no clue. I know about hospitals in other countries and the sophistication in treatment is not on our level. Malpractice can be commonplace.

This is what I was referring to though

I´ve changed from atheist, non-believer and materialist, a competitive career person, into a spiritual seeker, considerate, friendly to animals, consious of the soul, sharp minded, see through people... global and deep... wise...

I can't speak to the verity of her experience, but if it had this effect on her isn't that the most important thing?

 

[Typoz]

Thanks, Lincoln

That's one hell of a transformation on your part ! Well done. If only we could do the same with Dr Woerlee (atheist, non-believer and materialist)

I think you'll find Dr Woerlee is a strict believer and keeper of the faith.

 

[Lincoln]

Thanks, Lincoln

That's one hell of a transformation on your part ! Well done. If only we could do the same with Dr Woerlee (atheist, non-believer and materialist)

Oh, I was quoting an excerpt from that NDE.

I wish I had that sort of transformation, I am still a work in progress. :)

As far as Woerlee, I think he would need his own experience. But would he even accept it?

 

[tim]

Oh, I was quoting an excerpt from that NDE.

I wish I had that sort of transformation, I am still a work in progress. :)

As far as Woerlee, I think he would need his own experience. But would he even accept it?

Sorry, Lincoln, what a dope I am, pay back .......of course it was the girl's statement. I've removed that post.

And if Woerlee had such an experience would he accept it (and change) ? It's a good question....

On topic, I think it was in one of PMH Atwater's books. A NDEr (guy) who claimed to suffer physically if he didn't "bless" it (the meat) before he ate it (the meat soured in his belly apparently).
For me that conjured up a picture of him ceremoniously waving his hand over the top of his big Mac (although he was probably referring to some wild animal he'd taken down).

 

[Illusion]

The majority of written material that interests me suggests that real learning is done on this physical plane of existence. Some work can be done "on the other side," but the grunt work is done here. That is why I think it is so important that things like neuroses, fixations and addictions be worked out here, before physical death. Those things are really a kind of suggestive remnant of crap that wasn't really worked out properly in the last "go arounds" in physical life. Got an anger issue? Can't stop an internal voice telling you you are inadequate? Better to dig into those things here.

If learning and working things out is so important, why do we not know about? No on teaches us about what is importsnt in life. Take my example of the Chinese village again. If the children are taught that the purpose of life is to eat at least 500 dogs during their lifetime, they will try to achieve it. Everything always depends on what your environment looks like. Kinda unfair if there is something fundamental to learn here without anyone telling you.

Your examples above about cats and dogs and people I think may little difference. The key I think is this. Do you honestly feel in your heart that you are doing the right thing? It's golden rule territory. But it also has something to do with the "refinement" of consciousness. Someone who is fundamentally unaware of their own self is also not going to be aware of their "proper" place and activity in the world at large. Awareness and self-awareness and perception. These can all be refined within the housing of this mortal coil. Those skills you will carry into the next world and you will be well glad for it.

All my opinion only, of course. Not intended to be taken as "fact."

There are surely lots of people who feel a strong urge deep in their hearts to torture animals, because it gives them satisfaction. And if no one tells them that it is wrong, they will never even think about it. So I have my doubts regarding ones own feelings or even some kind of universal morality system. That is why it seems to me that NDEs are something earthly and have nothing to do with an afterlife or whatsoever.

But thank god, that is just my conclusion, and I hope it is wrong :)

 

[E.Flowers]

What exactly are "cat people"? Do they look like cats (if so, they must be adorable!)? Is this common in UFO lore?

 

[Far.From.Here]

There are surely lots of people who feel a strong urge deep in their hearts to torture animals, because it gives them satisfaction. And if no one tells them that it is wrong, they will never even think about it. So I have my doubts regarding ones own feelings or even some kind of universal morality system.

I'm not so sure about that. As someone who tortured animals I knew it was wrong. I know now it was an expression that allowed me some amount of control in a chaotic home situation. But even at the time, I knew it was wrong. How can you not? Only a psychopath wouldn't know the difference.

 

[Lincoln]

What exactly are "cat people"? Do they look like cats (if so, they must be adorable!)? Is this common in UFO lore?

I opened up a can of worms with the damn cat people. :)

I do find commonalities in the entities seen in dmt experiences with the ones seen in UFO abductions. I have seen Graham Hancock talk about this.

I have to add I have never been abducted by a UFO or taken a psychedelic though.

 

[E.Flowers]

I opened up a can of worms with the damn cat people. :)

I do find commonalities in the entities seen in dmt experiences with the ones seen in UFO abductions. I have seen Graham Hancock talk about this.

I have to add I have never been abducted by a UFO or taken a psychedelic though.

The DMT elves are fascinating, since they are a recurrent element of these "trips". I am fairly sure that elves have no reason to be burned into our collective memories, and see no way that some Darwinian "justification" -like the ones spouted to justify why some people find snakes scary (apes being hunted by them in a distant past)- could explain why these mythological creatures are consistently encountered.

On the other hand, cat people are new to me. Anyways, it was not part of the NDE, so I'll drop it here.

 

[Illusion]

I'm not so sure about that. As someone who tortured animals I knew it was wrong. I know now it was an expression that allowed me some amount of control in a chaotic home situation. But even at the time, I knew it was wrong. How can you not? Only a psychopath wouldn't know the difference.

But what about them? What about psychopaths? What do they learn on this plane of existance? Cannot be anything about love and empathy, I guess. But they are humans as well. Has there ever been an NDE of a psychopath?

 

[Far.From.Here]

But what about them? What about psychopaths? What do they learn on this plane of existance? Cannot be anything about love and empathy, I guess. But they are humans as well. Has there ever been an NDE of a psychopath?

There are no easy answers to this stuff. But you are really simplifying human psychology. And you seem to be expecting that the nature of reality can be boiled down to an essence that can be fit into something slightly larger than a sound-bite. It can't.

 

[Illusion]

There are no easy answers to this stuff. But you are really simplifying human psychology. And you seem to be expecting that the nature of reality can be boiled down to an essence that can be fit into something slightly larger than a sound-bite. It can't.

Well, wether do I think the former nor do I expect the latter. What I am saying is, that certain obersavtions and experiences I have made in life seem to contradict information that are coming from NDEs or theories about them. And that at least has implications on my view of them.

 

[Far.From.Here]

Well, wether do I think the former nor do I expect the latter. What I am saying is, that certain obersavtions and experiences I have made in life seem to contradict information that are coming from NDEs or theories about them. And that at least has implications on my view of them.

I don't study NDE material very much. I consider the "action" of the NDE to be a temporary process designed to ease the transition into whatever reality exists beyond physical death. It is the airplane ride, not the destination.

 

[Red]

That's a good way to put it.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Thanks for the kind words. Actually I'm not all sweetness and light - on other forums I've been accused (with some justification) of treating other members with brutality. Maybe it's this forum as a whole which helps keep me away from that track. So I owe some thanks to everyone else for that.

Well, none of us are all sweetness and light. But, at least on this forum, you seem pretty balanced.