No NDEr ever said "The best part of my review was reliving that time I won a debate on the internet.

As far as I know, no one ever came back from an NDE and said, "The best part of my life review was when I relived that time I won a debate on the internet.

Instead they say stuff like this:

http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/some-people-were-dead-for-several-days.html
Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.​
 
Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.​
Jesus once said, "The most important commandment is 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength' and the second is like it; 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' The whole of the law and the prophets hangs on these two commandments." In practice, once you see it, it is no longer a commandment but something you can no longer help doing.
 
And here I always wonder how they can give such a statement, if there are obviously people who cannot experience love? Wasted lifes it seems in regard to those words. And if you look at how society and evolution work, this just makes no sense in my eyes.
 
And here I always wonder how they can give such a statement, if there are obviously people who cannot experience love? Wasted lifes it seems in regard to those words. And if you look at how society and evolution work, this just makes no sense in my eyes.
I'm not sure such people exist but if they do, I'm sure they won't be condemned for it. I hope I have understood you. How do society and evolution work in your opinion?
 
And here I always wonder how they can give such a statement, if there are obviously people who cannot experience love? Wasted lifes it seems in regard to those words. And if you look at how society and evolution work, this just makes no sense in my eyes.

Sometimes you can learn about something by studying what happens when it is absent. The "work" is not limited to just the earth life. It continues in the afterlife too.
 
I'm not sure such people exist but if they do, I'm sure they won't be condemned for it. I hope I have understood you. How do society and evolution work in your opinion?

There is a scientific term for that, it is called Alexithymie. But it is a rather new field or research. But no, I did not mean that they will be condemned for it. I just meant that under the premise of love being the sole or main purpose those people's life must seem rather "wasted" or senseless.

Regarding society and evolution: Our brain (and body) adapts to our surroundings and our genes and experiences lead to who we are. For me there is no choice in whom or what we love and how strong this love is. So saying that this is the reason behind life is, in my eyes, a very weak notion.
 
There is a scientific term for that, it is called Alexithymie. But it is a rather new field or research. But no, I did not mean that they will be condemned for it. I just meant that under the premise of love being the sole or main purpose those people's life must seem rather "wasted" or senseless.

Regarding society and evolution: Our brain (and body) adapts to our surroundings and our genes and experiences lead to who we are. For me there is no choice in whom or what we love and how strong this love is. So saying that this is the reason behind life is, in my eyes, a very weak notion.
This is, in and of itself, an extremely poor and circular argument. First of all, you are assuming basically from the get go that there is no free will. You assume an utterly reductive form of life immediately without stating how or why that's what you think. Also just name dropping "evolution" isn't going to get it done. It's comical at times how people lean on that to somehow solve all problems, philosophical or otherwise. Your own statement here is a weak notion. It is entirely opinion.
 
As far as I know, no one ever came back from an NDE and said, "The best part of my life review was when I relived that time I won a debate on the internet.

Instead they say stuff like this:

http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/some-people-were-dead-for-several-days.html
Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.​

But what if my greatest achievement in life WAS winning an argument on the Internet?! Checkmate!
 
I don't see it. Here is a description of Alexithymie:

http://www.alexithymia.us/info_Alexithymia-Description_14.html
Nothing to do with not experiencing love, just not being able to describe or differentiate between emotions.

I read an article about a man who could not feel love or any other bondage to other humans. They called it Alexithymie. It seems that the expression wasn't used correctly then. Still, the example stands. I doubt that he is the only one with this "symptom".
 
This is, in and of itself, an extremely poor and circular argument. First of all, you are assuming basically from the get go that there is no free will. You assume an utterly reductive form of life immediately without stating how or why that's what you think. Also just name dropping "evolution" isn't going to get it done. It's comical at times how people lean on that to somehow solve all problems, philosophical or otherwise. Your own statement here is a weak notion. It is entirely opinion.

