Richard Dolan, UFO Disclosure, Toothpaste Out of the Tube? |438|

#21
Well that's part of my point--the interviewer did not address it. Pleae, David, let Alex address this as the question was addressed to him and he HAS listened.
And BTW David, I am spitting mad at your answering my question in a condescending manner and without having listened to the interviews. Now I am over it.
 
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#23
Alex said/asked - "What is the technology of the consciousness interface?" This is where Richard's story about the "a-ha" moment he had when feeding his dog where he saw the argument some make - [paraphrased] "How arrogant we humans are to think we are the pinnacle of intelligence whereby we can figure out everything." So on the one hand, we find ourselves requiring to know the details of a "how" to allow ourselves to actually believe we can do something.

Imagine a cave man having to know how he makes his body move into a position it can reach up and grab a berry from a tree to be able to do so?

But this is where we seem stuck now.
 
#24
So... TTSA - as a former odds maker by trade, I have learned to look at all possibilities my mind can derive, add a possibility set that is titled "none of the above" and weight each one as to what I think the odds are any of the listed possibilities are true (including the "none of the above").

Is TTSA a psyop. Studying the interview carefully, it is clear that Richard Dolan was considering the question by defining psyop as one thing and eventually it seemed Alex was considering the term in a much different (almost like a universal) context.

So I have two different sets of odds, one for Richard's definition of psyop and one for what it seems became Alex's intended definition. Before I state them, I am still not very clear as to what Alex may have meant... but here goes.

Richard's definition of psyop -

Is TTSA a psyop?

No - 95%

Yes - 4%

none of the above - 1%

Alex's definition of psyop -

Is TTSA a psyop?

No - 1%

Yes - 98%

none of the above - 1%
 
#26
I’m so glad you got Richard Dolan on! He’s the best researcher/author in Ufology in my opinion. Glad he was able to get Alex to budge a little on the notion that TTSA is “just” a psyop... they have stomped on the toothepaste tube.

I recently moved to Austin where Hal Puthoff’s Earthtech is located. I wasn’t sure if I’d have to find a new job or if I could work remote, so I messaged Puthoff and Eric Davis on LinkedIn asking if they had need of an engineer. I wasn’t really expecting a response but they both responded kindly that they would like to hire engineers and lab techs but there’s no funding. They were hoping to secure some long term steady funding but it so far hasn’t materialized. Eric recently left Earthtech to pursue other opportunities.

So TTSA has accomplished a lot but still seem to be struggling for support.
 
#27
lots to process there :) why has magic of so many indigenous cultures failed over and over? why did the good old-fashioned git-r-done colonialism of Francisco Pizarro so easily defeat the protector gods of peru?
I know it's popular in certain circles to romanticize the noble savage, but, IMO, doing so is to indulge in extreme fantasy. The indigenous magic fails because their gods and power is all low level stuff. The primitives are simpletons and they align with/co-create simpleton "gods". They don't "live in harmony with nature", etc, etc because they are wise and gentle. They do so because they are too stupid to accomplish what they would if they could. They are closer to animals than creative adventuresome humans; spending their entire lives doing things they way they have always been done in the same little patch of jungle they have lived in from time immemorial. They war and kill, take slaves, damage the environment, etc. They just do it on a less grand scale because they are not smart enough to figure out how to do it bigger. It's not a matter of moral superiority.

As for aliens, not saying this is what it is; just something that an open minded skeptic must consider - the UFOs are US military special weapons R&D...... So what if a certain team developed the technological ability to project an image (maybe like a holograph) that fighter pilots would see and chase like a cat on a laser pointer and simultaneously could hack radar systems, etc such that it would appear as if the image was a material object being tracked by all of that tech? The best way to test its effects would be to keep it totally secret and then see what happens when applied to our own personnel and technology. That way the effects could be studied in depth. This would be a powerful weapon in the event of a real war. Some of the reported psychological effects are just typical PTSD from mind-blown/paradigm shifted syndrome as opposed to aliens intelligences deliberately altering perceptions. Also, better to let people believe in real UFOs than to reveal the secret weapons program once the weapons system has been tested and the testing has leaked out. I mean what else are you going to do?

So called "alien abductions" are probably a whole different class of event(s); a bucket containing a lot of slop like hypnogogic imagery, sleep paralysis, misinterpretation of real OBEs, epilepsy, effects of intoxication, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, outright lies and hoaxes, urban myths and so on and so forth. At least these explanations deserve serious consideration.

