Retired USAF Officer 'Comes-Out' About His UFO Abduction

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chuck.drake

#21
So I guess a question that comes to mind is, if these stories are true, what would an alien society care about a bunch of egotistical humans that deliberately attempt to destroy themselves on a daily basis? I mean, what stake would they have in this planet other than a few ideas of either colonization, exploitation or experimentation? Is this all possibly part of something bigger that even the most twisted sci-fi writer could never come up with?
It could simply be that an entire population (or differing populations) of some other "dimension" has access to our physical reality. So there really is not a unified purpose behind what they do. There could be groups working to one purpose and individuals simply doing as they please. Imagine if we, as people of earth, had such seemingly unlimited access to another population. You would have some groups who may act in concert to stop the people of that world from blowing themselves to bits. You may have individuals who simply go there in order to cause havoc.
 
#22
These reports often remind me of time-slip type experiences. Considering the natural background patterns with which the imagery is frequently related (skies, clouds, woods, countryside). I do wonder whether some of these might be apparition/hallucinatory experiences from the future.
 
#23
One theory that crossed my mind is, considering the thoughts that brain is a filter and we have the possibility to reincarnate in other species (ie; aliens, per Nancy Danison I think in an interview at afterlifetv.com I saw), what if that race of aliens imparticular (we will call them Greys) have evolved beyond the filter? They are basically the pure consciousness, who choose to be in physical form to interact with their old human society to make things better for us or whatever it is they are doing. Without their filter, they remain in control of all past lifes and the information stream of the universe, along with psi powers I would imagine since they are known to speak telepathically.
Thats just a passing thought when I hear some of these things though, then poof its gone.
It reminds me of an old comic I read where it starts off with Benjamin Franklin and hes so smart and gives us all these great inventions and after he supposedly dies, he goes in front of this council of aliens. Its then revealed he himself is actually an alien sent to live among us and bring us technological advances and upgrades to our society. He goes on to tell them all the things he contributed to us and they basically belittle and ridicule him saying "thats the best you could come up with"? Im sure it was meant to be sarcastic, that even some of our most innovative ideas are so far behind what an alien civilization has technologically. Anyways, just thought I would share that for what its worth.
 
#24
http://www.openminds.tv/retired-usa...-ufo-cabal-and-his-abduction-experience-1190/

I have followed Robert Salas' career and the shut downs of nuclear missile bases as UFOs hover around them

It has been suggested that the UFO incursions are an anti-nuclear warning by ETs - so is an abduction something to emphasise this?.
Professor Robert Jacobs testimony of the classified missile experiment - when they saw a UFO shoot down the missile - is pretty interesting and convincing as well. He waited some 50 years before telling the story.

Professor Jacobs is a respected professor at a major US university. In the 1960's he was in the Air Force. He was the officer in charge of optical instrumentation and his job was to film ballistic missile tests launched from Vandenberg Air Force base in California.

In 1964, during a test of the first missile they filmed, they caught on film a UFO traveling right next to the missile. The film showed that from the UFO a beam of light was directed at the missile. The next day he was shown the film by his commanding officer and was told never to speak of this again.
I find this part of the testimony quite amusing, when he emphasize his experience and says around 4:40min into the clip: "-I don't give a goddamn what anybody else says about it,.....I saw it on film........ Phil Klass can kiss my ass, he wasn't there, I was" and "there are things that I know about that I won't talk to you about now because they're top secret and I could get my ass in trouble".

If you dont know who Phil Klass was, he were one of the most fiercest UFO-debunker ever, and he had the most ridiculous "explanations" and excuses for all UFO-cases he came across.

Watch Professor Robert Jacobs testimony here>>

Also read this>> http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Jacobs
 
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#25
One theory that crossed my mind is, considering the thoughts that brain is a filter and we have the possibility to reincarnate in other species...
I don't know, I'm stuck with issues of perception at present. Since looking at Celia Green and Charles McCeery's work on Hallucinations/Apparitions the idea of something 'inserted' into some objective view of the world starts to become problematic, but the alternative idea of a full 100% hallucination covering the whole field of view starts to make more sense.

Take just one type of case... where a mother, father and daughter are having lunch at home. The mother suddenly reminds the daughter she's going to be late for an appointment.The daughter collects her things and rushes off out of the front door, down the garden path, and turns out the gate. Noticing the wet leaves on the pavement, she remembers thinking to herself that she needs to be careful not to slip, and off she walks all the way down the street. The next thing she remembers are voices, her father, and waking up in hospital.

