Rey Hernandez, Scientific Study of ET Contact and the Paranormal |412|

#61
To me, the real problem with the idea that UFO's are malevolent, is that clearly, they could destroy us more or less at will if that was their aim!

David
That’s right. Completely at their mercy. That’s extraordinarily unsettling. Unless there’s some cosmic force preventing large scale harm on us, it’s completely obvious that these beings could destroy us with the push of a button.

From our perspective, from a moral standpoint, it’s not okay to take somebody against their will and do as you please to them. Whether it results in a “positive” or “negative” experience is irrelevant. I get the feeling that some people feel that, “well they’re just trying to help and we don’t understand the complications of the matter.” Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not. But we can’t just believe everything these beings say or do. The whole phenomena has been fraught with an EXTRAORDINARY amount of deception and often outright ridiculous lies told to experiencers.

I’m not at all saying that I necessarily feel that these (some or all) beings are malevolent towards us. I doubt it’s that simple. What I would do is urge caution in automatically labeling these beings as good. I would urge the same caution in automatically labeling them as “bad.” But, people are being taken against their will, and some have horrifying experiences. And do these beings deserve our trust for any particular reason?

We also need to consider that there may be multiple agendas from multiple different ET’s. But, at a minimum, if we are dealing with multiple types of beings and agendas, they are AT LEAST seemingly complicit in with-holding absolute proof of their existence from the world.
 
#62
sorry I may have been writing / thinking in shorthand :) bottom line issue here seems to be whether or not we accept the light / love spiritually transformative ET contact as rey has outlined, or if we opted for the evil alien abduction storyline.

so as part of my skeptiko thing I like to press rey milab because it directly contradicts key aspects of the light and love alien space brother thing.
In my view, I think the bottom line is whether or not the contact modalities can be tested in terms of the proposed theory:

https://medium.com/the-foundation-f...ion-to-the-modalities-of-contact-2583604d04fe

Otherwise we have intelligent design where "god" hides or promotes evidence to insure the bible (or whatever text) is true.

As for the problem of evil, I suggest really thinking hard about friendly AI and how a super intelligence would design freedom into the universe. A small hint: our lives are very short, new agers believe we have lost access to who we really our / past lives. etc etc. Are you free if you cannot make a mistake?

Maybe god is still free in some sense we don't understand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe there is no god, just consciousness and an advanced civilization that has formed out of that. This earth is a testing grounds for human beings.

Bonus: how could god be friendly if he told you how and what to do every moment! ....<<<you see, the new agers have a point.
 
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#63
In my view, I think the bottom line is whether or not the contact modalities can be tested in terms of the proposed theory:

https://medium.com/the-foundation-f...ion-to-the-modalities-of-contact-2583604d04fe

Otherwise we have intelligent design where "god" hides or promotes evidence to insure the bible (or whatever text) is true.
I get/like the whole "contact modalities" thing... to a point... but I worry they are missing the bigger picture.

so yeah, there are commonalities re these phenomena... but our vantage point in coming to this conclusion may be clouding our judgement.

I'm going to be interviewing courtney brown in a couple months really like what he said here:

the extended consciousness realms were talking about may be closer to reality than our reality is to reality :)
 
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#64
Yes, Jesus probably might be institutionalized if he was to proclaim his truths to the multitudes of today's world. As might any true Christian should he or she insist on the reality of Angels or Angelic assistance granted such a person through a love of the Son of God and Gospel adherence. One is wise to keep such revelations to oneself.
 
#65
Yes, Jesus probably might be institutionalized if he was to proclaim his truths to the multitudes of today's world. As might any true Christian should he or she insist on the reality of Angels or Angelic assistance granted such a person through a love of the Son of God and Gospel adherence. One is wise to keep such revelations to oneself.
Don't forget that if you reply to someone, quote at least a bit of what they wrote - as I have done here. This makes it much easier for others to connect the conversation - and also alerts the person you are replying to, that they have a response.

David
 
#66
I get/like the whole "contact modalities" thing... to a point... but I worry they are missing the bigger picture.

so yeah, there are commonalities re these phenomena... but our vantage point in coming to this conclusion may be clouding our judgement.

