Politics

[Michael Patterson]

This expresses a lot of what I feel. If an NDE is planned, then the whole build-up to it - say a car crash - was planned. You are right - it does make life seem pointless.

I think you are missing the point here. It is better to say that an event in known in advance rather than 'planned'. And this knowing in advance happens sometimes well in advance of the event - sufficient to ask why it could not be circumvented. Maybe on some level we have the capacity to change so that event does not occur - but we don't, or can't, because we are too locked into a mind set or too screwed up. We might be 'addicted' to a certain way of thinking and feeling.

NDEs are transformative, even when there is pain involved. Not every one is lucky to have such an experience. So folk ride their additions the whole span of their lives and do not get a chance to have a wake up call.

For others, like me we have the catastrophe without the NDE. My wake up call was 3 months of paralysis and 15 months of desperate recovery. It worked, but I pay an ongoing price of residual disability. Give me the sharp shock of an NDE any time.

To the extent that life experiences are 'planned' that planning happens on a level far deeper than our personalities can register - so the conscious life experience remains a means of developing self-awareness. Our ability to experience life fully is not impacted.

 

[Michael Patterson]

Fortunately, I think President Trump wants this stopped, which is a big reason why I support him.

With respect, this is not a reason to support Trump, given his long litany of deficits. It was T who pulled out of the agreement with Iran on fake pretences to begin with. As an Australian I am 100% in favour of the US desisting from its military adventures, and I also am in agreement with T on this matter - but that does not mean I would see him as competent to stop this meddling. This might be one good thing he does, but it does not make up for the chaos he has created.

 

[Coralee]

Michael Patterson-

When we enter this reality, we are forced to work on ourselves as a separate entity. When we return to God, our thoughts are re-united with others as one. Maybe this reality is meant for us to experience our individual uniqueness. We see who we are and try to grow based on the knowledge we acquire in Earth.

 

[Michael Patterson]

Michael Patterson-

When we enter this reality, we are forced to work on ourselves as a separate entity. When we return to God, our thoughts are re-united with others as one. Maybe this reality is meant for us to experience our individual uniqueness. We see who we are and try to grow based on the knowledge we acquire in Earth.

I agree. How do you relate this thought to Trump?

 

[Coralee]

On a personal level, Trump wants us to develop ourselves to contribute to society and self growth. If we all try to work on making America strong then that would benefit everyone as a whole on a greater level. When you live in a strong, well-developed society, you are healthier and happier.

 

[Michael Patterson]

On a personal level, Trump wants us to develop ourselves to contribute to society and self growth. If we all try to work on making America strong then that would benefit everyone as a whole on a greater level. When you live in a strong, well-developed society, you are healthier and happier.

That's an interesting interpretation of Trump. I can see why you think it. But from my perspective its a very thin slice of a vey large consequence pie - and probably the only bit that is palatable.

 

[David Bailey]

“Is it ok to say that the American administration is now a Jewish comedy act...”

To me, people opposed to Trump are resorting to vague accusations - which I suppose this is. How can he argue against a slur like that?

Ask yourself why they don't make some dirt stick on him, if they have anything?

David

 

[Jim_Smith]

Ask yourself why they don't make some dirt stick on him, if they have anything?

David

Because elections are won or lost by a few % points in key districts. They don't have to fool everyone just a few people and it can make a difference.

And they know how confirmation bias works. People will believe anything that agrees with their existing beliefs. A few lies can keep the best economy from changing enough votes to make a difference. The lies don't have to hold up under scrutiny because people will not weigh them objectively.

 

[Silence]

To me, people opposed to Trump are resorting to vague accusations

Is it really so hard to understand why so many people have trouble with him? I mean you do read and listen to what he writes and says, correct?

I get there are many who are willing to look past the crass and inappropriate things he so often says and writes as they believe the ends justify the means.

I'm not one of those people who feels we should compromise ethical and moral language and behavior in that way. Time will tell on whether the American society can find a suitable alternative.

 

[David Bailey]

Is it really so hard to understand why so many people have trouble with him? I mean you do read and listen to what he writes and says, correct?

