Psychedelics and Mystical Experiences


The most amazing example was recently discovered. Dolphins passing the puffer fish around to get high!
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-chewing-and-passing-them-around-9030126.html

In extraordinary scenes filmed for a new documentary, young dolphins were seen carefully manipulating a certain kind of puffer fish which, if provoked, releases a nerve toxin.

Though large doses of the toxin can be deadly, in small amounts it is known to produce a narcotic effect, and the dolphins appeared to have worked out how to make the fish release just the right amount. Carefully chewing on the puffer and passing it between one another, the marine mammals then enter what seems to be a trance-like state.
 
An interesting thread from some experienced users on the subject.
Confirms my suspicions that only similar light weight experiences can be attained by meditation alone. Yes, yes the feeling of one and bliss, blaa blaa, much like mdma or early stages of lsd! 4th jhana etc...
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13135

The states of mind I know exist are so far beyond the normal, I have great skepticism towards those claiming they can acheive the same state by mantra and breathing. Or do the mystics actually claim to produce the effects of psilocybin or ayahuasca? Really? Can anyone make that claim with honesty from in depth experimentation? The dharmists are vague, how do you even know you are doing it right? The power of belief alone can get you places. How do you know what the actual destination should even look like?

I would suggest perhaps a bit more humbleness. No one on psychedelics has ever produced anything like the Upanashads or the Yoga Sutras. Sure, one could speculate these ancients used such substances, but then that flies in the face of what they actually say. Patanjali in Yoga Sutras even mentioned drug-induced psychic states:

4.1 The subtler attainments come with birth or are attained through herbs, mantra, austerities or concentration. (from here, also the commentary here is good; here too).

Most of the states got to by psychedelics are considered lower forms of psychism. I'm telling you, Krishnananda's "If it is external, it is not eternal" is the best rule of thumb I have found.

Again, this is not to say that the drugs can't get you glimpses. But the meditation traditions hold up the standard of being able to do all this with nothing other than yourself. Just because you or I don't know anyone personally who might be able to do this doesn't mean such people do not or did not ever exist.

I would politely and kindly recommend cooling down a bit. One sure fire sign of success on these fronts is being completely relaxed and accepting the world. People that have axes to grind and points to prove are not in such a state.

All my best,

Don
 
Again, this is not to say that the drugs can't get you glimpses. But the meditation traditions hold up the standard of being able to do all this with nothing other than yourself. Just because you or I don't know anyone personally who might be able to do this doesn't mean such people do not or did not ever exist.

I agree, I once wrote
http://forum.mind-energy.net/forum/...man-consciousness-podcast?p=155354#post155354
If you do enough meditation, drugs are superfluous.

Quoting Don's post again
One sure fire sign of success on these fronts is being completely relaxed and accepting the world.
This definately comes from meditation. When your mind is 100% focused on one object, your mind is not thinking about attachments and aversions, you have no desire for anything to be different than it is, and you see that everything is perfect just as it is.
 
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I would suggest perhaps a bit more humbleness. No one on psychedelics has ever produced anything like the Upanashads or the Yoga Sutras. Sure, one could speculate these ancients used such substances, but then that flies in the face of what they actually say. Patanjali in Yoga Sutras even mentioned drug-induced psychic states:

4.1 The subtler attainments come with birth or are attained through herbs, mantra, austerities or concentration. (from here, also the commentary here is good; here too).

Most of the states got to by psychedelics are considered lower forms of psychism. I'm telling you, Krishnananda's "If it is external, it is not eternal" is the best rule of thumb I have found.

Again, this is not to say that the drugs can't get you glimpses. But the meditation traditions hold up the standard of being able to do all this with nothing other than yourself. Just because you or I don't know anyone personally who might be able to do this doesn't mean such people do not or did not ever exist.

I would politely and kindly recommend cooling down a bit. One sure fire sign of success on these fronts is being completely relaxed and accepting the world. People that have axes to grind and points to prove are not in such a state.

All my best,

Don

Don do not get Upset! Just playing the devil! You know like your very non scientific appraisal earlier of the amatuer setting out to prove his own convictions. Someone could easily be forgiven for mistaking that silliness for an inflammatory remark. i kindly and politely ask you not to play games.

I am not your usual airy fairy spiritualist. My background no doubt. I have not even taken the gloves off yet Don. Your unfounded statements of fact will get my attention though.

Points to prove? Like your point that entheogens are not a true method? Like your point that it but a glimpse and somehow these other things that still remain obscure hold some level of reality above and beyond? Never mind historical implications eh?

It just appears as religious biggotry to me, to be honest. Humility cuts both ways Don.

