NTA - Awakening From the Quantum Dream with Paul Levy

#1

I find this interview very interesting. Maybe Paul Levy is a person for Skeptiko? I find it especially interesting related to the topic of evil that has been discussed in several interviews here. Levy's take is that we "bring the objective world into existence through our collective consciousness", and that evil (or Wetiko) then is a part of us (despite not existing at all).

I have to say that this interview raises several questions for me. First of all. Doesn't this world view promote "resist not evil", which says you're better of going inside and meditating, working on yourself, instead of standing up against evil? Doesn't this view say that you are responsible for all evil you experience? And, if quantum physics is something we dreamt into existence, how can that be used to determine the dream itself? Don't we need something outside the dream realm to define the dream realm itself? Levy says it's because quantum physics is a terma (hidden treasure). Then again, how can we, if we are in a dream state, figure out or measure what the termas are? I guess that is a similar question as if we can use our consciousness to define our consciousness. Or?

Note: I've posted a similar comment under the video.
 
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#2
Welcome Frode!

Unfortunately, I am not very impressed with this guy.

First, I don't think he accurately represents QM as it is understood, and I'd like him better if he admitted that up-front.

I mean QM deals with an objective reality that presents a branching set of alternatives, and consciousness can observe one branch thereby collapsing the alternatives. This process repeats endlessly. Once you have multiple consciousnesses, I'm not sure if the theory is clear. All that is if you accept the Copenhagen interpretation - which I think I do.

More to the point perhaps, Levy can't seem to decide if Wakiko (if that is how you spell it) exists as an evil spirit or that it doesn't even exist!

Maybe he doesn't want to depart from materialism, and that is why he formulates his ideas as he does?

I'd be very surprised if QM isn't fundamentally connected with consciousness in some way or other.

David
 
#3
Thank you, David.

Yes, as written above I also end up with a lot of questions after listening to Levy. However, I have not read his books nor looked into more of his work. I've only listened to the above interview. I've heard the interview several times. But I don't quite get it. My initial thought was that he was contradicting himself and that his theory contains paradoxes. Like, as you mention, Wetiko, that is an evil spirit that both do exist, but don't actually exist at all. However, I admit that I need to dig deeper to fully understand what he is saying, or what he is trying to convey.

I would love to see a deeper discussion of the dangers of saying that all evil is inside you. A lot of people, that at least call themselves spiritual awakened, says that since "All is One" you should work on yourself instead of others. And, when working on yourself you will heal others. As well, you have the term from the bible that says "Resist not evil". I buy that it's very important to work on yourself. Of course, it is! At the same time, I believe if you see evil you should stand up against it. Isn't not resisting evil a very dangerous path? Don't we need to push back against evil outside ourselves?

On a side note: It's interesting to consider if the psychedelic movement was started by the CIA for the very reason of making people more passive and "not resisting evil". As discussed in this thread. What if psychedelics were introduced to have people read less, research less, and hence make people more prone to manipulation? Has it got something to do with us having lost our attention span? Or is there a much deeper reason why the CIA promoted psychedelics?
 
#4
Thank you, David.

Yes, as written above I also end up with a lot of questions after listening to Levy. However, I have not read his books nor looked into more of his work. I've only listened to the above interview. I've heard the interview several times. But I don't quite get it. My initial thought was that he was contradicting himself and that his theory contains paradoxes. Like, as you mention, Wetiko, that is an evil spirit that both do exist, but don't actually exist at all. However, I admit that I need to dig deeper to fully understand what he is saying, or what he is trying to convey.
I once read some advice to science fiction writes (from a science fiction writer) and one thing he pointed out, was that when describing something weird, it was best to be as down to earth as possible. It sounded to me that Levy was aping the Trinity - not one, and not three, but I think that really isn't the best way to go. I think Levy should try to re-express his ideas without paradoxes - trying to figure out exactly what he wants to tell us, and then telling it - I hope I am not being too cruel.

I also wonder how much QM he actually knows. People attach that word "Quantum" to just about anything - it flashes a warning light in my mind when I see it!
On a side note: It's interesting to consider if the psychedelic movement was started by the CIA for the very reason of making people more passive and "not resisting evil". As discussed in this thread. What if psychedelics were introduced to have people read less, research less, and hence make people more prone to manipulation? Has it got something to do with us having lost our attention span? Or is there a much deeper reason why the CIA promoted psychedelics?
Well until recently, when most of the media stopped doing its job to explore scandals mercilessly, I feel that conspiracy theories need to be taken with caution - particularly conspiracies with a vague goal like making people more passive in the face of evil.

David
 
#5
I once read some advice to science fiction writes (from a science fiction writer) and one thing he pointed out, was that when describing something weird, it was best to be as down to earth as possible. It sounded to me that Levy was aping the Trinity - not one, and not three, but I think that really isn't the best way to go. I think Levy should try to re-express his ideas without paradoxes - trying to figure out exactly what he wants to tell us, and then telling it - I hope I am not being too cruel.

I also wonder how much QM he actually knows. People attach that word "Quantum" to just about anything - it flashes a warning light in my mind when I see it!
Yes. It would be very useful to have these ideas presented in a more understandable way, without paradoxes. That's why I thought he could be a candidate for Skeptiko. However, I just realised that New Thinking Allowed has made another interview with Levy. I will check out "The Alchemical Awakening with Paul Levy" and see if I do understand more of his ideas.

Yes, Quantum is widely used and attached to loads of theories and ideas. (Surprising side note: as a search term we see a decline in the use of "quantum" according to Google).

Well until recently, when most of the media stopped doing its job to explore scandals mercilessly, I feel that conspiracy theories need to be taken with caution - particularly conspiracies with a vague goal like making people more passive in the face of evil.
I do agree.
 
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