I'm going to be interviewing courtney brown in a couple months really like what he said here:

the extended consciousness realms we are talking about may be closer to reality than our reality is to reality :)
OMG! You have courtney brown lined up? He asks some very interesting questions in his use of remote viewing. I remember sending Daz Smith an email once asking, basically, 'Why not try to discover something physical via remote viewing that is unknown?" Daz replied, 'ask courtney!" :(

You, alex, might reply 'that's already been done". But don't! Because it doesn't matter as no one else thinks so. That is my major point here.

All i gotta say there is that it couldn't hurt. The question might....but come on take a risk. No group is perfect. I think reputation might be the isssue there. Perhaps a private discussion to see where he stands? He obviously is a major believer. I mean, simply, finding good physical evidence that is trustworthy would be great! His targets are rarely, perhaps never like that!

I hope you are right about reality. Someone needs to fix it.
 
#67
OMG! You have courtney brown lined up? He asks some very interesting questions in his use of remote viewing. I remember sending Daz Smith an email once asking, basically, 'Why not try to discover something physical via remote viewing that is unknown?" Daz replied, 'ask courtney!" :(

You, alex, might reply 'that's already been done". But don't! Because it doesn't matter as no one else thinks so. That is my major point here.

All i gotta say there is that it couldn't hurt. The question might....but come on take a risk. No group is perfect. I think reputation might be the isssue there. Perhaps a private discussion to see where he stands? He obviously is a major believer. I mean, simply, finding good physical evidence that is trustworthy would be great! His targets are rarely, perhaps never like that!

I hope you are right about reality. Someone needs to fix it.
he's done a lot of targets... I think some of them fit what yr saying.
 
#68
he's done a lot of targets... I think some of them fit what yr saying.
I thought you might say that, so i'll switch tactics to try to better illustrate the point:


Experiencers bring back knowledge beyond their ken. Someone ought to find out what they know. I think you'll find they never know more than ordinary scientists. Knowledge doesn't get downloaded into us matrix style. Those who do understand advanced physics concepts who have no such background were already sophisticated -- i hypothesize.

There is no one communicating new energy technlogy, or propulsion technology, or how to solve our plastic waste problem in the ocean. Might the downloads lead to such a benefit? Possibly. But not directly. If hundreds perhaps thousands are being gifted knowledge, it would be useful to see it applied.

That doesn't belie how amazing it is of course, but it will remain unprovable. Always hidden by subjective experience and our lack of trusting each other.


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Also Rey says he has a photo of the UAP. Would love to see if he could share it here.

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Hey! it looks like the answer is coming in a book:


That was recorded in may of 2012, not 2017.
 
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#69
I thought you might say that, so i'll switch tactics to try to better illustrate the point:


Experiencers bring back knowledge beyond their ken. Someone ought to find out what they know. I think you'll find they never know more than ordinary scientists. Knowledge doesn't get downloaded into us matrix style. Those who do understand advanced physics concepts who have no such background were already sophisticated -- i hypothesize.

There is no one communicating new energy technlogy, or propulsion technology, or how to solve our plastic waste problem in the ocean. Might the downloads lead to such a benefit? Possibly. But not directly. If hundreds perhaps thousands are being gifted knowledge, it would be useful to see it applied.

That doesn't belie how amazing it is of course, but it will remain unprovable. Always hidden by subjective experience and our lack of trusting each other.


-----

Also Rey says he has a photo of the UAP. Would love to see if he could share it here.

-----

Hey! it looks like the answer is coming in a book:


That was recorded in may of 2012, not 2017.
I don't have much of a come back :) it would be great to know this kinda stuff. I could give some snappy answer, but bottom line is I don't understand how some of this stuff fits together.
 
#70
I don't have much of a come back :) it would be great to know this kinda stuff. I could give some snappy answer, but bottom line is I don't understand how some of this stuff fits together.
I respect that answer with a twinge of hope, skeptiko style, and look forward to the interview.

As for ideas fitting together, Whitley is a very talented author. The book, 'the key' is quite interesting and clearly borrows knowledge from mediums, or perhaps he was in communion with god this time! :)

------

From the conspiracy point of view, that book states what Tom Delonge has stated: the aliens are afraid of our nukes. But it gives a reason, stating death through nuclear detonation is chaos for the soul -- not a good death. A coincidence or the same playbook?!