I get there are many who are willing to look past the crass and inappropriate things he so often says and writes as they believe the ends justify the means.

I'm not one of those people who feels we should compromise ethical and moral language and behavior in that way. Time will tell on whether the American society can find a suitable alternative.

He has not honed the skill of using carefully crafted sentences that are ultimately meaningless or deceptive - i.e. he is not like most politicians.

On the other hand, he has kept out of a major war in Syria and a probably military confrontation with Russian forces in that country. Would you really prefer a glib speaker who gets the West into another dangerous and futile war?

Any alternative would have to come from the Democratic Party, and unfortunately they do not yet seem to have the learned the lessons as to why Trump got elected - peace, border security, and bringing jobs home.

David

 

[Silence]

He has not honed the skill of using carefully crafted sentences that are ultimately meaningless or deceptive - i.e. he is not like most politicians.

I wasn't talking about his rather obvious remedial command of the English language. That's nothing new as we've had presidents before who weren't particularly grand linguists.

What I can't get past is the often offensive, petty and even hateful things he says. In this regard its pretty simple for me: Would I tolerate or respect someone who behaved this way in my own personal circles? The answer is a categorically "no" presuming I had a choice in the matter (an interesting caveat considering Trump hold the most powerful position on the planet). Again, I'm not talking policy here. Just basic manners and decorum. I feel they still have a strong place in the world.

 

[David Bailey]

What I can't get past is the often offensive, petty and even hateful things he says.

Well imagine you had a son in the US armed forces - or you were in them yourself. Would you feel that the prospect of war with Syria or Russia counted less that Trump's language?

David

 

[Silence]

No, I would rather save lives. Doesn't mean I can get past Trump's cheapening of the office through his pettiness and often offensive language. He may be the better of a Devil's choice but I fully understand why so many hope a better alternative emerges. I also worry about the precedent he's setting in terms of ethics and morality when dealing with people of differing worldviews: is the new standard to simply resort to petty insults and tweets?

Keep misdirected from all this if you will David; choose to ignore it or justify it through your agreement with some/all of his policies (to the degree that's even discernible to you). I can't. I think its dangerous.

 

[Steve]

 

[Laird]

@6:49: "Many times I'm being told in Israel: 'Oh, you draw the picture in black and white, and it's not black and white - it is so complex'. My friends, it is black and white, and those who say that it's complex don't want to see the truth".

Amen. Some folks here need to hear that.

 

[David Bailey]

@6:49: "Many times I'm being told in Israel: 'Oh, you draw the picture in black and white, and it's not black and white - it is so complex'. My friends, it is black and white, and those who say that it's complex don't want to see the truth".

Amen. Some folks here need to hear that.

Well tell me. What are the stated aims of Hamas, and do you have any reason they would settle for less?

David

 

[Steve]

Well tell me. What are the stated aims of Hamas, and do you have any reason they would settle for less?

David

“It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

 

[David Bailey]

“It also obscures Hamas's curious history. To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

I
Well I suppose I would say that if you look back into history, most ideas don't turn out as originally expected. I mean yes, some Israelis are probably glad that Hamas is so intransigent, but that doesn't alter the real dilemma now. Do you open the wall and let people through, inevitably including some Hamas suicide bombers, then sit back until there are deadly attacks and calls for a strong counter attack by Israel, or do you block the wall at the expense of killing a few people and hope that Hamas gradually loses support? I don't know if Israel already does this, but I would like to see some sort of aerial leafletting campaign on the occupied territories explaining the problem.

Part of the problem with the modern 'Left' is that it likes to express moral outrage without actually coming up with a workable alternative.

David

 

[Steve]

Part of the problem with the modern 'Left' is that it likes to express moral outrage without actually coming up with a workable alternative.

Imo it’s sometimes better expressing moral outrage than defending the indefensible or staying quiet.

 

[David Bailey]

Imo it’s sometimes better expressing moral outrage than defending the indefensible or staying quiet.

Yes but surely something is only indefensible if there is an alternative strategy that would be better.

As far as I can see, a low level war is better than the high level war that would result in Hamas were permitted to access Israel.

David