Casting me as emotional is a tactic I can easily see through. Playing roles and using masks is something easily torn down from using entheogens. You seem to think I am mad, not at all. You don't know me too well. Cynical yes.

As I said I am rough around the edges. My path has been a warrior path for most of my life. I prefer the peaceful warrior, but still quite firey. I also call bullshit when I see it. I am also open to evidence and experimentation.

Let me ask you. Can you attain these levels at will. Can you attain cosmic consciousness tonight? Can you even know what it should look like? Have you actually had a kundalini awakening? Your admission seems to indicate a no.

No one on psychedelics has ever produced Upanashads or the Yoga Sutras?
Oh please, here we go. Yeah and no one on psychedelics has mastered yogic flying either. :)

Actually some shaman claim a level beyond the crown charkra of kundalini awakening, in charkras beyond those. So I think the specialness you attribute to yoga is not exclusive to it or even the full extent. You need to understand that it is not just about the substance, there are cultures who have being doing this since pre history.

Don't just throw mystical sounding indian around. It is all so vague.
The later Upanishads uphold the Yoga Sutras, among the six systems, as containing the most efficacious methods for achieving direct perception of truth. Through the practical techniques of yoga, man leaves behind forever the barren realms of speculation and cognizes in experience the veritable Essence. (Autobiography of a Yogi)

Ah, OK. But wait.. you stated earlier that these methods like those of psychedelics are not means of direct truth?

Actually, no I could speculate that this is what entheogens can do. On a personal level they definately do. But I also acknowledge the meanings can be misinterpreted, I could be wrong. Unlike this self proclamation of fact that is a tautology. This is a sign of indoctrination Into dogma, Secret techniques that promise the separation from mere mortals. To know absolute truth without a doubt no less. How could you ever be wrong?

Sorry mate, this is Just more of the same. I don't buy it. It is exactly the same situation in martial arts. Until they get in the ring. :)

Yes just as you mention.
"The Siddhis are born of birth, drugs, mantras, penance or Smadhi. (IV-1)"
It is directly tied to entheogens, there is no doubt!

Not soma being reffered to here I believe, something else. But it is deeper than that. I think it is mentioned over a hundred times in the rig veda. Soma was the heart and soul NO LESS! and not considered a lower form of psychism at all but a god in its own right!

Personally meditation is great. Does things psychedelics can't, psychedelics take you places meditation can't.

Why cant you accept this?

I think it is for the same reasons as other religions do, no different. Where do you draw the line, do you accept a polytheistic hindu view? And quite personally I think your views contradict the facts that entheogens, the soma tradition was the very heart of what you are defending!

I mean millions and millions of people have been suckered by the Maharishi and the illusory mystical allure of the east. And still are. But hey man, don't grind an axe, it's cool. Yes ignorance is bliss. Cult members are usually quite certain too. The myth of the enlightened guru has taken a flogging over the last few decades, with many self proclaimed gurus being caught in all sorts of scandalous behaviour and depravity.

There have been people who have given up everything including a substantial part of their lives following these false prophets.

And thanks very much for the admission.

"Just because you or I don't know anyone personally who might be able to do this doesn't mean such people do not or did not ever exist."

Well then... it is an empty argument. I guess no yogi can be said to produce the Upanashads either. You say only lower forms are possible from entheogens! That is a joke. You have no proof or experience to make that statement have any meaning at all, it come s from biases quite clearly.

Earlier in the thread you made this claim.
"If you want to be able to permanently go back and forth amongst the worlds (or planes) then you need a more stable foundation".

So you can travel between planes of existence huh? But don't actually know anyone who can do it? What is this then Don?

Good grief Charlie Brown. You are not fooling this fool. The mask has fallen off Don.

It may be that the ancient text refer to these experiences in relation to the sacrements. And that is what researchers are indeed finding. Hell they just outright say It in the Hindu texts It is not speculation Don. I suggest you investigate the roots of your religion. Soma was NOT considered a lower form of psychism. Are you sure you have the right religion here?
 
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On the other side of the coin there is clearly a connection to the alchemical philosophy and the ancient mystery schools. It is not all rubbish, you just have to wade through a lot. The primal alchemical process Is what they emerged from in my opinion. And is backed by growing research. The references to the state of annihilation, and the kabbalistic kiss of death, and the symbols of the crucifiction are I believe referring to the destruction of the ego. Because the ancient sacriments were still in use, and mostly kept for initiates alone.

It is also my opinion that only empty shells remain. Doctrines just empty words, and not written by the broken tusk of ganesh or anything like that. There also remains pockets of this old alchemical way.