Now, from her parents perspective, watching her from window, what actually happens is that they see their daughter walk down the garden path, pass through the gate, slip, and fall, and not get up again. Where upon they rush out the house to help, and call an ambulance.

The interesting part for me, is that the daughter clearly remembers walking on down the street after turning out of the gate, something that never actually occurred, according to her parents and a passerby.

Applying similar hallucinatory ideas to 'some' of these UFO experiences does seem reasonable to me. That is not to say that some of these experiences are not real. I'm just illustrating the idea of hallucinations covering the full field of perception.
 
#26
I don't know, I'm stuck with issues of perception at present. Since looking at Celia Green and Charles McCeery's work on Hallucinations/Apparitions the idea of something 'inserted' into some objective view of the world starts to become problematic, but the alternative idea of a full 100% hallucination covering the whole field of view starts to make more sense.

Take just one type of case... where a mother, father and daughter are having lunch at home. The mother suddenly reminds the daughter she's going to be late for an appointment.The daughter collects her things and rushes off out of the front door, down the garden path, and turns out the gate. Noticing the wet leaves on the pavement, she remembers thinking to herself that she needs to be careful not to slip, and off she walks all the way down the street. The next thing she remembers are voices, her father, and waking up in hospital.

Now, from her parents perspective, watching her from window, what actually happens is that they see their daughter walk down the garden path, pass through the gate, slip, and fall, and not get up again. Where upon they rush out the house to help, and call an ambulance.

The interesting part for me, is that the daughter clearly remembers walking on down the street after turning out of the gate, something that never actually occurred, according to her parents and a passerby.

Applying similar hallucinatory ideas to 'some' of these UFO experiences does seem reasonable to me. That is not to say that some of these experiences are not real. I'm just illustrating the idea of hallucinations covering the full field of perception.
In the case you site, the daughter's experience could be seen as an OBE type experience. Her body went down but her consciousness continued. ?
 
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chuck.drake

#27
I don't know, I'm stuck with issues of perception at present. Since looking at Celia Green and Charles McCeery's work on Hallucinations/Apparitions the idea of something 'inserted' into some objective view of the world starts to become problematic, but the alternative idea of a full 100% hallucination covering the whole field of view starts to make more sense.

Take just one type of case... where a mother, father and daughter are having lunch at home. The mother suddenly reminds the daughter she's going to be late for an appointment.The daughter collects her things and rushes off out of the front door, down the garden path, and turns out the gate. Noticing the wet leaves on the pavement, she remembers thinking to herself that she needs to be careful not to slip, and off she walks all the way down the street. The next thing she remembers are voices, her father, and waking up in hospital.

Now, from her parents perspective, watching her from window, what actually happens is that they see their daughter walk down the garden path, pass through the gate, slip, and fall, and not get up again. Where upon they rush out the house to help, and call an ambulance.

The interesting part for me, is that the daughter clearly remembers walking on down the street after turning out of the gate, something that never actually occurred, according to her parents and a passerby.

Applying similar hallucinatory ideas to 'some' of these UFO experiences does seem reasonable to me. That is not to say that some of these experiences are not real. I'm just illustrating the idea of hallucinations covering the full field of perception.
So in the cases of UFOs interfering with nuclear weapons, deactivating them in some cases. You think that might be a hallucination? Or the Rendlesham Forest incident? Multiple witnesses?
 
#28
In the case you site, the daughter's experience could be seen as an OBE type experience. Her body went down but her consciousness continued. ?
Well I suppose that is a possible viewpoint from which to consider this case... I'm trying to stay open minded.
 
#29
I don't know, I'm stuck with issues of perception at present. Since looking at Celia Green and Charles McCeery's work on Hallucinations/Apparitions the idea of something 'inserted' into some objective view of the world starts to become problematic, but the alternative idea of a full 100% hallucination covering the whole field of view starts to make more sense.

Take just one type of case... where a mother, father and daughter are having lunch at home. The mother suddenly reminds the daughter she's going to be late for an appointment.The daughter collects her things and rushes off out of the front door, down the garden path, and turns out the gate. Noticing the wet leaves on the pavement, she remembers thinking to herself that she needs to be careful not to slip, and off she walks all the way down the street. The next thing she remembers are voices, her father, and waking up in hospital.

Now, from her parents perspective, watching her from window, what actually happens is that they see their daughter walk down the garden path, pass through the gate, slip, and fall, and not get up again. Where upon they rush out the house to help, and call an ambulance.