The only expanded consciousness phenomena we can be certain are real - at least some times - are precognition, OBEs, NDEs, Life after death/ADCs and psi (and probably reincarnation). There's way too much noise and confusion around all the rest; along with viable very normal explanations.
 
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#28
Welcome back Eric!
I know it's popular in certain circles to romanticize the noble savage, but, IMO, doing so is to indulge in extreme fantasy. The indigenous magic fails because their gods and power is all low level stuff. The primitives are simpletons and they align with/co-create simpleton "gods". They don't "live in harmony with nature", etc, etc because they are wise and gentle. They do so because they are too stupid to accomplish what they would if they could. They are closer to animals than creative adventuresome humans; spending their entire lives doing things they way they have always been done in the same little patch of jungle they have lived in from time immemorial. They war and kill, take slaves, damage the environment, etc. They just do it on a less grand scale because they are not smart enough to figure out how to do it bigger. It's not a matter of moral superiority.
I am sure there is a lot of truth in that, but of course you could argue that they have 'engineered' ayahuasca and spiritual techniques in general.
As for aliens, not saying this is what it is; just something that an open minded skeptic must consider - the UFOs are US military special weapons R&D...... So what if a certain team developed the technological ability to project an image (maybe like a holograph) that fighter pilots would see and chase like a cat on a laser pointer and simultaneously could hack radar systems, etc such that it would appear as if the image was a material object being tracked by all of that tech? The best way to test its effects would be to keep it totally secret and then see what happens when applied to our own personnel and technology. That way the effects could be studied in depth. This would be a powerful weapon in the event of a real war.
That is an interesting concept that might explain one portion of UFO phenomena. Indeed whenever I read about UFO's that darted away at unbelievable speed I tend to think of optical effects that could look like that. However, that leaves the contact phenomena and the strange effects on consciousness - which might indeed have a totally different explanation.
Some of the reported psychological effects are just typical PTSD from mind-blown/paradigm shifted syndrome as opposed to aliens intelligences deliberately altering perceptions. Also, better to let people believe in real UFOs than to reveal the secret weapons program once the weapons system has been tested and the testing has leaked out. I mean what else are you going to do?

So called "alien abductions" are probably a whole different class of event(s); a bucket containing a lot of slop like hypnogogic imagery, sleep paralysis, misinterpretation of real OBEs, epilepsy, effects of intoxication, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, outright lies and hoaxes, urban myths and so on and so forth. At least these explanations deserve serious consideration.
In't that a bit like 'explaining NDE's using about 6 different explanations each tuned to a subset of the phenomena?
The only expanded consciousness phenomena we can be certain are real - at least some times - are precognition, OBEs, NDEs, Life after death/ADCs and psi (and probably reincarnation). There's way too much noise and confusion around all the rest; along with viable very normal explanations.
The list you have given certainly seems most certain, but if we take those as real, it rather skews the probabilities for everything else.
For example, I'd bet that in the fullness of time, many schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder cases will be seen as expanded consciousness at work.

David
 
#30
schizophrenia:

For example, I'd bet that in the fullness of time, many schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder cases will be seen as expanded consciousness at work.

David
If schizophrenia were due to expanded consciousness, would you expect the hallucinations to be veridical? And does expanded consciousness explain the other symptoms of schizophrenia such as:

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-symptoms#1

  • Delusions. These are beliefs that seem strange to most people and are easy to prove wrong. The person affected might think someone is trying to control their brain through TVs or that the FBI is out to get them. They might believe they're someone else, like a famous actor or the president, or that they have superpowers. Types of delusions include:
    • Persecutory delusions. The feeling someone is after you or that you’re being stalked, hunted, framed, or tricked.
    • Referential delusions. When a person believes that public forms of communication, like song lyrics or a gesture from a TV host, are a special message just for them.
    • Somatic delusions. These center on the body. The person thinks they have a terrible illness or bizarre health problem like worms under the skin or damage from cosmic rays.
    • Erotomanic delusions. A person might be convinced a celebrity is in love with them or that their partner is cheating. Or they might think people they’re not attracted to are pursuing them.
    • Religious delusions. Someone might think they have a special relationship with a deity or that they’re possessed by a demon.
    • Grandiose delusions. They consider themselves a major figure on the world stage, like an entertainer or a politician.
  • Confused thoughts and disorganized speech. People with schizophrenia can have a hard time organizing their thoughts. They might not be able to follow along when you talk to them. Instead, it might seem like they're zoning out or distracted. When they talk, their words can come out jumbled and not make sense.
  • Trouble concentrating. For example, someone might lose track of what's going on in a TV show as they're watching.
  • Movement disorders . Some people with schizophrenia can seem jumpy. Sometimes they'll make the same movements over and over again. But sometimes they might be perfectly still for hours at a stretch, which experts call being catatonic. Contrary to popular belief, people with the disease usually aren't violent.
 