The enlightenment like that of the buddah is a pipe dream. Losing attatchments to all things here including relationships defies what this place is for IMO. Like sticking your head in the sand. The buddah had to die, if there even was one.

I also think a kundalini awakening is a real effect and can be invoked naturally although still very much physical, and can even happen spontaneously apparently. Although I dispute the term natural, if you think external molecules are unatural then you should stop breathing and eating for your spiritual practise. I know kundalini effect it is very rare. I know the reports sound exactly like aspects of psychedelics. I believe psychedelics can invoke it. I believe I have experienced it. I also think the physiological markers will appear to be the same.

Don already knows this, he did a survey,
http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/kundalini_survey.html

Meaning far more people having this experience without a guru. But then it must something illusory or fake, you know, because the mystical power is only available to the special disciples of some doctrine or another! But we don't actually know of any apparently.

It's cheating, or too easy or some bullcrap like that. For some reason that appears to be based in dogma. Oh boy, if that is the case you have no clue.

So called natural kundalini will remain a rare phenomena, accidental for some and an extremely rare skill for very few, but I do not know any and can't confirm any at all, probably because the techniques are watered down fragments of the past and often completely fraudulent! It is actually just a term for the ecstatic experience in all religions. It is not some special thing exclusive to yoga.

There is also self dellusion with peoples strong desire to get there and fooling themselves into thinking they have, from hyperventilation, endorphans and a natural high. Oh my gosh kundalini is rising!

Without ever confronting the demons within of course, that bit is too hard or just not interesting apparently.
 
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How about Yogi Bhajan? Another fraud. He brought Kundalini yoga to the west. same story, people are still apparently benefitting from phony inventions from conmen. There is an excellent expose available from a man that spent 30 years with him. Yep, another money grubbing pervert liar!

Yes kundalini yoga is also a con. But hey people still do it and believe it. It took thirty years for one man to discover the truth, how does one know they are not just delluding themselves?

Well I could make a few suggestions beyond researching the literature. :)
 
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I agree, I once wrote
http://forum.mind-energy.net/forum/...man-consciousness-podcast?p=155354#post155354


Quoting Don's post again

This definately comes from meditation. When your mind is 100% focused on one object, your mind is not thinking about attachments and aversions, you have no desire for anything to be different than it is, and you see that everything is perfect just as it is.

Yes, I can do that walking down the street.

The experience I refer to is like being in the presence of God. Nothing, nothing on this Earth can even compare.
 
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Here is what else is promised by sadhana, meditation and yoga.
  • Aṇimā: reducing one's body even to the size of an atom
  • Mahima: expanding one's body to an infinitely large size
  • Garima: becoming infinitely heavy
  • Laghima: becoming almost weightless
  • Prāpti: having unrestricted access to all place
  • Prākāmya: realizing whatever one desires
  • Iṣṭva: possessing absolute lordship
  • Vaśtva: the power to subjugate all
Yeah, good luck with that. Got to love the power to subjugate all. How very spiritual. I suppose this is just superstition and everything else, ( except of course the actual drug references and the many fraudulent gurus) is all above board and capable of generating true spirituality.

Hey I am just teasing, but common does anyone actually believe this?
 
Be warned, Kundalini Yoga is fraudulent.

http://special.registerguard.com/cs...927-57/yogi-khalsa-bhajan-leaders-members.csp

Go ahead, research it. Do not be a dreamy eyed follower. This is nothing more than a cult. Some have wasted decades in a scam.

What is hillarious is that proponents will tell you of there kundalini awakenings and even the science behind it.

Oh and how entheogens are not true methods. And can't compete with the blaa blaa blaa of the fake, money grubbing, perverts. While of course never knowing anything about it beyond having a tab or two back in the day, or a bit of salvia and seeing a few nice visuals and icons. Knowing nothing of the actual transformative shamanic journey and the process of ego death, its meanings and the unbroken chain of primal knowledge that predates recorded history In many indigenous cultures.

Well what can I say? Except you have been decieved and suffer from cultural delusions while spending possibly decades for the tiny chance of a few moments of ectastic bliss. But most do not get anything at all except what they imagine and convince themselves of.

Don does not know anyone who can accomplish the same states, I don't either, can't confirm a single kundalini experience. But still claims to be able to move between planes of existence. Manjit spent decades, and had an experience about ten years ago.

I went through the same process but found exactly what I was looking for. And then the new agers come out and tell me otherwise And there are much purer and stable methods. Somewhere, somehow, there must be people just because we don't know any does not mean they do not exist. Lol.