Also, if you read it, is it not obvious its relationship to 'friendly ai' and consciousness being the ultimate technology? Why....that's us, in these bodies. Inprisoned in our bodies for our souls past deeds. The aliens probably orchestrated it.

And hey, wouldn't the powerful and wealthy want a war of the worlds? The aliens are trying to help us. After all, the darkness allows us to see the light of the stars.
 
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#71
From our perspective, from a moral standpoint, it’s not okay to take somebody against their will and do as you please to them. Whether it results in a “positive” or “negative” experience is irrelevant.
I get this POV, but it is predicated on an assumption that I challenge. However this challenge depends upon an acceptance of something that is not commonly comprehended, let alone accepted.

There is a necessary difference between what we think we can accept in our 'normal' state and what our 'soul' accepts on a deeper level. If we got back in the Skeptiko show list to an interview with Andy Paquette, who wrote a book called Dreamer, there is what he described as a kind of pre-incarnation negotiation about what life experiences are okay for us.

I came down with GBS in 2008, but I am aware that foreknowledge of this happening goes back to1985 when my then partner had cause to listen to a person had GBS tell his story, because she knew, back then, that she needed to know. Within 30 minutes of me collapsing she was asking the ambulance paramedics whether I had GBS. I heard her doing so while I lay paralysed on the floor.

I have significant residual disability from the GBS, but I have to say that had I a time machine and could got back in time and change the future I would not now change what happened.

I also believe I have had abduction experiences. On one level these traumatised me. On another they transformed me.

Did I assent on a deep level to these experiences? I believe I did. Had I been asked on 7 April 2008 whether I would assent to being radical paralysed, put on a respirator for 3 months and then obliged to undergo over 12 months of intensive physiotherapy only to be left with significant disability, I do not believe I would have assented to that. I do not believe my personality at the time would have been able to see the deeper wisdom.

On one level I have paid, and continue to pay a high price. But on another then whole experience has been transformative in a deep and powerful way.

We are not just who we presently see ourselves to be. We have a deeper nature that does make decisions that we have to live with. The 'I' we that we know is not the master of our destiny. And that's good thing, because, mostly, its an idiot.
 
#72
That’s right. Completely at their mercy. That’s extraordinarily unsettling. Unless there’s some cosmic force preventing large scale harm on us, it’s completely obvious that these beings could destroy us with the push of a button.
It is interesting how we think about this concern from a perspective that is tempered by the illusion of control, and the idea that we are in some way 'advanced' enough to be accorded some consideration - in the way we do not accord to other species. We think about "They could destroy us" as if such an act would be intentional - whereas we routinely send species extinct through neglect, carelessness and gross self-interest.

In the cosmic scheme of things we are as vulnerable as every other life form to the seemingly random agencies of the cosmos - everything from a virus to a comet. Imagining a particular agent of our demise is a kind of conceit - ET with malign intent versus a virus or a comet is just a conceit on our behalf.

We could equally imagine benign ET who will arrive like Santa Claus with gifts that ensure our salvation despite our manifest and persistent stupidities.

Or we could imagine a deeply wise agent who expresses neither extreme and who functions from a deep awareness that is beyond time and self-serving ego. This third option would retain the risk of destruction, because that belongs within the spectrum of possibility.

Christianity has given our culture a sense of being a 'special creation' that places us between reward and punishment, dependent on whether we are obedient and virtuous. In contrast there is a 3rd way - we evolve in consciousness. It is conceivable that ET might invade us and take over as colonisers - as we have done to so many. What should not be conceivable is that ET would 'destroy' us. That's a conceit - because it assumes a motive and an intent - a "push of a button". It is a conceit based on our model of conduct, not upon a rational apprehension of potential ET conduct. It assumes a random act of malign intent or neglect that is based entirely upon our our imagination.

Why imagine that what we imagine as a fearful thing is credible? We are routinely so wrong it is fair to say that if we imagine it, it will not happen.
 