#33
Why borderline personality disorder?
I'd add "Why schizophrenia?". I think David is not on safe ground here, but not entirely without ground either. Certainly Borderline Personality Disorder seems to be trauma induced from my experience, so I agree with your doubt here. Schizophrenia can be a misdiagnosis pertaining to uncontrolled spirit contact - but it is such a contested disorder it is not an easy theme to argue on unless there is agreement on cause and nature.

The history of uncontrolled psi experiences being diagnosed as a psychiatric disorder is long, but all that means is that schizophrenia might be, in some instances, simply redefined as a traumatic response to uncontrolled psi experiences. Other symptoms that are assigned to schizophrenia may not be that. It is not a safe thing to claim that something that has been misdiagnosed as schizophrenia might be an instance of "expanded consciousness at work" without the misdiagnosis caveat.
 
#34
Alex, I am upset from watching the first two Dolan-Bledsoe YouTubes. I stopped investiating experiencer accounts years ago after doing massive research on ufology, an endless labyrinth yielding--at that point--diminishing returns. I only listened to the Dolan-Bledsoe YouTubes b/c of your bringing them up in your interview, b/c I so respect your views. My upset is this: Chris' stating that he believes ET created us, are in charge ot us, and the like. I really don't have time to listen to two more of these YouTubes to see if Dolan addresses this controversial claim. So would you please let us know if this wild (IMO) claim comes up again in their final two interviews --and what you make of it. Merci buckets! (P.S. I was crazy about your interview, just not Bledsoe's take on the power / role of ET).
the idea that we are part of an ongoing genetic engineering project is not only widely reported in UFO circles, but consistent we many recent developments in genetic science.
 
#35
the idea that we are part of an ongoing genetic engineering project is not only widely reported in UFO circles, but consistent we many recent developments in genetic science.
Thank you, Alex. Your reply leaves me unconvinced, as a Ph.D. versed in the need for acquiring convincing evidence for hypotheses. That an idea is "widely reported" in "UFO circles" is far from authoritative. As for "recent developments in genetic science," can you please point me to them? P.S. I am not a close-minded sceptic, but rather a rigorous researcher.
 
#36
schizophrenia:



If schizophrenia were due to expanded consciousness, would you expect the hallucinations to be veridical? And does expanded consciousness explain the other symptoms of schizophrenia such as:

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-symptoms#1
Well if you imagine some sort of partial lifting of the veil, so that people become aware of other people and other connections, but without clarity, that might explain a mass of things. The extra information would simply be confusing.

Also, please note that I said, many schizophrenia cases.

BTW, I tried to quote Jim's post in full, to break it down, but the bullet points made that hard - does anyone know how to close a bullet point set?

David
 
#37
Thank you, Alex. Your reply leaves me unconvinced, as a Ph.D. versed in the need for acquiring convincing evidence for hypotheses.
If your PhD related to UFO's in some way, why not tell us more about what you discovered?
I stopped investiating experiencer accounts years ago after doing massive research on ufology, an endless labyrinth yielding--at that point--diminishing returns.
Was that research part of your PhD? What conclusions did you come to?

Isn't it possible that part of that "endless labyrinth" was generated by those tasked with hiding the full facts about UFO's. Your point would seem more valid in the days before the official admission that UFO's are of concern to the US military.

David
 
#38
Thank you, Alex. Your reply leaves me unconvinced, as a Ph.D. versed in the need for acquiring convincing evidence for hypotheses. That an idea is "widely reported" in "UFO circles" is far from authoritative. As for "recent developments in genetic science," can you please point me to them? P.S. I am not a close-minded sceptic, but rather a rigorous researcher.
Bruce Fenton, A Better Human Origin Story |429| - Skeptiko ...
and the accompanying forum discussion has many. feel free to post/comment there and I will reply.
 
#39
Finally finished... started at noon yesterday and with a break here and there, got 2/3rds through and went to bed near 11 PM - and then weirdly, after having a lengthy, vivid/lucid dream featuring a monster that I knew was there but would not come out then shifting into an attempt to escape a from what I concluded in the dream was aliens to a scene where I was with a group of people where one of them put me on his shoulders while he walked towards a group of "phenomenon manifestations" where I perceived that they perceived I had some sort of special ability to communicate with them; note in this last scene, I concluded the individual manifestations were "not each the same type of other worldly being" and each were some form of light manifestation, plasma thing, neon construction, all with form and movement... and this happened at 2:55 AM whereby I tried to sleep but couldn't and went to my office and completed the interview (took 3 more hours).