So please tell me what is wrong with this picture? Do you see it?

http://www.academia.edu/4343215/From_Maharaj_to_Mahan_Tantright._Construction_of_Yogi_Bhajan_s_Kundalini_Yoga

ABSTRACT
This article will detail the influences upon and construction of Kundalini Yoga as introduced,taught and propagated in the West by Yogi Bhajan (1929-2004), by delving into the lost historyof the practice’s earliest years through previously neglected sources such as its documentationin rare early texts and interviews with early students and associates. As opposed to the officialhistory of Kundalini Yoga that claims it as an ancient and secret tradition prior to Yogi Bhajan’sopen teaching of it, this article argues that it was a bricolage created by Yogi Bhajan himself andderived from two main figures: a hatha yoga teacher named Swami Dhirendra Brahmachari(1924-1994) and the Sikh sant Maharaj Virsa Singh (1934-2007). It is the aim of this article toprovide clear evidence as to what Yogi Bhajan’s Kundalini Yoga is and what it is comprised of,put forward the historical and cultural context in which it was developed and presented by YogiBhajan, and ultimately offer possible conclusions that could be drawn from this revisedunderstanding

Plenty of humble pie to go around. Dig in.
 
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http://kumaremovie.com

Some people were pissed at this movie calling it an immoral deception. Kind of funny when you think of the massive organisations still standing on known frauds.
Except the underlying message of the film is positive. Find the guru within. People did have positive benefits from the message of this ordinary man playing a role. This is how it works. It is an illusion.
 
The guru is greater than God! Can you believe it? Think this is a joke? No they are quite serious.
The detachment from all things including emotion ultimately leads to abuse, cruelty and immoral behavior. This is the pattern. The complete opposite of true spirituality.

The single most important thing that entheogens have taught me is that love is the ONLY thing that matters. The same message of the Christ apparently. This aspect is more important than attaining altered states. But it is what the altered states have shown me. The Hindus do not even acknowledge this at all. How is it a drug can show me something so important and yet these men discover no such thing in there altered states?

Which one is true do you think? Which method has shown the truth? Is my revelation false or imaginary?

The Hindu guru is only interested in self gratification and personal power. The subjugation of all as one of the promised supernatural powers no less.
An old but extremely illuminating film.
 
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The guru is greater than God! Can you believe it? Think this is a joke? No they are quite serious.
The detachment from all things including emotion ultimately leads to abuse, cruelty and immoral behavior. This is the pattern. The complete opposite of true spirituality.

The single most important thing that entheogens have taught me is that love is the ONLY thing that matters. The same message of the Christ apparently. This aspect is more important than attaining altered states. But it is what the altered states have shown me. The Hindus do not even acknowledge this at all. How is it a drug can show me something so important and yet these men discover no such thing in there altered states?

Which one is true do you think? Which method has shown the truth? Is my revelation false or imaginary?

The Hindu guru is only interested in self gratification and personal power. The subjugation of all as one of the promised supernatural powers no less.
An old but extremely illuminating film.
Hey Buddy!

You know I will not disagree with one thing you said in the series of posts above! Reality is like an infinitely multi-faceted jewel. Each perspective has some value. And that is the key: there is some value in each perspective.Similarly, there is some falsehood in each perspective. Wheat and chaff, ying and yang, up and down, Larry, Moe, and Curly. You know the drill. While I would love to engage you more fully, my karma is such that, at the moment, I just don't have the time. Just know that you are one of my favorite people to talk to precisely because of the extremely rich diversity of what you have to offer. Thank God for people like you, is all I can say at the moment.

In all friendship and comradery,

Don
 
Hey Buddy!

You know I will not disagree with one thing you said in the series of posts above! Reality is like an infinitely multi-faceted jewel. Each perspective has some value. And that is the key: there is some value in each perspective.Similarly, there is some falsehood in each perspective. Wheat and chaff, ying and yang, up and down, Larry, Moe, and Curly. You know the drill. While I would love to engage you more fully, my karma is such that, at the moment, I just don't have the time. Just know that you are one of my favorite people to talk to precisely because of the extremely rich diversity of what you have to offer. Thank God for people like you, is all I can say at the moment.

In all friendship and comradery,

Don

Ok Don, I appreciate the sentiment here. Of course I agree. But I also appreciate being true to yourself. So a little disapointed. This is not representative of your earlier statements of fact.

The simple truth is you do not have any basis for your claims really, your truth is not my truth or THE truth. It just sounds like another of the fake gurus pointing to the true way that is written in a doctrine, or a preacher quoting a bible verse as truth, and not from any actual self realization.

It is just so phony.

