Pizzagate. Plus, Ex-FBI Undercover Agent Bob Hamer |357|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Pizzagate. Plus, Ex-FBI Undercover Agent Bob Hamer |357|
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    What Pizzagate reveals about evil. Plus, an ex-FBI agent tells what he learned about sex crimes against children. [​IMG]
    photo by: Skeptiko
    On this episode of Skeptiko…

    Alex Tsakiris: One of the great things about Pizzagate is that it really cuts through a lot of the ambiguity with regard to the the “evil question”, because sex crimes against children are evil, clearly evil. So in that way it really makes clear the question, what is the nature of this evil? Is this evil something we just cook up in our consciousness-is-an-illusion brain or does this evil tell us something about this hierarchical nature of consciousness?

    Bob Hamer: Had I not been undercover, had I walked past them and heard these men talking like that I would have thrown them off the railing, I mean, it was so disgusting. It demonstrated to me that parents were providing eye candy for these pedophiles and these sick perverts. I don’t know how anyone, just as you had said earlier Alex, how can anyone say that is not evil?

    Stay with us for Skeptiko…

    Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Tsakiris, and the topic of today’s show is not one that’s easy to talk about and not one that you’d expect to hear on a show about consciousness science. I know that because I get plenty of emails asking me when I’m going to get back to NDE and [cyber search 00:01:44]. But hey, there’s an important through line here that I’d like to explore with you that really gets to the heart of what this show is all about, because my primary finding, if you will, from 350 episodes of Skeptiko, is that we are more, that is we’re not biological robots in a meaningless universe, that science tell us we are, we are more.

    So really, all questions beyond that are about what that more is, what that spirituality is, what that extended consciousness is, where did it come from, what is its purpose, how does it function in our life and in our world? And sure, these are the deepest, most profound questions that you could ask, that people have been asking for thousands of years, and it’s not like we’re going to figure it out on a couple of podcast episodes. The topic is I think, the most important topic we can talk about and in this ongoing conversation that we’re having, I think it’s nice to keep it fresh and relevant with new things that are happening and look at how those might inform or further our understanding of what’s really going on. And Pizzagate, that is the controversy surrounding the alleged occult themed and pedophilia themed emails of Hilary Clinton’s top aid John Podesta are certainly fresh and I would suggest that they’re very relevant to some of these Skeptiko questions I was just talking about in some really important ways. Let me explain… (continued below)
     
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  2. I agree it's evil. Sadly, before Christianity, it was normal.

    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/search/label/John Lennox
    Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
    We have forgotten just how deep a cultural revolution Christianity wrought. In fact, we forget about it precisely because of how deep it was: There are many ideas that we simply take for granted as natural and obvious, when in fact they didn't exist until the arrival of Christianity changed things completely. Take, for instance, the idea of children.
    ...
    Various pagan authors describe children as being more like plants than human beings. And this had concrete consequences.
    ...
    Children were rudely brought up, and very strong beatings were a normal part of education. In Rome, a child's father had the right to kill him for whatever reason until he came of age.
    ...
    One of the most notorious ancient practices that Christianity rebelled against was the frequent practice of expositio, basically the abandonment of unwanted infants.
    ...
    Another notorious practice in the ancient world was the sexual exploitation of children.
    ...
    But really, Christianity's invention of children — that is, its invention of the cultural idea of children as treasured human beings — was really an outgrowth of its most stupendous and revolutionary idea: the radical equality, and the infinite value, of every single human being as a beloved child of God. If the God who made heaven and Earth chose to reveal himself, not as an emperor, but as a slave punished on the cross, then no one could claim higher dignity than anyone else on the basis of earthly status.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  3. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Alex's questions at the end of the podcast:

    Do you think that people are ever influenced by evil spirits?

    If there is an extended consciousness realm, in what ways is it influencing the material world?
     
  4. Yes. Many of them are in mental hospitals.
    http://galactic.no/rune/spesBoker/Prof Carl Wickland - Thirty Years Among the Dead.pdf
    My beliefs about the afterlife come from statements made by evidential mediums and NDErs....

    Nice spirits are trying to help us. "Bad" spirits can be playing games with us and or trying to harm us. Some "bad" spirits are just confused and think they are doing good. Most of the spirits that frighten people who call them "evil" are just either grumpy or confused or are nice spirits trying to communicate and people, because they are ignorant and watch too many scary movies, confuse their own needless fear with a perception of "evil".

    I don't believe in a hirearchy of bad entities with someone like Satan at the top. I think the undeveloped spirits can be troublesome but eventually they get with the program and start developing toward becoming fit for the higher levels in the afterlife.
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/principles

    There can always be exceptions but the "evil" entities are in the vast majority of cases the spirits of humans not some other line of evolution like "demons". (Spirits can come a go between worlds and incarnate on different worlds and there are also non incarnating lines so some of the problems can be from non-human entities. But it is rare)

    After death, it is possible to get stuck on the earth plane and not make a transition to the afterlife, it is these earthbound spirits that can cause problems.
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/05/what-are-ghosts.html

    Spirits influence us mentally. Their thoughts can influence our thoughts. Sensitive people will know the thoughts are coming from a spirit, but most people will think it is their own thoughts.