#73
It is interesting how we think about this concern from a perspective that is tempered by the illusion of control, and the idea that we are in some way 'advanced' enough to be accorded some consideration - in the way we do not accord to other species. .
We have no idea what their motives/thoughts or psychology entails. That’s the scary part. It’s clear that they HAVE taken an interest and consideration in and of us. Whatever that entails for them psychologically and from a motives perspective we can only guess at. They’ve probably been interacting with us for much longer than we think. And they certainly haven’t attempted to exterminate us yet, nor do I think they will in the future. But under what pretense can we assume that they are loving and benevolant? Is there any reason for us to not fear being at the complete mercy of another far advanced race? Any reason at all? Should we be comfortable with that? The abduction scenarios are sometimes terrifying and tormenting enough as it is. You can feel that they won’t destroy or that they will destroy us. Both are essentially complete guesses because, as you said, we have no idea what their motives are. But What is a “rational apprehension of ET motivation?” What ET psychology textbooks do we have sitting in our libraries?

I don’t tend to think that they harbor I’ll will towards us. But it’s obviously enough to make one nervous.
 
#74
If aliens are real then they will win.

That being said, abductions involve claims of pregnancy and hybrid DNA.

What I do not understand is what the abductees really mean by being a hybrid. It would seem a plausible implication is alien DNA. Do they not mean that? IT would seem they do. They have clear memories. Its remarkable.

Skeptics deny multiple people seeing the same paranormal event of which alien abduction is one subtype. Please please someone tell me the hybrid claims have been tested. Just someone....it would help keep things grounded a bit.

Otherwise, my current hypothesis is mind control by humans. Not that its a good one. It just makes more sense. So perhaps nde's are separate phenomena -- some real, some fake, created by a nefarious and anonymous source.
 
#75
There is a necessary difference between what we think we can accept in our 'normal' state and what our 'soul' accepts on a deeper level.
ok, I've heard this enough to believe that there's some truth to it, on the other hand, there isn't much discussion after this. I mean, anyone who claims to have a "soul truth" or "divine knowledge" will carry with them the ultimate personal trump card that shuts down any investigation.
 
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#76
The owner of the 'NewRealities' channel commented quite clearly he believes there are real human / dna hybrids that have been tested. I want to point out this is not a super rare phenomena -- thousands are *implied* to be this way.

If they mean anamolous genetic code -- how much? Human beings are highly related, especially caucasians. The most diverse population of humans is in africa. There was a bottleneck thousands of years ago related to some apparent disaster.

Think how easy it would be to prove and shock the word. Think how clear-cut the evidence is. Think of how hard it would be to deny. Now look at our lives. I am willing to bet it's not true. At least not in the simple way of having extra dna.



But before worldwide massive ANOMIE sets in, we should at least get more than one dna test done. Its so easy to do. Spend 1000 bucks on the test and compare it for free. Its not hard.

My guess is that they will claim its hidden in the dna's regulatory functions. Ok. I give up as that won't be solved definitively.
 
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#77
ok, I've heard this enough to believe that there's some truth to it, on the other hand, this is really not much discussion after this. I mean, anyone who claims to have a deeper "soul truth" or "divine knowledge" will carry with them the ultimate personal trump card that shuts down any investigation.
I love the esoteric. It's in my username. It's also super frustrating.
 
#79
I get this POV, but it is predicated on an assumption that I challenge. However this challenge depends upon an acceptance of something that is not commonly comprehended, let alone accepted.

There is a necessary difference between what we think we can accept in our 'normal' state and what our 'soul' accepts on a deeper level
On one level I have paid, and continue to pay a high price. But on another then whole experience has been transformative in a deep and powerful way.

We are not just who we presently see ourselves to be. We have a deeper nature that does make decisions that we have to live with. The 'I' we that we know is not the master of our destiny. And that's good thing, because, mostly, its an idiot.
Death will change perspectives. Re-realizing our eternal nature requires acceptance that our egos on earth didn't matter other than to serve a purpose. I imagine we are much smarter after we die. I think that is a major secret of the other realm.

If the other realm likes to share knowledge, any question can be asked and answered quickly. That means our lives here are for soul development. Everything else is solved. Supposedly.
 
#80
Death will change perspectives. Re-realizing our eternal nature requires acceptance that our egos on earth didn't matter other than to serve a purpose. I imagine we are much smarter after we die. I think that is a major secret of the other realm.
Apparently we are smarter out of the body. I can't personally testify to this, but it is a claim repeated from various sources. I hope its true. The prospect of being less stupid deeply appeals to me.

Frank De Marco's 'Awakening from the 3D World' is, for me, an absolute gem on the transition from the physical to the metaphysical state of awareness.
 
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