Yoga is great for the mind and body, where you step over the line is claiming the ability to move between planes of existence as a result of it. Where you step over the line is claiming there are better ways without actually experiencing them! Or even knowing anyone who can. You only make those statements because of a belief and nothing else. This is absolutely stunning to me. Unbelievable!It is clearly preconditioning in action. Feel free to retract when ever.

The sacraments were and are used to deepen the other methods and were the primal precursor. The original way that was universal extending back to the very beggining and when the actual real mystery schools flourished, not the twisted relics.

The true shaman can use the state to diagnose and heal even severe conditions. A psi application. Harmaline was originally called telepathine. A shaman is a healer, not a priest or a guru, the skills are not for personal power But a true spiritual application. Talk about the siddhis, this is there bread and butter.

You cannot just pop an acid and replicate this! It is an art, a skill. Navigating the waves of emotion and the dark recesses of the mind is an art. This is why it is not just about a substance! And yes meditation absolutely can help with this.

I mean lets face it yoga is a mega world wide industry, millions and millions of people doing it. where are all the enlightened ones? Where are all the people talking about these incredible spiritual experience beyond the level of entheogens as you say? I would think that on the scale it is, it would clearly manifest. But it is just not there. It does not add up.

As I said, it is not a question of one or the other, but entheogens offer a clarity devoid of preconditioning once the ego is dissolved and WILL enhance your understanding of other ways creating a far more effective combination even if used purely for insight.

I hope you find what you are looking for. And clarity which is usually a stripping away rather than addition of knowledge. Just a friendly hint.

Sorry for my harshness, consider it tough love.

Namaste. :)

To add I just noticed your post in another thread on the success of yoga, that it may take lifetimes for actual true joining! Personally I plan for this lifetime and not the next. That strikes extremely close to being useless to me, or as an excuse to explain why millions only receive mental and physical health benefits with no profound experiences at all.

The joining is the same goal as the alchemist, I am honestly quite sure I have already experienced it, as I have mentioned like being in the presence of God. Unimaginable! If that is not it, I do not care. Nothing on this Earth even comes close. I cannot express just how powerful it is, or put it in any words that could explain it.

It has happened only a handful of times out of hundreds. It takes work.
 
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I have turned this into an ugly thread, it is extremely annoying when people impose there dogma and belief systems, and advertise. I am flawed, I know that, I just cannot let it ride, a better person would just ignore the ignorance in this thread.

Hopefully this might help with some understanding.

Quotes from Don Juanito from "The Shaman's Last Apprentice"

"Your destiny and the destiny of every living being is to be who you truly are; Devine beings full of love and light. Your purpose, and the purpose of every living being is to heal, serve and love unconditionally in your own unique way"

"The way of the shaman is to accept each day and each moment as you find it. Do not try to control it but flow with it, knowing that your higher self is guiding you towards who you truly are"

"The ancient people learned that in order to survive they had to live in harmony with nature by following this way we have existed for many thousands of years"

"True shaman first learns to heal themselves before they can heal others. This is Ayahuasca’s gift."

"Ayahuasca: She is the mother of all medicine. A tool to help you find yourself, to know yourself, by destroying the image of who you think you are, and illuminating the truth. The knowledge that you can acquire from Ayahuasca is not imparted from the great cosmic serpent, or from a source outside yourself. This is an inner journey, where only LOVE and FAITH can GUIDE YOU."

"Ayahuasca is alive. She is a living organism that has the ability to understand and communicate with every animate object in the natural world."

"Soon it will be time for Mother Nature to take charge once again, she has been patiently waiting for us to WAKE UP, but she cannot wait much longer. This is what Ayahuasca has told many shaman."

"The only positive energy that truly exists is love. And the greatest expression of that is loving yourself."

How anyone can think it is unatural is beyond me. It is the very essence of nature that speaks.
So sad, it really is. Such a gift that is denegrated to the level of being called an external agent.

Such a crisis of consciousness, she is here to help.
 
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Ok Don, I appreciate the sentiment here. Of course I agree. But I also appreciate being true to yourself. So a little disapointed. This is not representative of your earlier statements of fact.
Yoga is great for the mind and body, where you step over the line is claiming the ability to move between planes of existence as a result of it. Where you step over the line is claiming there are better ways without actually experiencing them! Or even knowing anyone who can. You only make those statements because of a belief and nothing else.
.

Have you read DO_OBE? I explain how to do it there. In yoga, this is called pratyahara.

Best,
Don
 
Well if you can OBE that is impressive. But Don, this is not what should be sought. Are you saying you are leaving your body at will? I think what you speak of can actually be done in a deprivation tank quite easily. The visions can become quite vivid. I have used other ways as well. This is nothing like the experience I am talking about.