    I don't think pedophilia is caused by spirits, although earthbound spirits may be attracted to people who have similar interests to them. For example the earthbound spirits of alcoholics may congregate in bars so they can vicariously experience alcohol through the living patrons.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  5. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I read C.S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters as a kid, and while I was still a Christian, and I remember that one of the trainee tempters was told that he might find the subject of sexual temptation really boring, because spirits don't do sex, but it still worked well on humans - so they should not ignore it!

    Actually, I now rather wonder if the opposite might be true. I mean people who have experienced NDE's often come back and report that the senses out there - such as sight and hearing - are so much better than the Earthly approximations. Sex is obviously interpersonal, and my guess is that it does exist out there in some form. Stripped of its layers of ideas, physical sex seems almost nothing - romance and sex is all about the interpersonal mental stuff.

    Now the question is whether there are evil spirits. To be honest, I think there probably are, and that they do influence people - or sometimes take them over. It is really hard to imagine what Multiple Personality Disorder is, if it isn't what the name implies - several spirits in one body.

    If sex is something from the non-physical world, then it makes sense that some people are drawn into abusive practices from beyond.

    However, I actually think there is a worse evil even than paedophilia, and that is nuclear weapons. I was very struck by the fact that Hillary Clinton had some involvement with this 'spirit cooker' woman, whose work seems to be mainly necrophilic - Hillary - the very woman who wanted to be Commander in Chief!

    @Alex I think it might help if you summarised the Pizzagate facts and maybe those final released emails that you referred to on the show, because I think plenty of people on the forum (myself included to some extent) don't have a clear picture of this issue.

    David
     
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  6. malf

    malf Member

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    Most of the pizzagate claims are here, along with some appropriate scrutiny.
     
  7. Alex

    Alex New

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    there's a lot out there... easy to find. just remember (as I said in the show) watch for stories that lead with "this guy went into a pizza shop with a gun.."

    https://steemit.com/pizzagate/@rebe...meline-of-major-events-and-significant-emails

    https://steemit.com/pizzagate/@rebelskum/pizzagate-decoded-part-ii-what-is-spirit-cooking
     
  8. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Thanks Alex,

    Some of the items in your first link seem pretty damning, and relate to paedophilia and murder.

    The second relates to the 'spirit cooking'. I saw a similar link before the election, and it certainly consolidated my view that Hillary Clinton was not suitable for the White House (of course, I didn't have a vote).

    One other point. Bob Hamer said several times that he felt that there was going to be an attempt to repeal the laws against paedophilia soon - as an extension to rights for other sexual minorities. If this is attempted, I am pretty sure that will end this whole madness because there will be a huge backlash against the 'Left' (I use quotes because they aren't the Left of old) and the whole politics of minorities.

    I hope that the backlash will not extend to those many quiet gays and Lesbians, who simply want to live their lives in peace, and were given their freedom decades ago by politicians who cared for what was right and took a considerable personal political risk.

    David
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  9. K9!

    K9! New

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    I think one's peer group, family and neighbors have a far more substantial influence on any given individual than the spirit world ever could. If there really is an extended consciousness that connects us, those are the ones we feel most connected to. It's their consciousness' that we are most likely to be open to suggestions from.

    I think those who want to do evil, do evil. Maybe it's more enticing if your boss tells you it will get you a promotion, but lots of people just walk away from those situations. Ultimately, it's a personal choice. It doesn't require evil spirits to guide you along, because there are enough flesh and blood people out there who will give you opportunities to do bad things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  10. Alex

    Alex New

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    I was talking to Conner Habib about this and I like his quote... paraphrasing... no matter what comes of it they will use it to f*** us over and take away more of our rights. I think he's right. I don't think common sense it all that hard to find here... but I also think the "deep spirituality" stuff is key to finding it.
     
  11. Alex

    Alex New

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    I agree... then again yr response doesn't really address the issue. it's not a "most/more" thing. it's about the nature of the extended consciousness reality.
     
  12. Steve from ABQ

    Steve from ABQ Member

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    Sorry Alex, but I think you and others just believe this stuff because you want to. None of this would amount to anything in a court of law. But for the sake of argument, wouldn't Trump's participation in Lolita express put him in the same camp if both are true? Why pick on Hillary? BTW, I was for Bernie.
     
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  13. Dakota Rider

    Dakota Rider Member

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    I listened to the show - interesting guest to interview.

    I was hoping, though, for some substantiation of the Pizzagate claims. The interview spent a lot of time on the disturbing crime of molesting children, but I didn't find any links to Pizzagate.

    For the record, I've looked into the Pizzagate claims and found only nonsense. It's like someone walked up on a conversation between other people, didn't understand the things they were saying because they came to it in the middle, then accused the people of molesting children based on no further evidence.
     
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  14. Alex

    Alex New

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    pls, pls, pls just forget about politics. If Trump is dirty... hang 'em. if Pence is dirty... hang 'em. If the Pope is dirty... hang 'em. Not literally of course, but in the court of public opinion.
     
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  15. Alex

    Alex New

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    ok, as long as you accept the fact that most people who've really looked at the evidence (like the above links) have removed Podesta, Hassert (who BTW was never convicted of sex crimes against children), the pizza guy and these other folks from their list of approved child care providers.
     
  16. It really is amazing how much of an embarrassment Skeptiko has become.
     
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  17. Tony Podesta, John Podesta's brother collects creepy art. Anyone interested can find out more doing an internet search.
     
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  18. malf

    malf Member

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    Hang 'im!
     
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  19. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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  20. malf

    malf Member

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