Phillip J. Watt, on Tony Robbins, Chaos Magic, and Backdoor Materialism |380|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, May 15, 2018.

  1. Skeptiko001

    Skeptiko001 Member

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    Again, you can't stereotype chaos magick, old Shamanism and the like across the board. Plenty of real 'chaos magick' folks do not give a shit about the money, but for the charlatans that do, that's fine to address and label them, but certainly not all and I'd say not even the majority. Smarten up please.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  2. Skeptiko001

    Skeptiko001 Member

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    You always know how to grow the perfect split conversation but in this case Alex, I think you truly empathize with the magick etc. approach despite knowing that in most modern day reality to get through a mortgage, college, new job or successful marriage we kind of need to adhere to the Tony Robbins approach. But you know as well as I there's room in the world for both occult magick and Tony Robbins; like most things it's not binary. It's all of the above. New and old magick traditions produce some interesting results and can be used (as Shamanism is) on an entirely spiritual level. And they complement cultivating spirituality quite well.

    We can have a well-planned 401k and diversified portfolio while still doing family magick or Shamanic rituals to strengthen our "soul experience" as long as we do them based around core values (learning to help others, altruism, forgoing of materialism, opening third eye...) I imagine your family fits exactly this profile given your strong successful business background combined with your thirst for "fringe Spiritual" practices. Am I wrong?

    -John
     
  3. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    This!
     
  4. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Say what you want about " magick" I go to bed knowing I've seen telekinesis in person. Its a beautiful feeling, you guys are seemingly more interested in the surface/receptacle of these topics.
     
  5. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    There are many charlatans, probably 98 percent of charlatans and or misguided people who know no better (ego). Randi made a career on debunking charlatans that were easy to spot
     
  6. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Will power and beliefs are just the layers covering the true germ of the alchemical principles. This information is hidden from the "profane" as fear of it being widespread it will get in to the wrong hands. Imagine a serial killer having this type of knowledge. Or Stalin, Trump, Hitler or any average evil person
     
  7. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    I don't know how you got this reading out of what I wrote at all, I was specifically talking about Phil Hine and Peter Carrolls works from what I took to be their perspective, I did not mention Shamanism even once. I doubt we even disagree on this, you instead got angry when I appeared to be snubbing magic when I am not. Obviously willpower and beliefs are important, but they aren't the only thing that matters. A real veneration of these ancient traditions and the spirit behind them is just as important, its about building a legacy of mutual respect upon the backs of our fellow practicioners and the various entities which aid them.

    I have immense respect for many chaos magicians and all the ancient traditions of spirituality across cultures, it's the very soul that keeps the people alive in my opinion.

    It makes me cringe when I see Chaos practitioners passing around their "everything is just directing the will, so lets sacrifice our semen to Satan so we can get money/gf/job w/e" stuff, and yes it does happen.

    Also there's no need to be rude. Frankly your post pissed me off and I don't attend this forum to get angry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  8. Michael Patterson

    Michael Patterson New

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    I want to add to John's remarks above by saying that there is such an imperative to publish these days that a lot of people who have one decent thing to say are induced to write a 2nd or 3rd book for no other reason than ego and pressure from publishers. Others write first books for really no decent reason than a conceit that they have something to say - when they don't. I can't think up enough to say that I think makes sense to fill one book. I am grateful, because that means I don't have a piece of crap out there I would now cringe over having written, let alone publish.

    The result is that we are awash with crap. The consequence is that it is immensely difficult to discern what is worth reading alone. Most folk would benefit from guidance, but the romance of the solo magical warrior is so alluring that it means that many have to wade through the shit before they arrive at a worthwhile place. And in any case who do you go to for help?

    For what its worth I think this has a lot to do with the evolution of the recovery of esoteric thought in the the West since the 1960s. The only sources that were available were established in the latter part of the 19th century - or based on them. Unless you were into Wicca, in which case you had later sources. But the late 1960s instituted a fundamental series of changes that rendered those resources out of date in many ways. Chaos magic was a response. I quit magic before I was aware of Chaos.

    In my view, we are in a transitional period that commenced in the late 60s. Its got a while to run because so many of the disrupters that have influenced us since then are still in transition themselves - think the internet for example. So, yes, there's a lot of shit because of the fusion of egos and commercial interest. But there's also gold.

    You will read a lot of rubbish, but persist. You will hear a lot of utter trash, but hang in.
     
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  9. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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  10. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    LOL - I guess you have summed up what I feel about writing a book - or even a blog about non-materialist ideas. The nice thing about Skeptiko, is that people can express their points of view and get feedback from others who are seriously trying to make sense of reality, rather than committing to a set of ideas which all too soon seem rather stale.

    David
     

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