I am sorry to take such a hard line with you. We actually agree more than we do not. Our difference is that I believe these things were all born from a time when there was no separation between spirituality, medicine, alchemy, cosmology and nature. That your tradition and religion was born of a much older way. This is more than just my opinion or speculation.

And of course that enheogens are not up to a standard that only seems to verge on myth, but the myth has truth in its archaic roots Of entheogen use.

There are simple men and woman who live most of the time in these realms, they use the knowledge they gain to extract medicine from the living flow of life they are entwined in. They are intimately connected with the living world around them and the realms of the spirit. They see no separation between, they do not think of the body and mind in the commonly perceived way. A good percentage of modern medicine was copied, borrowed or stolen from the knowledge they obtained through there communion with these realms. You are saying that they can't do what your guys do, because it is but a glimpse, will turn on you, is an external agent, is not written down perhaps. It is none of this, or actually any of the things you say it is with such authority. It is a little jeuvenile and ignorant and is from a western perceived view of psychedelic use and not from its source.

Your Yoga is not making you aware of these things, these are your demons that I can see in your words.

Nothing has the ego disolving qualities like that of ayahuasca and psilocybin it is not the same. I speak of these because I know these from experience very well. It is not just a glimpse, it is not any of the things you say it is. The proof is in the pudding. No one can spontaneously produce what these things can deliver, it is of a different quality, A personal quality. They shred the illusion to show the real you. It is not about seeing entities or any of the other showy stuff, like that amatuer was looking for. They are a gift, and possibly even responsible for the spark of consciousness that exploded in primal man as evidenced in cave art and explosion of expression. They are here for a reason.

You want Yoga to be the answer, it is not. Not anymore than any other way or any other religion.
Entheogens are not the answer either, but they can illuminate the way by shredding the illusion. Then you can choose the way that is best for you.

This whole thing is ridiculous, Yoga, Quai gong and meditation are also taught at some retreats in the Amazon. The Shipibo people have one.

It is not a question of this or that, done correctly it can only enhance whatever effects the other ways offer, this macho thing about how "true" master do not need external agents is just ignorance and bias.
 
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Last night I had ANOTHER round of sleep paralysis. I felt like I was vibrating and being "pushed" down. It was as if a big crate was sitting on me. Usually I get the feeling of muscle weakness and sometimes "floating", but the vibration and being "pushed down" feeling is rare.
 
In April 2004, I traveled on assignment to the Peruvian Amazon to take a “shamanic tour.” I was contracted to write an article for a major American publication about the growing interest in “New Age tourism” in the West. During this assignment, I experienced ayahuasca for the first time.

Before the trip, I had absolutely no idea what ayahuasca was aside from what little I’d dug up on the internet: the name was shorthand for a kind of special tea made from various boiled Amazonian plants. People claimed that the drinking of this concoction had resulted in profound physical, psychological, and spiritual healing. Specifically, members of the UDV church of Brazil regularly use ayahuasca as a sacrament during services, and there have been scientifically documented reports of their being cured of depression, addiction, anxiety disorders, and the like. Still, due to the visionary properties of the brew, ayahuasca is banned in the U.S.

During the tour, I participated in five ayahuasca ceremonies. The morning after my third ceremony, I immediately became aware of some uncanny results: the major depression I’d had my entire life, ever since I was a young child, was completely, unaccountably, gone:

It was as if a water-logged wool overcoat had been removed from my shoulders. There was a tangible, visceral feeling of release. I noticed that the nature of my thoughts had completely changed. There were no more morbid, incessant desires to die. Gone was the “suicidal ideation” that had made joy seem impossible for me, and made my life feel like some kind of punishment. I actually woke up in that hut in the jungle of Peru desiring only to live. Wanting to live. Feeling hope for the first time in my life. It was, without a doubt, miraculous.

Privately, I continued to go down to Peru to work with the shamans and to receive more healing through Blue Morpho Tours. Physical and psychological ailments that had long burdened me—anxiety disorders, OCD, migraines, knee joint pain, PTSD, etc.—vanished one after the next and never resurfaced. A friend of mine, commenting on the “obvious changes” she saw in me, went down to Peru to try it herself, and she experienced similar results. She went on to tell her friends, and soon there was a small circle of us who had experienced it for ourselves and who knew. That circle continues to expand. More and more people, who once believed they would have to suffer from conditions like depression for the rest of their lives, have found a cure through ayahuasca.