Why so long? I take notes, write down comments, stop/start/go back/, etc. It's like there's a me that seems to be in Alex and in Richard and then an independent me that wants to say, YES or... well, I understand but have you thought about this and sometimes I wish so bad I was there so I could throw out a thought it seems neither have considered (yet). I literally have a good 12 pages of highlights, thoughts, comments and this is just my first run through (I always strive to go through three times before I feel I've completed a full listen).

OK - so if I had to pin down three things... I would feature what I already posted as my favorite single line and favorite "verification" that Richard was comfortable (as of now) with holding the assumption that consciousness is at least "a fundamental" of reality.

But the next one on my top three is when he is honest as to his bias with regards to what has become the pointer phrase, "nuts and bolts" experiences over anecdotal (only) experiences if we have to label each as one or the other. I have a lot to say about that later but the importance in pointing this out is when Richard expresses his reasons why. The one that stood out the most (besides the obvious one - evidence and/or multiple witnesses seeing and describing the same thing) is what he calls the "unbalanced" individual telling their story. Alex jumps on that with the consideration that perhaps their appearance of being unbalanced has been caused by their experience.

I have spent the last three years exploring this very thing and I have an excellent subject that has worked closely with me during my exploration. I assessed the subject prior to my study with regards to their memories. Are most quite detailed? Is the subject able to articulate their experiences with regards to these details but also with regards to what they thought about them as they occurred, later in their life, and how they think about it today.

I have required that the subject be fully open and completely honest. In fact, I worked with this very subject heavily beginning in 2010 whereby I made the subject write, write, write besides just speak with me for the thousands and thousands of hours all and only to achieve a goal that without, the study would bear no fruit and thus be pointless. True - as perfectly as an imperfect person can be honesty.

This effort has resulted in no answers. But I haven't been disappointed because of what the results have produced. I can place the results in one of two categories. Category A - The revealing of unrecognized assumptions, assumptions that impact my (and the subjects) primary world view but also the sub-assumptions held within my (and the subjects) overall world view. Category B is comprised of questions which never had I considered before and can understand why based on what my Category A "bucket" held prior to various breakthroughs... meaning the B bucket continues to grow and the A bucket continues to diminish.

And my conclusion is that it is the questions that are the drivers of everything new and expansive. Assumptions, if treated for exactly what they are, can be helpful... but the minute an assumption becomes "fact" for the individual explorer, the fact is that whether or not the assumption is, indeed, a fact, ones route of exploration becomes more defined and definition can (and IMO always does) produce limitation. Don't conclude I am saying limitation is "bad" - that is for each of us to decide and change our minds about on our own as "bad" is, for me, ultimately subjective. Don't conclude I see "good and bad ET" or "good versus evil" as the hard core non-dualist is often perceived so to do (or as was exampled by pointing to Grant Cameron and Steven Greer).

My way of viewing things is by locating the point of view I am viewing from at that specific moment and considering that point of view in relation to what I am observing and/or considering, especially when it is a thought exercise.

I am working on the project of presenting my own "study" in relation to all the above. Maybe I complete it and release it before this body dies. I hope so but who knows. One thing about the subject - s/he definitely traversed the land of "unbalanced" during her/his journey. What was inspiring is that there have been junctures in this individual's journey where they seemed to achieve certain milestones which resulted in a shift in their appearance... a shift from producing a clear unbalanced impression to a more balanced impression. Yet, interestingly, the subject continued to experience things I really found hard to believe. But I also had multiple experiences with the subject where I observed what my mind immediately determining, "that can't happen." Then to, "how could that happen?"

I am still at "how can that happen" question and thankfully the more I discover limiting sub-assumptions, the more I feel I am getting closer to the answer - not in some way I can write down as a formula, more in that space created by an allowance for "inner silence." (thank you Skeptiko #436 - Don Hoffman)
thanks for this awesome post Sam. it syncs up with so many things I've been thinking about lately.

just watched:
Watch Witness of Another World | Prime Video - Amazon.com

the movie seems incredibly relevant to this discussion in that Juan's life is totally turned upside down by a contact experience which makes him"crazy"to most people in his life.But when he reconnects with his indigenous roots they immediately recognize his transformation as a gift. there's also a not-so-fast moment for me in that I'm not totally on board with the interpretation his little tribe in Paraguay gives to everything. so I think this gets at your two bucket analogy. are we destined to always carry both buckets?
 
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