Yes, I assume that there is no free will. I of course do not "know", but every other explanation seems contrary to my experience. And yes, it is only my opinion. I never stated anything else. There is not one example that made me see free will as a valid alternative to the way I think life works. Hence my belief.
 
Yes, I assume that there is no free will. I of course do not "know", but every other explanation seems contrary to my experience. And yes, it is only my opinion. I never stated anything else. There is not one example that made me see free will as a valid alternative to the way I think life works. Hence my belief.
So one could respond to you, "I assume that there is free will. Of course I do not 'know', but every other explanation seems contrary to my experience. And yes, it is only my opinion. I never stated anything else. There is not one example that made me see a lack of free will as a valid alternative to the way I think life works. Hence my belief", and their response would be entirely as valid.
 
I read an article about a man who could not feel love or any other bondage to other humans. They called it Alexithymie. It seems that the expression wasn't used correctly then. Still, the example stands. I doubt that he is the only one with this "symptom".
If you can find the article I would be interested in reading it. They used to think the same about "autism" but thankfully we have come a long way in understanding autistic spectrum disorders.
 
If you can find the article I would be interested in reading it. They used to think the same about "autism" but thankfully we have come a long way in understanding autistic spectrum disorders.

It was in a German magazine, so could be hard to find again, but I will try. Nevertheless we know for sure that there are people who cannot feel fear due to brain trauma and tumors in certain regions (guess the amygdala). Even though I think that love is a more complex emotion, it surely has its circuit representations as every other emotion. And if they are defunct for whatever reasons the feeling might not be produceable.
 
So one could respond to you, "I assume that there is free will. Of course I do not 'know', but every other explanation seems contrary to my experience. And yes, it is only my opinion. I never stated anything else. There is not one example that made me see a lack of free will as a valid alternative to the way I think life works. Hence my belief", and their response would be entirely as valid.

Absolutely.
 
I'm not sure such people exist but if they do, I'm sure they won't be condemned for it. I hope I have understood you. How do society and evolution work in your opinion?


Psychopathy may be an example. Psychopaths are said to lack the brain circuitry needed to make empathy and caring for others possible. And this behavior is innate and unconscious, unlike sociopaths.
 
I figured you would respond like that. I guess all I'm saying is that doesn't get anyone anywhere, which is fine, if you don't really care about pursuing it.

But does discussion really bring us anywhere close to truth? I have been a reader of this and other forums for years. While there are very interesting discussions and topics on a intelctually high level, it just brought me to the conclusion that we just do not know and might never know.
I will never rule out the possibility that there might be free will, but from what I experienced and grasped so far, I find it very unlikely.
 
But does discussion really bring us anywhere close to truth? I have been a reader of this and other forums for years. While there are very interesting discussions and topics on a intelctually high level, it just brought me to the conclusion that we just do not know and might never know.
I will never rule out the possibility that there might be free will, but from what I experienced and grasped so far, I find it very unlikely.
I think personally it brings me closer, yes. I mean, I would agree if we spoke in purely theoretical terms all the time, but here, we don't. There is evidence presented that you can at least assess on your own and go from there regarding what you think that evidence means or doesn't mean. From the evidence that I've read and studied, I think there's more to it. Though, I don't know what you believe outside of the free will question, which is distinct from a lot of the other questions asked here on this site.

Of course I would agree that we don't know and might never know. I think you're spot on. I think that's important to acknowledge.

I must say, I am curious as to what experiences have made you think that it's unlikely that there's free will. It seems to me that more often those who don't believe in free will, will say that they understand how it seems like we have free will, but really don't. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, and correct me if I am, you're saying that your experiences make you believe there isn't free will? I find that to be unique. Again, I do know that the question of free will can be entirely independent of other views regarding the issues we discuss here, and I believe you could both believe in free will and something like dualism or materialism, or likewise could believe in no free will and still believe in God, dualism of some sort, or materialism. So I don't think those are necessarily correlated. I'm just curious about the experiences you say make you think there is no free will.
 
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