Ayahuasca would remain my best-kept secret until the summer of 2005, when my editor at National Geographic Adventure magazine convinced me to write about my latest trip to Peru. Never expecting him to publish what I wrote, I gave him a very honest, in-depth account of my ayahuasca experiences and how they had changed my life. Though the essay contained all the background material that the previous publication had cut, to my great surprise my editor not only kept it in, but saw that the piece was published as the issue’s big feature story.

That article, entitled “Hell and Back,” appeared in the March 2006 issue of National Geographic Adventure. It would go on to become the most popular article the magazine had ever published, bringing in “20 times more reader response mail” than any previous article. Maybe the West was ready to hear about ayahuasca after all?

http://www.kirasalak.com/Ayahuasca.html

In 1993 Dr. Grob launched the Hoasca Project, the first in-depth study of the physical and psychological effects of ayahuasca on humans. His team went to Brazil, where the plant mixture can be taken legally, to study members of a church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), who use ayahuasca as a sacrament, and compared them to a control group that had never ingested the substance. The studies found that all the ayahuasca-using UDV members had experienced remission without recurrence of their addictions, depression, or anxiety disorders. In addition, blood samples revealed a startling discovery: Ayahuasca seems to give users a greater sensitivity to serotonin—one of the mood-regulating chemical produced by the body—by increasing the number of serotonin receptors on nerve cells.

Unlike most common anti-depressants, which Grob says can create such high levels of serotonin that cells may actually compensate by losing many of their serotonin receptors, the Hoasca Project showed that ayahuasca strongly enhances the body’s ability to absorb the serotonin that’s naturally there. “Ayahuasca is perhaps a far more sophisticated and effective way to treat depression than SSRIs [antidepressant drugs],” Grob concludes, adding that the use of SSRIs is “a rather crude way” of doing it. Ayahuasca, he insists, has great potential as a long-term solution.
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To add to this, there will be and are physiological and nuero chemical changes occurring in any mystical experience. longterm use results in enhanced ability to modulate the neuro transmitters. Hardly like turning on you! Hardly like diminishing returns! This is hogwash.

Meaning it will enhance meditation or any other way because the soul been healed and the body follows with the physiological changes that stay. The same areas of the brain are affected In meditation. Using aya will take a meditator to new levels over time, the receptors will increase. But beyond that just daily life is changed. We even have the physical markers.
 
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Ram Das aka Dr Richard Alpert was Timothy Leary's partner. From psychology to psychedelics then to folllw his spiritual path in India and given his name by his guru. It was psychedelics that opened his consciousness and sparked his spiritual journey.

His views on psychedelics after his spiritual journey are here....

DSN: Do you think that drugs continue to have a meaningful purpose? Or are they just an evolutionary stage you leave behind?

ALPERT: Istill find chemicals useful to me in different ways. I've been working with a chemical that is not on any list. It doesn't exist yet. I was in therapy this winter and my therapist gave it to me and it was a chemical that allowed me, really, to look at a lot of my personality psychodynamics from a more impersonal-space. And it was extremely useful to me.

I have found that every year or so to take something like LSD reminds me of what I forgot. There are certain kinds of toxicities that build up just from being part of a culture that are certain kinds of lock-ins or blinders that you oppose. And you take it like a physic and it just kind of cleans all the cobwebs away and "Oh, wow, I forgot that."

I don't feel an urgency to take it or an attachment to take it. Sometimes I don't even particularly want to take it. My guru's instructions to me were "If you're in a cool place and you're feeling much peace and your mind is turned towards God and you're alone, it could be useful." And I found that under those conditions, it is useful. I've taken it in other conditions and they've been a mixed bag. Sometimes it helps and sometimes not.

Now the milder psychedelics--hash and marijuana and stuff like that--I use off and on. I find, again, a mixed effect. I find that they, at times, will override certain kinds of inhibitory mechanisms in me and allow my mind to flow more freely and other times they will exacerbate my paranoia. Because a mild psychedelic isn't strong enough to override whatever is an existing pattern. So if you're in a really good space it'll take you into a better space; if you're in a bad space, it'll take you into a worse space. Powerful psychedelics do something else--they override no matter what. I mean I've taken intravenous LSD that didn't give a damn what state I was in, it just took me beyond it so fast there wasn't even a moment. You were just on the elevator going up to the Trade Building in New York and it was like--zap! It was out there.

But gentle psychedelics don't do that and Often I make the mistake, I still make the mistake, of being in a bad space and thinking that if I take a mild psychedelic, I can override it. And actually, all it does is exacerbate it, just makes it worse.