The interesting part for me, is that the daughter clearly remembers walking on down the street after turning out of the gate, something that never actually occurred, according to her parents and a passerby.

Applying similar hallucinatory ideas to 'some' of these UFO experiences does seem reasonable to me. That is not to say that some of these experiences are not real. I'm just illustrating the idea of hallucinations covering the full field of perception.
It is quite hard to value the sense of `realness´ of a memory. If I try to recall where I was driving a few days ago I would get a pretty good `memory-movie´ playing in my brain where I see the places I drove past etc.

Many NDE´ers though, claim to have that excessive feeling of `realness´ that when they compare it to a ordinary memory - and even their awaken daily consciousness of the now - they seem dull in comparison. The NDE was more real than their normal waken day.

I don't know if the abductees have the same sense of hyper `realness´ since many of their memory seems to be product of hypno-recollection many times. Maybe they have.
 
#30
So in the cases of UFOs interfering with nuclear weapons, deactivating them in some cases. You think that might be a hallucination? Or the Rendlesham Forest incident? Multiple witnesses?
There are plenty of reports of shared hallucination type experiences, some with imagery which is difficult to explain unless you consider full field visual hallucinations, and others where some people experience the hallucination, whilst others (also at the scene) don't.

I don't mean to imply the hallucination isn't real, I just think its difficult to argue that there is any 'qualitative' difference (as opposed to 'quantitative') between so-called objective perception, and hallucinatory perception.

These experiences at government installations, or large facilities (airports etc.) which take place against natural backgrounds intrigue me. For example objects are often seen against the sky, when seen above man made (non-natural) structures, or, often against trees or other natural backgrounds when experienced on the ground, or, often seen at night when background definition is lost.

I'm also likening these to hallucinations/apparitions where traditional repetitive haunting, also seem to occur in relation to the presence of old background patterns which still exist today, like old properties, old roads, memorable landscapes etc. Often these hallucinations appear to have strong emotional content associated with them.

I just think its worthwhile considering 100% full perceptual field hallucinations as part of any explanation... As I say, I'm trying to keep an open mind on these experiences.
 
C

chuck.drake

#31
There are plenty of reports of shared hallucination type experiences, some with imagery which is difficult to explain unless you consider full field visual hallucinations, and others where some people experience the hallucination, whilst others (also at the scene) don't.

I don't mean to imply the hallucination isn't real, I just think its difficult to argue that there is any 'qualitative' difference (as opposed to 'quantitative') between so-called objective perception, and hallucinatory perception.

These experiences at government installations, or large facilities (airports etc.) which take place against natural backgrounds intrigue me. For example objects are often seen against the sky, when seen above man made (non-natural) structures, or, often against trees or other natural backgrounds when experienced on the ground, or, often seen at night when background definition is lost.

I'm also likening these to hallucinations/apparitions where traditional repetitive haunting, also seem to occur in relation to the presence of old background patterns which still exist today, like old properties, old roads, memorable landscapes etc. Often these hallucinations appear to have strong emotional content associated with them.

I just think its worthwhile considering 100% full perceptual field hallucinations as part of any explanation... As I say, I'm trying to keep an open mind on these experiences.
Cool.
 
#32
Applying similar hallucinatory ideas to 'some' of these UFO experiences does seem reasonable to me. That is not to say that some of these experiences are not real. I'm just illustrating the idea of hallucinations covering the full field of perception.
Cogent, reasonable and well exemplified. The complication afforded however by stipulative and predictive-only evidence chains, such as is the case with hypnagogic and hypnopompic/hallucinatory psychology based explanations, is that they 1) do not falsify the antithesis or competing hypotheses, and 2) once the stipulative explanation has been falsified as being comprisingly explanatory, then the stipulative hypothesis simply becomes a distraction and an excuse which can be whipped out as a force-to-conform counter argument in any circumstance, despite the stipulative or predictive theory already having been falsified as comprising all observation sets.

For me, in discovery science, once a theory has been falsified as comprising all sets of observations, then it is set aside in the hypothesis reduction hierarchy. To continue to run further predictive tests to support that theory, or to tender it as an excuse to brush off having to do further observation research on new data, does not follow sound science.
 
#35
There are plenty of reports of shared hallucination type experiences, some with imagery which is difficult to explain unless you consider full field visual hallucinations, and others where some people experience the hallucination, whilst others (also at the scene) don't.