But the amount of psychedelics I use now to intensify sensual experience...unless somebody else initiates it, I don't do it. I'm still social enough that if somebody hands me a joint I'll smoke it, but I don't initiate it unless I really need to use it for something about my consciousness. I don't sit around my room smoking, in other words.

Interesting, and some good advice. It does not sound like Ram Das can do what psychedelics do even after his intense devotion and self discovery on his very worthwhile path. I really enjoy his message. His guru told him it can help under the right circumstances. This is were the shaman excells. The powerfully intense experiences Ram talks of are nothing to some of the carriers of this knowledge. It is what they do, sometimes several times a week. They are masters of navigating these spaces and are not overwhelmed as Ram Das is. Ram despite his experience here is still a novice compared to these people. It is childs play for them. There are some tibetan shaman who can navigate the insanity of large Datura doseages. Something I would never dare to do.

Unfortunately Ram still requires a psychologist? He had no concept of aya or its healing qualities. This is where much western psychedelic thought comes from. The 60's. Well that is false.

DSN: Over the centuries, drugs have played an important part in the formulation and practice of any number of religious and spiritual movements. What is it about the state of intoxication or transcendence that various drugs produce that appeals to the human spirit?

ALPERT: Well, historically, they have been parts of initiation rites and processes in which people have been able to go beyond the facade of their own minds in order to connect to the living spirit, to God, to living truth. We are much, much more than we think we are, and in order to function on this plane of reality, we get addicted to our thinking minds, which is our ego structure. We forget about our own divinity. We forget about this higher part of our being. Chemicals have been used traditionally to bring back that memory, to remember God, to reawaken--not only to remember intellectually, but to experientially remember--the living spirit. When we transcend any kind of limited framework of thought we also transcend standing in any place in time and space, so we start to have all kinds of not only feelings, but actual instances, of omniscience, omnipotence, all kinds of parapsychic phenomena, all the miracles that the bibles of the world refer to, those are all possible...I've lived in India too long to question any of that anymore. And these doorways are opened by the proper use of chemicals under certain conditions. In fact, in Patanjali Ashtanga Yoga, which is a very ancient form of yoga in India, drugs are considered one of the traditional vehicles--along with other techniques for plumbing the depths of being and for opening up the door to these siddhis, or psychic powers, or spiritual powers.

Psychedelics were traditionally used in opening these doorways.

Even in Dons very own specific vehicle, however not anymore, that aspect has been lost, and soma was actually lost before the inception of this system. And Patanjali's interpretation of vedic scriptures has been questioned.

Did a little research, the use of herbs in Patanjali was looked at as the abode of demons, with references to witches sorcery and potions that allow them to leave there body. (Gregor M Ashatanga yoga, practise & philosophy) This is a far cry from the reverence of the vedic soma. The witches herbs are very dangerous and scary. There is indeed a darker side to this.

Patanjali, the grammarian of second century B.C. recorded that even during his time some of the Vedic words were considered to be obscure. Sayana's interpretations of Vedic terms are also doubted by later Western as well as Indian scholars. Besides the language factor, Waradpande feels that the loss of the knowledge of Soma’s identity was through the decline of the Vedic ritual, the Yajna, which came about under the influence and development of Buddhism. (Waradpande, 1995)

However there is evidence it went underground evidenced in the begginings of buddhism.

Even at 200 bc it is still a relic, the knowledge was lost. But it has been alive and well for many thousands of years in cultures that are usually not included when speaking of spirituality or religion. With the mother of all medicines.

It is not a question of one or the other, why not both and more? Why not practise your chosen path and use them responsible and with great care as they should be, to shine a torch on your very essence and check every now and then to clear the cobwebs, heal and enrich your particular way, traditional or unique.
 
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Last night I had ANOTHER round of sleep paralysis. I felt like I was vibrating and being "pushed" down. It was as if a big crate was sitting on me. Usually I get the feeling of muscle weakness and sometimes "floating", but the vibration and being "pushed down" feeling is rare.

Hey Boo Boo,

I can't recall if I've read other posts of your on this forum where you mention you are practicing lucid dreaming / OBE techniques?

If you are, from experience and a lot of reading, it sounds to me like you are very, very close to a a full blown lucid dream/"OBE" !! If you keep at whatever you're doing, you should within a few weeks or months at most be able to have "freer" experiences.

I recall (a long time ago now!) feeling like I was walking through thick invisible quicksand, barely able to move my legs during my dreams.....this was just before I started having full blown lucid dreams without any restriction of movement. If I recall correctly, that, and the other symptoms you mention (similar to a "succubus" experience, during the "vibration" stage" etc), are considered classic "pre-lucid" experiences.....you're close! Good luck! :)
 
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