I don't mean to imply the hallucination isn't real, I just think its difficult to argue that there is any 'qualitative' difference (as opposed to 'quantitative') between so-called objective perception, and hallucinatory perception.

These experiences at government installations, or large facilities (airports etc.) which take place against natural backgrounds intrigue me. For example objects are often seen against the sky, when seen above man made (non-natural) structures, or, often against trees or other natural backgrounds when experienced on the ground, or, often seen at night when background definition is lost.

I'm also likening these to hallucinations/apparitions where traditional repetitive haunting, also seem to occur in relation to the presence of old background patterns which still exist today, like old properties, old roads, memorable landscapes etc. Often these hallucinations appear to have strong emotional content associated with them.

I just think its worthwhile considering 100% full perceptual field hallucinations as part of any explanation... As I say, I'm trying to keep an open mind on these experiences.
Folie à deux is, besides being utterly rare, a condition that often requires the inflicted to have an underlying psychosis for this to occur, and also very close bonds. The Folie à deux is also not linked to direct visual hallucinations but more in an agreement of wrong and delusional conclusions of what caused a somewhat mundane incident/situation. Like; "-There is mud on my shoes that wasn't there yesterday. Satan must have used them last night to bury children alive out in the field"
To pin Folie à deux to separate sightings of many different people together seeing a ghostly apparition is highly unlikely as an explanation. The same goes for UFO sightings.
 
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#36
Folie à deux is, besides being utterly rare, a condition that often requires the inflicted to have an underlying psychosis for this to occur, and also very close bonds. The Folie à deux is also not linked to direct visual hallucinations but more in an agreement of wrong and delusional conclusions of what caused a somewhat mundane incident/situation. Like; "-There is mud on my shoes that wasn't there yesterday. Satan must have used them last night to bury children alive out in the field"
To pin Folie à deux to separate sightings of many different people together seeing a ghostly apparition is highly unlikely as an explanation. The same goes for UFO sightings.
I agree that Folie à deux seem to have little in common with the hallucinations I referred to earlier.
 
#37
Ahhh, apologies Max; trying to be precise in my wording.

Once a theory has been shown to explain only some observations, it should be set aside in priority as it detracts from primary research.
Oh, I got it reasonably correct after all, but I still don't understand what your statement is in connection with?

It would be useful to define what you are referring to with regards to the actual '...theory...' you refer to, and how this '...theory...' only explains '...some observations...', and why you believe this '...theory...' is '...detracting from primary research...'?
 
#38
Oh, I got it reasonably correct after all, but I still don't understand what your statement is in connection with?

It would be useful to define what you are referring to with regards to the actual '...theory...' you refer to, and how this '...theory...' only explains '...some observations...', and why you believe this '...theory...' is '...detracting from primary research...'?
I was just responding in common to what Chuck Drake also asked.

chuck.drake said: (go to post)
So in the cases of UFOs interfering with nuclear weapons, deactivating them in some cases. You think that might be a hallucination? Or the Rendlesham Forest incident? Multiple witnesses?
Perhaps I was mistaken that you were proposing hallucinations, even in the case of multiple witnesses, as potentially explanatory of 100% of the field of perception? Like Chuck implied in his question, I interpreted your point to mean that possibly (although you were keeping an open mind), the database of observations was all explainable by hallucinatory theory. :)
 
#39
I'm coming it this from a different area. I've hardly studied the UFO subject in detail. From my recollection of those cases I've been exposed to, I've noticed that the the anomalous visual imagery recalled by the experiencer is often set against natural background patterns. So that the anomalous portion of the imagery is seen against the sky, against a natural landscape, against trees, or else at night when background patterns are not discernible.

I'm intrigued by patterns, meaning and memory. How we absorb external sensory data, and the unique pattern this external sensory data indirectly produces in our brain, and how we obtain meaning/memory from it.
 
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chuck.drake

#40
I'm coming it this from a different area. I've hardly studied the UFO subject in detail. From my recollection of those cases I've been exposed to, I've noticed that the the anomalous visual imagery recalled by the experiencer is often set against natural background patterns. So that the anomalous portion of the imagery is seen against the sky, against a natural landscape, against trees, or else at night when background patterns are not discernible.

I'm intrigued by patterns, meaning and memory. How we absorb external sensory data, and the unique pattern this external sensory data indirectly produces in our brain, and how we obtain meaning/memory from it.
In the Rendlesham case there were multiple witnesses, all US Air Force, and one fellow walked around the craft, taking notes and writing down symbols that were on the surface of the craft in a small notebook.
 
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